RE: Motorsport on Monday: what makes racing?
Monday 28th April 2014
With a relative lack of top level motorsport last weekend (unless you like going round in circles for a couple of hours and having a punch-up afterwards), it gives us a bit of a break this Monday to ponder the question, what makes racing?
F1 still a talking point without a raceI can't hear you
Certainly with F1, noise has been a big issue this year. The turbos have killed the exhausts' aural signature. However, this is a double-edged sword, as by doing a reverse Spinal Tap and turning the dial down from 11, actually extracting more energy from the waste exhaust gas and turning it into usable power, the cars are faster for it.
Drivetrain diversity and great racing in WECSurvival of the fittest
The problem many are complaining about in F1 2014 is the lack of noise. But that's part and parcel of the rule changes and how the formula's regs have been designed.
More commonality now but great competitionHuman interest
The challenge the drivers face plays a big part, too. There are always likeable characters and less likeable characters - even villains - up and down pit lane. People loved Senna for being candid, people love Raikkonen for his IDGAS attitude.
Flames are good, right?That's why I like the WEC, because the different solutions to the same problem by different manufacturers are really quite incredible. Who'd have thought that a naturally aspirated petrol V8 hybrid and a V6 turbodiesel hybrid would be within thousandths of a second of each other around Silverstone? Two different sized and shaped hammers to crack the same nut.
Petrol and diesel very close in WECWhy V8 Supercars has it right
Combine all of the above - albeit for the different engine notes, but a big, flame-spitting V8 sort of solves that problem anyway - and you'll come up with a series something like Australia's V8 Supercars or the BTCC. Both deliver on excitement.
Motorsport on Monday: what makes racing?
Noise, panel bashing, the driver - tell us what makes racing for you
With the new rule changes in Formula 1 and endurance racing causing much to talk about for both good and bad reasons, there's plenty to analyse about what makes motorsport.
Just as PH turned to its loyal following when we asked you to re-write the F1 rulebook, we want to know what it is about racing that gets you fired up. It's a conversation I often have with myself or anyone who's stupid enough to sit next to me. Here are my thoughts. Tell us yours, too.
F1 still a talking point without a race
Certainly with F1, noise has been a big issue this year. The turbos have killed the exhausts' aural signature. However, this is a double-edged sword, as by doing a reverse Spinal Tap and turning the dial down from 11, actually extracting more energy from the waste exhaust gas and turning it into usable power, the cars are faster for it.
I like noise. I like the cry of the old 2.4 V8s, but I also like the gruffer bark of the new 1.6-litre V6 turbos. I like the baritone blare of a Corvette as I'm trying to nod off at Tertre Rouge at 4am, or, going back a bit, the piercing shriek of a Judd GV4 V10.
But - and this brings me rather neatly on to another point that makes racing for me - I like technical innovation.
Drivetrain diversity and great racing in WEC
The problem many are complaining about in F1 2014 is the lack of noise. But that's part and parcel of the rule changes and how the formula's regs have been designed.
What do you value more? A bit of noise or engineering improvements that push how fast the human race can go on four wheels and give the drivers yet another challenge?
At one point people probably thought fuel injection was black magic and no match for a pair of twin Webers. Turbocharging must have seemed like witchcraft when it first became prevalent. But both innovations made cars quicker within the framework of the rules set out.
Energy recovery through whatever means - heat or kinetic - will do the same. Regardless of the rather flimsy efficiency argument in world motorsport, it's effectively free energy, which engineers love. If it makes the cars a touch quieter, then so be it. Audi's first diesel LMP cars proved fast doesn't have to mean noisy (or arguably boring) nearly 10 years ago.
More commonality now but great competition
The challenge the drivers face plays a big part, too. There are always likeable characters and less likeable characters - even villains - up and down pit lane. People loved Senna for being candid, people love Raikkonen for his IDGAS attitude.
Some people seem to dislike Vettel despite his skill (maybe they're all Webber fans?), but it's driver personalities and how they deal with and manage the technological developments that provides interest, too.
Race fans marvel at the complexity of a machine, but for someone with the same basic make-up as you or I to extract a scarcely believable lap time from it adds another dimension of awe.
That's entertainment
Variation is partly to do with it. Different driving styles give different results, and people like different approaches.
Flames are good, right?
In a rather circuitous process, it brings me back to noise. If you now took the diesels away from Le Mans, I might even be a little disappointed. Because every time they whoosh by I'm reminded exactly what is powering that car (technical innovation) and just how quick it is (driver input and personality).
