A forged £20 note given back to the customer at the PO ?
Discussion
I was behind a lady in a small local Post Office and she was paying in a large wad of money (she had a Betfred shirt on so I guess she worked for them). Anyway one of the notes was declared fake by the guy behind the counter and he just gave it back to her.
Surely thats wrong ?
I mentioned it to him saying the note was still in circulation so someone innocent could end up with it. He just shrugged and said he did not have time. Is there a legal requirement to retain fake notes especially from the Post Office ?
Surely thats wrong ?
I mentioned it to him saying the note was still in circulation so someone innocent could end up with it. He just shrugged and said he did not have time. Is there a legal requirement to retain fake notes especially from the Post Office ?
The retailer is obliged to confiscate the forged note, detain the customer and call the police. Circulating counterfeit money is a criminal offence. Ignorance is not a defence.
The retailer should hand the note in to his bank if he accepted it in ignorance and he takes the hit.
The retailer in this instance was really out of order, and should have done all the above.
Hope this clarifies the situation.
The retailer should hand the note in to his bank if he accepted it in ignorance and he takes the hit.
The retailer in this instance was really out of order, and should have done all the above.
Hope this clarifies the situation.
Stinkfoot said:
saying the note was still in circulation so someone innocent could end up with it.
It's not "still in circulation" until she tries to pass it on - and she now knows it's a fake. Giving it back to her enables her to call the police and report it, potentially tying it up with whoever passed it to her (yeh, I know...)Stinkfoot said:
If someone tried to pay for goods or services with a forged note I would expect the company to withhold it and and issue a receipt or preferably call the police ?
What planet are you on? Do you think someone in a shop has the time or wants to get into a confrontation with either someone who knows it's dodgy or some poor sod who's been palmed off with it. Stinkfoot said:
If someone tried to pay for goods or services with a forged note I would expect the company to withhold it and and issue a receipt or preferably call the police ?
But you said she was paying in money so why would the Cashier be bothered if its fake he just doesn't accept it and the women's £xx downthetrash said:
Stinkfoot said:
If someone tried to pay for goods or services with a forged note I would expect the company to withhold it and and issue a receipt or preferably call the police ?
What planet are you on? Do you think someone in a shop has the time or wants to get into a confrontation with either someone who knows it's dodgy or some poor sod who's been palmed off with it. xTVR said:
The retailer is obliged to confiscate the forged note, detain the customer and call the police. Circulating counterfeit money is a criminal offence. Ignorance is not a defence.
The retailer should hand the note in to his bank if he accepted it in ignorance and he takes the hit.
The retailer in this instance was really out of order, and should have done all the above.
Hope this clarifies the situation.
what's exactly is the penalty for failing in the obligation to confiscate and detain?The retailer should hand the note in to his bank if he accepted it in ignorance and he takes the hit.
The retailer in this instance was really out of order, and should have done all the above.
Hope this clarifies the situation.
xTVR said:
The retailer is obliged to confiscate the forged note, detain the customer and call the police. Circulating counterfeit money is a criminal offence. Ignorance is not a defence.
...
Utter Rubbish. Why give b...
ks legal advice when you plainly know nothing about the law? You only commit an offence if you pass or tender a note or coin and know or believe it to be counterfeit. The law would be absurd were it otherwise. Ever put a pound coin in a parking meter only for it to be rejected? It's a fake. You didn't know or believe that to be so. Have you just committed an offence? No.
Section 15 Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981.
pork911 said:
what's exactly is the penalty for failing in the obligation to confiscate and detain?
There is no express obligation to "confiscate" a counterfeit note, and absent lawful power no one can confiscate anything that belongs to another person. xTVR may be misunderstanding section 15(2) of the 1981 Act, which provides as follows:"(2)It is an offence for a person to deliver to another, without lawful authority or excuse, any thing which is, and which he knows or believes to be, a counterfeit of a currency note or of a protected coin."
Strictly speaking, someone at a counter could be prosecuted under this section, but such a prosecution would perhaps be unlikely. First there would be an issue whether the counter worker was "delivering" the note, not having accepted it in the first place. Secondly, if giving back the note was held to be delivery of it, the counter worker could say that they gave the fake note back to the customer with the advice that the customer destroy it or report it to the police, and this could be put forward as lawful excuse for handing back the note.
It would be harsh to criminalise a counter worker for simply saying "this is a dud". The worker is not even under an obligation to report a crime because no crime may have been committed - the customer may well be innocently presenting a note not knowing it to be a dud (and contrary to the confidently ignorant assertion to the contrary by xTVR, that is not an offence).
When i worked in retail, we would get a lot of these attempted.
If i was certain it was fake, i would get a black marker and write "fake" on both sides and hand back.
This saved the agro of the customer demanding it back, as well as saving note being used again.
If i wasn't 100% sure it was fake (some are very convincing), i would just refuse to take note as payment.
If i was certain it was fake, i would get a black marker and write "fake" on both sides and hand back.
This saved the agro of the customer demanding it back, as well as saving note being used again.
If i wasn't 100% sure it was fake (some are very convincing), i would just refuse to take note as payment.
Breadvan72 said:
The worker is not even under an obligation to report a crime because no crime may have been committed...
And even if it had, where would an obligation to report it come from? There's no general obligation on members of the public to report crime, which is just as well as I wouldn't fancy having to call the police every time someone overtook me at 80mph on the motorway.Indeed. I wonder where xTVR got his claptrap from? Did he make it up himself, or get it from some bloke?
I never understand what possesses people to come on here and say in emphatic terms "the law says X" when the law says nothing of the kind. OK, it's only the internet, but what if some shopkeeper read xTVR's bullst and relied on it, and then got a lawsuit for assault on and wrongful imprisonment of some hapless customer that he detained?
I never understand what possesses people to come on here and say in emphatic terms "the law says X" when the law says nothing of the kind. OK, it's only the internet, but what if some shopkeeper read xTVR's bulls
t and relied on it, and then got a lawsuit for assault on and wrongful imprisonment of some hapless customer that he detained? 
Breadvan72 said:
pork911 said:
what's exactly is the penalty for failing in the obligation to confiscate and detain?
There is no express obligation to "confiscate" a counterfeit note, and absent lawful power no one can confiscate anything that belongs to another person. xTVR may be misunderstanding section 15(2) of the 1981 Act, which provides as follows:"(2)It is an offence for a person to deliver to another, without lawful authority or excuse, any thing which is, and which he knows or believes to be, a counterfeit of a currency note or of a protected coin."
Strictly speaking, someone at a counter could be prosecuted under this section, but such a prosecution would perhaps be unlikely. First there would be an issue whether the counter worker was "delivering" the note, not having accepted it in the first place. Secondly, if giving back the note was held to be delivery of it, the counter worker could say that they gave the fake note back to the customer with the advice that the customer destroy it or report it to the police, and this could be put forward as lawful excuse for handing back the note.
It would be harsh to criminalise a counter worker for simply saying "this is a dud". The worker is not even under an obligation to report a crime because no crime may have been committed - the customer may well be innocently presenting a note not knowing it to be a dud (and contrary to the confidently ignorant assertion to the contrary by xTVR, that is not an offence).
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