Speed campaign 'not saving lives'
Discussion
bbc said:
Speed campaign 'not saving lives'
The chairman of the Commons Welsh affairs select committee has criticised North Wales Police's anti-speeding campaign. Clwyd South MP Martyn Jones said evidence shows that the Arrive Alive scheme has not saved lives.
Mr Jones also expressed concern at the 6,500 motorists that he said have been wrongly prosecuted by the force.
But North Wales Police said the campaign had been "hugely successful" and fatal accidents had fallen by 63%. Members of the committee will meet North Wales chief constable Richard Brunstrom over the next two days.
Mr Jones said he was not convinced by the force's claims that the Arrive Alive scheme had been a success.
"It seems to be an accepted situation that if people drive slower then the accidents are likely to be less and likely to be not as serious, but the figures actually do not show that," he said.
"The evidence isn't there. The figures do not show that lives have been saved."
"I'm sure that questions will be asked about the Arrive Alive campaign, particularly in light of the 6,500 incorrect prosecutions that have been made by North Wales Police."
He also questioned whether the campaign had targeted the most dangerous areas.
Police say the scheme has been "hugely successful"
"The mobile cameras are not being put in the places where the dangers are actually present."
"Boy-racers are not being affected by the cameras and not being slowed down."
Earlier this month North Wales chief constable, Richard Brunstrom admitted having an "obsession" with tackling speeding motorists, but denied that had affected the force's tackling of other crime.
"3,500 people die on our roads each year and something ought to be done about it," he said.
"Hugely successful"
North Wales chief superintendent Geraint Anwyl said the Arrive Alive campaign had been "hugely successful."
"The facts are that the overall number of fatalities on Arrive Alive routes between April and September has decreased by 63%. This represents 10 fewer people killed."
"There are 35% fewer vehicles exceeding the speed limit on the routes and this has resulted in a decrease of 1200 speeding tickets per month."
"This is clear evidence that not only are lives being saved but overall traffic is slowing down."
Marvellous news, but what about this for a supreme example of bullshit
"There are 35% fewer vehicles exceeding the speed limit on the routes and this has resulted in a decrease of 1200 speeding tickets per month."
so by that perverse logic less tickets issued = less speeders. Chop down the cameras, send the talivans home and, eureka! all our problems are over
"There are 35% fewer vehicles exceeding the speed limit on the routes and this has resulted in a decrease of 1200 speeding tickets per month."
so by that perverse logic less tickets issued = less speeders. Chop down the cameras, send the talivans home and, eureka! all our problems are over Brunstrom is digging himself a hole isnt he.
First he admits he has an obsession for catching speeders.
Then his force is found to have participated in the wrongful convictions of 6500 people.......for speeding.
Clearly this personal obsession is affecting his professional judgement, his ability to carry out his role as a Chief Constable and is possibly leading him beyond a boundary in to the realms of corruption.
Is this man right to remain in the job? I think not.
First he admits he has an obsession for catching speeders.
Then his force is found to have participated in the wrongful convictions of 6500 people.......for speeding.
Clearly this personal obsession is affecting his professional judgement, his ability to carry out his role as a Chief Constable and is possibly leading him beyond a boundary in to the realms of corruption.
Is this man right to remain in the job? I think not.
swilly said:
Brunstrom is digging himself a hole isnt he.
First he admits he has an obsession for catching speeders.
Then his force is found to have participated in the wrongful convictions of 6500 people.......for speeding.
Clearly this personal obsession is affecting his professional judgement, his ability to carry out his role as a Chief Constable and is possibly leading him beyond a boundary in to the realms of corruption.
Is this man right to remain in the job? I think not.
The police are also lying. North Wales deaths were up by 11.5% last year.
We were misled to believe the scameras were placed where most accidents are happening and they are all reducing deaths by over 40%. So deaths cannot be up, can they? But they are.
>> Edited by Tafia on Monday 29th November 19:57
Arrive Alive said:
"The facts are that the overall number of fatalities on Arrive Alive routes between April and September has decreased by 63%. This represents 10 fewer people killed."
So if a life has been saved it becomes an ARRIVE ALIVE road if deaths are same or up then it is not an ARRIVE ALIVE road, all in the clasification.
Lies, damned lies and statistics
voyds9 said:
"The facts are that the overall number of fatalities on Arrive Alive routes between April and September has decreased by 63%. This represents 10 fewer people killed."
So if a life has been saved it becomes an ARRIVE ALIVE road if deaths are same or up then it is not an ARRIVE ALIVE road, all in the clasification.
Lies, damned lies and statistics
Yes, quite brilliant! And who in the media would notice such a thing?
10 fewer people killed compared to what? And when? 10 isn't really very many, and could be influenced by cluster effects. Is it actually statistically significant? Who cares -- 63% is a great headline!
So let's see,
a chief constable who is obsesses with 'speeders',
a police force that has wrongfully convicted 6500 people of speeding last year,
that force claiming
a) that they have reduced fatals on named roads by 63%
but the number of deaths within the force's overall area has gone up by 11.5%
b) the number of speeders convicted on the same named roads down by 1200 per month.
This all shows:
1) focussing on a particular geographical area can be to the detriment of road safety elsewhere, and
2) speed doesn't kill - They have fewer convictions for speeding but an overall increase in fatal accidents.
P.S. I am highly aware that the conclusions above are based on very dodgy statistics at based, but the N Wales Police force will use the same basic facts to come out with apposite conclusions..
a chief constable who is obsesses with 'speeders',
a police force that has wrongfully convicted 6500 people of speeding last year,
that force claiming
a) that they have reduced fatals on named roads by 63%
but the number of deaths within the force's overall area has gone up by 11.5%
b) the number of speeders convicted on the same named roads down by 1200 per month.
This all shows:
1) focussing on a particular geographical area can be to the detriment of road safety elsewhere, and
2) speed doesn't kill - They have fewer convictions for speeding but an overall increase in fatal accidents.
P.S. I am highly aware that the conclusions above are based on very dodgy statistics at based, but the N Wales Police force will use the same basic facts to come out with apposite conclusions..
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