I should qualify that by saying as long Toyota, Porsche et al. still bring the noise with petrol power, I don't mind a bit of Dyson-sounding action at the track.
In the lower classes, that you've got a raspy flat-six Porsche against a screaming Ferrari and the rumble of an Aston or a Corvette is brilliant. Variation at its very best.
Petrol and diesel very close in WEC
Combine all of the above - albeit for the different engine notes, but a big, flame-spitting V8 sort of solves that problem anyway - and you'll come up with a series something like Australia's V8 Supercars or the BTCC. Both deliver on excitement.
It's this I crave, as beyond everything I've mentioned so far, I fundamentally like to watch racing. As in one person in one car going up against another person in another car in a closely contested battle for 20-odd laps or 24 hours.
If that involves a bit of panel bashing, even better. That both V8 Supercars and BTCC are straying ever closer to spec formula rules isn't ideal, but for the minute, they're just two of many different series that embody what makes racing for me.
But how about you? Tell us in the comments.
Discussion
I like a race where nearly everybody has a chance of winning. That's why I was really excited about this years F1 season - a complete shake up of rules meant that anyone could be in with a shout. Looks like it's not quite worked out that way, but I love the new noises.
ETA: If other race series were given the same attention as F1 (in my experience all the info given and the driver interviews / walk arounds are brilliant in F1) then they would be more enjoyable then F1. The relationship between the drivers and their teams means you can get emotionally involved in the race.
I think that's what makes racing - an emotional attachment.
ETA: If other race series were given the same attention as F1 (in my experience all the info given and the driver interviews / walk arounds are brilliant in F1) then they would be more enjoyable then F1. The relationship between the drivers and their teams means you can get emotionally involved in the race.
I think that's what makes racing - an emotional attachment.
Edited by TommyBuoy on Monday 28th April 11:39
I like racing with varying formats. Mixing up the drive, size and powerplant. Look at the original minis racing against the yank V8's for a prime example.
I liked the 90's BTCC. fwd, 4wd, estate, saloon, hatch all based on road cars.
Todays BTCC looks like its going the way of all having the same car but with a different piece of fibreglass/plastic thrown on top which for me is boring. We had the competitive diesels and ofcourse thats been phased out. The S2000 cars vs NGTC through up some interesting comparisons in the races (well when they finally wound the turbos back enough.
I liked the 90's BTCC. fwd, 4wd, estate, saloon, hatch all based on road cars.
Todays BTCC looks like its going the way of all having the same car but with a different piece of fibreglass/plastic thrown on top which for me is boring. We had the competitive diesels and ofcourse thats been phased out. The S2000 cars vs NGTC through up some interesting comparisons in the races (well when they finally wound the turbos back enough.
. Audi at LeMans? I am a very keen motorsport fan, I will watch many series. However this year it is all about V8 supercars. Its shown on motors TV, the commentators are funny, they get up close to the drivers and teams, the cars have the great combination of loads of power, plenty of weight and not enough grip - they are seriously hustled around the track with some serious commitment from the drivers. Very close fast racing, great to watch.
I will admit the addition of Volvo has also helped keep my attention.
I will admit the addition of Volvo has also helped keep my attention.
So you like close racing, you like driver personalities, you like cars to be within thousandths of a second of each other, you like flames and sparks but you wrote off NASCAR in your first paragraph.
It's poorly thought out comments like that which make me skim read the real of the article.
It's poorly thought out comments like that which make me skim read the real of the article.
What makes racing? ..... as Nigel Roebuck (Autosport and latterly Motor Sport) always points out, the clue is in the question; 'Racing'. Two or more guys (or girls) being able to pass and re-pass over the course of a race. Numerous examples, the most recent being the Bahrain GP. Only two guys in it but you couldn't call it boring. Of course if there had been three or four battling for the win it would have been even better, but it illustrates the point 
How you achieve this state of racing nirvana within the relevant technical regulations is, of course, the tricky question. Artificial excitement (success ballast, DRS, disintegrating tyres or whatever), too much reliance on aero, not enough freedom in the regulations, too much freedom in the regulation .... it's a whole different debate.
