Damage to the car - covered by Public Liability?
Discussion
Saturday night I was parked behind a Papa Johns store (was collecting a take away Chinese..yum) and while in the car, a delivery driver dropped 2 (full) large bottles of Tango which have dented my bonnet in 3 places and it no longer aligns with the wing.
From the back of the store, you have to then go along a walk way and down some steps to where cars are parked. At a guess, the bottles of tango probably fell 10ft before they were introduced to my immaculate bonnet.
The car is a Megane 265 Trophy, 1 of 50 and with the lidquid yellow paint (£1500 cost from the factory) so to replace the bonnet is not going to be cheap.
I have spoken with PJ head office who just passed it off to say it was nothing to do with them as it is a franchise. Spoke again today with the store owner who advised that he had tried but insurance will not cover it as it was outside the premises (about 2M from their back door). He again has spoken with the driver who says he knows it will be alot but he can't afford it, even if it was £100 he can't afford it.
So now it looks like i'm left to pick up the bill...
Surely public liability insurance would cover them? It was their staff, while working, carrying out work duties, in work uniform with Papa Johns stock?
Any one have any tips/suggestions?
Thanks,
Stephen
From the back of the store, you have to then go along a walk way and down some steps to where cars are parked. At a guess, the bottles of tango probably fell 10ft before they were introduced to my immaculate bonnet.
The car is a Megane 265 Trophy, 1 of 50 and with the lidquid yellow paint (£1500 cost from the factory) so to replace the bonnet is not going to be cheap.
I have spoken with PJ head office who just passed it off to say it was nothing to do with them as it is a franchise. Spoke again today with the store owner who advised that he had tried but insurance will not cover it as it was outside the premises (about 2M from their back door). He again has spoken with the driver who says he knows it will be alot but he can't afford it, even if it was £100 he can't afford it.
So now it looks like i'm left to pick up the bill...
Surely public liability insurance would cover them? It was their staff, while working, carrying out work duties, in work uniform with Papa Johns stock?
Any one have any tips/suggestions?
Thanks,
Stephen
Ask for the details of their PL insurer (may be displayed on the wall in the store) and contact them yourself to find out on what grounds they are refusing cover?
EDIT: To clarify the store manager/owner might be trying to fob you off - when s/he hasnt even spoken to them!?
I would doubt most motor insurers would be competent enough to pursue the PL insurer themselves for a recovery of costs, but if the claim is as large as anticipated then they might?!
EDIT: To clarify the store manager/owner might be trying to fob you off - when s/he hasnt even spoken to them!?
I would doubt most motor insurers would be competent enough to pursue the PL insurer themselves for a recovery of costs, but if the claim is as large as anticipated then they might?!
PL insurance will cover generally cover legal liabilities (clue is in the name) - but there are exclusions as they seem to be indicating.
You won't get a better settlement by involving the insurers than you would by suing the owner/employee directly - it's just easier.
There's no "strict liability" here - i.e. just cos he did something that damaged your car doesn't make him (or his bosses) automatically liable.
ETA - doesn't mean they aren't either - but all the insurance does is cover them if they are.
You won't get a better settlement by involving the insurers than you would by suing the owner/employee directly - it's just easier.
There's no "strict liability" here - i.e. just cos he did something that damaged your car doesn't make him (or his bosses) automatically liable.
ETA - doesn't mean they aren't either - but all the insurance does is cover them if they are.
"There's no "strict liability" here - i.e. just cos he did something that damaged your car doesn't make him (or his bosses) automatically liable."
How so?
He dropped two bottles of Tango. Those two bottles hit my car. Those two bottles thus dented my car.
I was sat in the car at the time, saw him do it, he admitted liability and caused the damage and so must be held responsible to pay.
He was working at the time, in work uniform and carrying out work duties, plus it was Papa Johns stock that has hit the car so either of them must be held accountable?
How so?
He dropped two bottles of Tango. Those two bottles hit my car. Those two bottles thus dented my car.
I was sat in the car at the time, saw him do it, he admitted liability and caused the damage and so must be held responsible to pay.
He was working at the time, in work uniform and carrying out work duties, plus it was Papa Johns stock that has hit the car so either of them must be held accountable?
Stevoox said:
"There's no "strict liability" here - i.e. just cos he did something that damaged your car doesn't make him (or his bosses) automatically liable."