The big thing at the moment is noise. Yes, I love the noise - but if the choice was a fantastic noise but dull racing or great on-track dicing with a slightly less fantastic soundtrack then I'd take the close dicing every time. I guess your vantage point also has a bearing on the noise issue. Watching on TV is a whole different experience to watching at the circuit - and it's not just the noise, but the atmosphere, the smell, (occasionally) the ground-shaking vibrations (go and watch some historic Can-Am or similar if you don't know what I'm talking about - and Top Fuel dragsters and funny cars are just on another planet!). I think that's when things other than the visuals come into play, because you can't see the cars for the whole time but you can sometimes 'hear' the excitement, if you know what I mean. That said, I've been to more than a few historic race meetings and yes the noise is fantastic, but more often than not the racing isn't that close - and no matter how good the noise is you soon find yourself wishing there was some actual racing going on.
How you achieve this state of racing nirvana within the relevant technical regulations is, of course, the tricky question. Artificial excitement (success ballast, DRS, disintegrating tyres or whatever), too much reliance on aero, not enough freedom in the regulations, too much freedom in the regulation .... it's a whole different debate.
The big thing at the moment is noise. Yes, I love the noise - but if the choice was a fantastic noise but dull racing or great on-track dicing with a slightly less fantastic soundtrack then I'd take the close dicing every time. I guess your vantage point also has a bearing on the noise issue. Watching on TV is a whole different experience to watching at the circuit - and it's not just the noise, but the atmosphere, the smell, (occasionally) the ground-shaking vibrations (go and watch some historic Can-Am or similar if you don't know what I'm talking about - and Top Fuel dragsters and funny cars are just on another planet!). I think that's when things other than the visuals come into play, because you can't see the cars for the whole time but you can sometimes 'hear' the excitement, if you know what I mean. That said, I've been to more than a few historic race meetings and yes the noise is fantastic, but more often than not the racing isn't that close - and no matter how good the noise is you soon find yourself wishing there was some actual racing going on.
By it's very definition, boring motor racing is almost inevitable. Mercedes has by far the best car in F1 just now and their drivers are little worse or better than Vettel who dominated the sport for the last few years. Similarly, the Brabham BRM's in the 80's, McLaren, Williams, the Shumacher Ferrari years etc. - going all the way back to the dawn of F1 has been dominated by a single manufacturer for a period. And overtaking has always been well nigh impossible, again, by definition, the fastest guy in qualifying gets pole so has the best chance of winning.
What has comprehensively screwed F1 up is the drivers 'celebrity' status. The formula was begun as a competition between manufacturers, but it has gradually evolved into a race between individuals, unlike LMS, for example, which emphasises the manufacturer and team, which still doesn't eradicate domination.
Making teams run precisely the same car a la FFord merely exacerbates that situation and inevitably, we get one excellent driver dominating. Look at the 2013 & 2014 MotoGP if you want an example of it. They have different engines, but the tyres are all Bridgestone and tyres are more critical in that sport than in F1. What's happening? The enigma that is Marc Marques is just running away with it and no one has a clue how to stop him because the technical regulations are so restrictive. Rossi et al could probably compete with him, but the Yamaha is thirstier than the Honda so they have to keep the wick turned down to conserve fuel.
So once again, domination thanks to restrictive regulations rather than letting the engineers have a chance of competing.
Unfortunately, motor racing is likely to become a victim of its own success with over exposure on TV. There are multiple world motorcycling and car events on almost every week for 20+ weeks, it is simply geeting swamped. And each of those events are robbing F1 of viewers and therfore cash.
The whole motor racing landscape is heading for a crash, I don't think there will be much left in 20 years.
What has comprehensively screwed F1 up is the drivers 'celebrity' status. The formula was begun as a competition between manufacturers, but it has gradually evolved into a race between individuals, unlike LMS, for example, which emphasises the manufacturer and team, which still doesn't eradicate domination.
Making teams run precisely the same car a la FFord merely exacerbates that situation and inevitably, we get one excellent driver dominating. Look at the 2013 & 2014 MotoGP if you want an example of it. They have different engines, but the tyres are all Bridgestone and tyres are more critical in that sport than in F1. What's happening? The enigma that is Marc Marques is just running away with it and no one has a clue how to stop him because the technical regulations are so restrictive. Rossi et al could probably compete with him, but the Yamaha is thirstier than the Honda so they have to keep the wick turned down to conserve fuel.
So once again, domination thanks to restrictive regulations rather than letting the engineers have a chance of competing.
Unfortunately, motor racing is likely to become a victim of its own success with over exposure on TV. There are multiple world motorcycling and car events on almost every week for 20+ weeks, it is simply geeting swamped. And each of those events are robbing F1 of viewers and therfore cash.
The whole motor racing landscape is heading for a crash, I don't think there will be much left in 20 years.
sumpoil said:
What makes racing? ..... as Nigel Roebuck (Autosport and latterly Motor Sport) always points out, the clue is in the question; 'Racing'. Two or more guys (or girls) being able to pass and re-pass over the course of a race. Numerous examples, the most recent being the Bahrain GP. Only two guys in it but you couldn't call it boring. Of course if there had been three or four battling for the win it would have been even better, but it illustrates the point
How you achieve this state of racing nirvana within the relevant technical regulations is, of course, the tricky question. Artificial excitement (success ballast, DRS, disintegrating tyres or whatever), too much reliance on aero, not enough freedom in the regulations, too much freedom in the regulation .... it's a whole different debate.
The big thing at the moment is noise. Yes, I love the noise - but if the choice was a fantastic noise but dull racing or great on-track dicing with a slightly less fantastic soundtrack then I'd take the close dicing every time. I guess your vantage point also has a bearing on the noise issue. Watching on TV is a whole different experience to watching at the circuit - and it's not just the noise, but the atmosphere, the smell, (occasionally) the ground-shaking vibrations (go and watch some historic Can-Am or similar if you don't know what I'm talking about - and Top Fuel dragsters and funny cars are just on another planet!). I think that's when things other than the visuals come into play, because you can't see the cars for the whole time but you can sometimes 'hear' the excitement, if you know what I mean. That said, I've been to more than a few historic race meetings and yes the noise is fantastic, but more often than not the racing isn't that close - and no matter how good the noise is you soon find yourself wishing there was some actual racing going on.
Agree I like a good btcc race like a lot of others a few nudges and close racing between a few drivers. But I also like a good close non contact battle just between 2 drivers. The best race like this Ive seen was at castle combe last year.How you achieve this state of racing nirvana within the relevant technical regulations is, of course, the tricky question. Artificial excitement (success ballast, DRS, disintegrating tyres or whatever), too much reliance on aero, not enough freedom in the regulations, too much freedom in the regulation .... it's a whole different debate.
The big thing at the moment is noise. Yes, I love the noise - but if the choice was a fantastic noise but dull racing or great on-track dicing with a slightly less fantastic soundtrack then I'd take the close dicing every time. I guess your vantage point also has a bearing on the noise issue. Watching on TV is a whole different experience to watching at the circuit - and it's not just the noise, but the atmosphere, the smell, (occasionally) the ground-shaking vibrations (go and watch some historic Can-Am or similar if you don't know what I'm talking about - and Top Fuel dragsters and funny cars are just on another planet!). I think that's when things other than the visuals come into play, because you can't see the cars for the whole time but you can sometimes 'hear' the excitement, if you know what I mean. That said, I've been to more than a few historic race meetings and yes the noise is fantastic, but more often than not the racing isn't that close - and no matter how good the noise is you soon find yourself wishing there was some actual racing going on.
One of the races was the Pirelli Ferrari challenge with various new models. The 2 quickest cars a 458 and a 458 gt car was the class of the field the gt was expected to fly past and disappear up the road it didn't over the course of 20 laps they swapped places 30 times real close battle no contact and the crowd was loving it each driver respected the other but where still going for it every lap was the best race that day with just 2 cars.
What I find really depressing is that f1 has such a huge dominance on tv other series gets forgotten about btcc is on itv4 along with the wrc but apart from that most british series are shown on motors tv which gets forgotten about.
British gt have a huge field this year but hardly anything about it wec again very little coverage of it along with many other rallycross is another sport used to be shown on bbc again back to eurosports pay to view.
But I do think people are slowly turning away from f1 a lot of people have turned off this year for various discussed reason ive certainly turned off it just hope the manufactures switch priorities to wec/rallying/Gt/touring cars etc.
V8 Supercars have it nailed.
650bhp, 1400kgs, massively talented but completely approachable drivers, big speeds, bouncy suspension, 2ft long gearlevers, endless oppo and sideways at 100+mph, 2 wheels off the ground every single lap, absolute door to door racing, fantastic commentary and production values and no limits access to the pits and team owners.
Pedal cam for the lost art of heel and toe, suspension cam, brake cam and even diff cam!!
50 races per season, nail biting qualifying sessions and more action, fun and overtakes in one race than a whole decade of F1.
And then there's the pinnacle, Mount Panorama, hosting the mighty Bathurst 1000km with it's amazing track, 300kph sideways through The Chase and 100,000+ spectators.