How so?
He dropped two bottles of Tango. Those two bottles hit my car. Those two bottles thus dented my car.
I was sat in the car at the time, saw him do it, he admitted liability and caused the damage and so must be held responsible to pay.
He was working at the time, in work uniform and carrying out work duties, plus it was Papa Johns stock that has hit the car so either of them must be held accountable?
What I meant was that if you took them to court, you'd have to provide evidence of why he was liable - in this case you seem to have plenty. The point (I realise it's a technical one) is that their insurance only covers legal liability. There's a lot more to the legal stuff and IANL but basically you'd have to prove he wasn't taking reasonable care in the *circumstances. Ironically, the fact he owned up may not help - Insurers generally don't like you admitting responsibility as it stops them wriggling out of paying. Sounds like the best bet is to obtain name of insurers - or write to owner of the business threatening legal action.How so?
He dropped two bottles of Tango. Those two bottles hit my car. Those two bottles thus dented my car.
I was sat in the car at the time, saw him do it, he admitted liability and caused the damage and so must be held responsible to pay.
He was working at the time, in work uniform and carrying out work duties, plus it was Papa Johns stock that has hit the car so either of them must be held accountable?
ETA * this is similar to the "tree fell on my car" threads - just because tree falls on your car doesn't automatically make the owner of the tree liable. Granted you appear to have better grounds than that, though.
Edited by V8forweekends on Tuesday 22 April 14:56
My understanding is that the OP would need to establish there was a duty of care, that they failed in their duty of care and that the failure was responsible for the damage. To bring in the employer, I think it would need to be established the person was acting in his capacity as an employee.
It sounds to me like all the elements are in place.
It sounds to me like all the elements are in place.
I would say that having delivery driver negotiate an elevated walkway and a flight of stairs without both hands free is a liability in itself. It's a procedural deficiency that not only puts the employees at risk, but members of the public below the walkway. 2 litres is roughly 2 kg, which falling from 3 metres is more than enough to cause serious injury.
10 Pence Short said:
To bring in the employer, I think it would need to be established the person was acting in his capacity as an employee.
It sounds to me like all the elements are in place.
Yep, I've outlined to them it was during his working hours, he was wearing Papa Johns uniform and was carrying out work duties (walking to his car with hands full of pizza and drinks) when this occurred. It sounds to me like all the elements are in place.
Stevoox said:
Spoke again today with the store owner who advised that he had tried but insurance will not cover it as it was outside the premises (about 2M from their back door).
Absolute nonsense. Whilst "work away" can be an exclusion on the insurance of firms who do not work away, any Public Liability insurer who was covering a business that did fast food delivery would automatically be covering work away, because part of their work involves work away!!!And I'm not even sure this comes under work away anyway. Premises only cover isn't just in the building, but it includes the grounds, car park etc. You're being fobbed off.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
The insurance policy of the commercial vehicle being loaded/unloaded will cover third party liability during said operations.
Quite right. Having no insurance doesn't mean you they aren't liable, it just means no one is going to pick up their bill apart from them.TwigtheWonderkid said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
The insurance policy of the commercial vehicle being loaded/unloaded will cover third party liability during said operations.
So will that of a car. But it depends on the proximity of the accident to the vehicle. Stevoox said:
The car is a Megane 265 Trophy, 1 of 50 and with the lidquid yellow paint (£1500 cost from the factory) so to replace the bonnet is not going to be cheap.
The bonnet's going to be no cheaper or more expensive to replace or repair and paint than any other base-plus-clearcoat Megane bonnet.littleredrooster said:
Davel said:
If the delivery driver dropped the bottles then surely you should take it up with his employer.
Erm...isn't that exactly what the OP has done...?TooMany2cvs said:
Stevoox said:
The car is a Megane 265 Trophy, 1 of 50 and with the lidquid yellow paint (£1500 cost from the factory) so to replace the bonnet is not going to be cheap.
The bonnet's going to be no cheaper or more expensive to replace or repair and paint than any other base-plus-clearcoat Megane bonnet.littleredrooster said:
Davel said:
If the delivery driver dropped the bottles then surely you should take it up with his employer.
Erm...isn't that exactly what the OP has done...?Also, if you read through he contacted Papa Johns head office initially.
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