Nothing comes close......
650bhp, 1400kgs, massively talented but completely approachable drivers, big speeds, bouncy suspension, 2ft long gearlevers, endless oppo and sideways at 100+mph, 2 wheels off the ground every single lap, absolute door to door racing, fantastic commentary and production values and no limits access to the pits and team owners.
Pedal cam for the lost art of heel and toe, suspension cam, brake cam and even diff cam!!
50 races per season, nail biting qualifying sessions and more action, fun and overtakes in one race than a whole decade of F1.
And then there's the pinnacle, Mount Panorama, hosting the mighty Bathurst 1000km with it's amazing track, 300kph sideways through The Chase and 100,000+ spectators.
Nothing comes close......
V8 supercars for me by far this year, I'm still a big F1 fan and this season has been and will be interesting all the way to.the end. But the Aussie V8's has been even more entertaining than the BTCC. Big power, less grip than ideal and saloon bodies so some contact can be made. It's balls out motorsport perfection.
as the xkcd comic pointed out sport is random number generator with a narrative attached.
I believe its the narrative which makes sport and in this case racing. the narrative must be there it must be strong and it must be simple.
Some of the greatest races can be summed up in a sentence
Kimi starts at the back in japan then passes the entire field , last one on the last lap, to win.
how the narrative is defined is a good question. multiple tyre stops & compounds are a good way of introducing variation. It's mainly boring when everyone takes the same approach to racing and people finish in the same position they start.
I believe its the narrative which makes sport and in this case racing. the narrative must be there it must be strong and it must be simple.
Some of the greatest races can be summed up in a sentence
Kimi starts at the back in japan then passes the entire field , last one on the last lap, to win.
how the narrative is defined is a good question. multiple tyre stops & compounds are a good way of introducing variation. It's mainly boring when everyone takes the same approach to racing and people finish in the same position they start.
Saw this on my lunch hour, and decided to add my two-penneth. I've been a huge car fan all my life and always will be (astute readers may see where this is going already). Motorsport for me is epitomized by excitement. I don't care what sound they make, and I really don't understand the fuss over F1 this year. It's all about not being able to resist rewinding that last corner over-taking move to see just how the F*&% it happened. BTCC used to be interesting, back in the days of the RS Cosworths et al, I used to love F1 (and am actually getting back into it this year) but it went through years of dull processions to the flag, with commentators, bless 'em, really trying to make it sound worth watching. Rallying is cool, but it's not racing in the usual sense, and has it's own individual appeal.
What really puts me on the edge of my seat is motorcycling. Pretty much any class or size. I've never ridden a motorbike, and been a passenger on the back once (and far from being as exciting as some make out, 80mph didn't seem like 80mph at all). I'm not against it, but I don't DO it. But jeez, I LOVE watching it. Moto GP can be a touch less exciting than other formulas, but it rarely lets me down in terms of whooping and desperately trying to persuade the bird to watch a close pass over and over again Maybe it's the fact that the severely limited physically-possible grip means it's more risky to outbrake into a hairpin off a long straight, or simply that there's more available width on the track with which to hoon around, but it just keeps me hugely entertained. Maybe even because there's a real sense of danger, I think I remember even Stirling Moss commented that motor racing lost it's edge because it was too safe. Even the hairdryer classes have something because they're all so close in terms of actual performance, it comes down to rider skill, and not just the best machinery.
So after all that waffle, that's my ticket. Sheer excitement and close dicing
What really puts me on the edge of my seat is motorcycling. Pretty much any class or size. I've never ridden a motorbike, and been a passenger on the back once (and far from being as exciting as some make out, 80mph didn't seem like 80mph at all). I'm not against it, but I don't DO it. But jeez, I LOVE watching it. Moto GP can be a touch less exciting than other formulas, but it rarely lets me down in terms of whooping and desperately trying to persuade the bird to watch a close pass over and over again
Maybe it's the fact that the severely limited physically-possible grip means it's more risky to outbrake into a hairpin off a long straight, or simply that there's more available width on the track with which to hoon around, but it just keeps me hugely entertained. Maybe even because there's a real sense of danger, I think I remember even Stirling Moss commented that motor racing lost it's edge because it was too safe. Even the hairdryer classes have something because they're all so close in terms of actual performance, it comes down to rider skill, and not just the best machinery.So after all that waffle, that's my ticket. Sheer excitement and close dicing
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