Rest.....how much? Help me!

[russy01]

Bit of a silly thread here chaps, but not sure what to do....

Now Im not some top cyclist trying to win every race and wanting a structured training regime...Im just a 26yr old chap loving cycling, getting fit and trying to tone up. I have a half decent diet, but nothing specific for exercise.

Im currently doing 90-120 miles per week (Typically ride every other day) on the RB and the days I don't cycle I go to the gym for 40mins of high rep core and upper body resistance.

Im pushing my rides fairly hard, my legs know about it the following day, But are normally fresh the day after.

So my question is how often can I get away with riding and how much rest do I need? At the moment I feel strong and would happily ride every day as I am motivated (and have a day off when I really need it), but I worry that this isnt best long term and ill soon slump/get fed up.

e.g -

Last thursday I did a hard and hilly 45mile ride and on friday my legs were heavy. On friday should I have gone and shot my legs to pieces again and then recovered all weekend? Or should I have rested for a day and then gone hell for leather when I was fresh the following day.

I see people on strava going flat out 5-6 days per week with literally 1 day off and maintaining fantastic performance/pace - is this because:

- They are so much fitter than me and their body is "used" to it.
- They are literally running on empty and are about to explode and need a week off
- They have a great diet/supplements that enables their body to cope/recover for each ride?


What should I do?

- Ride through general aches and tiredness and rest every couple days when Im a bit tired?
OR
- Ride really hard for 3-4days until I am completely shagged and it hurts to walk down the stairs and then have 2-3days off
OR
- Ride hard, rest until I am fairly fresh and then go hard again (so day on, day off)


Also do you recommend any supplements / recovery drinks / magic serums to help with speeding up recovery so you can get back out there ASAP.

Thanks.

[lufbramatt]

Sounds like you're on the right track, your fitness will improve over time. Maybe just try doing an very easy recovery ride on your "off" days to loosen your legs up, say 10 miles and keep the cadence up but speed down. This will get you used to riding more days, then eventually you can add intervals, hills etc.I used to train 5 days a week (running) then race on a Saturday, kept that up for a couple of years with no problems, just have to really listen to your body and be aware of any odd niggles so you can take action before they develop into injuries. Don't forget core strength work etc. to ensure you don't get muscle imbalances that could result in back problems and things like that.

At the moment I'm doing a decent run every other day, but find that cycling to work and going for slower runs with my wife really helps me recover on the days between hard runs.

Edited by lufbramatt on Monday 28th April 15:17

[upsidedownmark]

'Typical' training schedules tend to be 1 recovery day/week, three 'hard' weeks, one 'recovery/easy' week, then repeat.

That said, not all rides are done flat out either, even on an 'on week'. So, a mix of hard rides, and easy aerobic ones, etc. Your legs shouldn't be shot all the time.

How much you can tolerate depends a lot on you, and how much you've trained in the past - it's a case of building it up steadily more than anything.

[Disco You]

If you can't resist going on the bike, then just do a recovery spin the day after a hard ride. Say half the distance of your hard ride on flat terrain at a low HR zone.

[russy01]

upsidedownmark said:

'Typical' training schedules tend to be 1 recovery day/week, three 'hard' weeks, one 'recovery/easy' week, then repeat.

That said, not all rides are done flat out either, even on an 'on week'. So, a mix of hard rides, and easy aerobic ones, etc. Your legs shouldn't be shot all the time.

How much you can tolerate depends a lot on you, and how much you've trained in the past - it's a case of building it up steadily more than anything.

To be fair I can tolerate a lot and have been fit my whole life, I can keep riding day after day but obviously as I tire my performance gets worse and worse.
So being older and more wise now I am just looking into whether this is the most beneficial way for me to train going forward.

I think mentally Its good going day on day off, as I feel strong on each ride and come home on a high etc. But I dont want to be a girl, when really I should be out there hanging over the handle bars to get any real performance increases.


To answer my last point, would you recommend any product to help with recovery? Or just maintain a balanced diet?

[upsidedownmark]

Personally, balanced diet and plenty of sleep. After a really hard ride / smash-fest / race, I'll go with a recovery drink (for goodness shakes / chocolate milk), and make sure I stretch properly (am notoriously lazy about stretching, but it does help ensure I can walk the day after a hard session).

There's good evidence that it's beneficial to get quality nutrition in immediately after hard exercise - effectively the body is 'primed' to take it on board for a few hours afterwards. According to the scientists, that makes a big difference to recovery, but I've never done an objective test myself.

I'm training run & bike (and some swim), so I tend to mix through the sports and train 5-6 days a week - not quite the same as one on / one off, but a little of that. You should certainly see a benefit from going for a solid block of overload now and again, if not all the time. Try training 6-7 days solid one week, then have an easy week. All you can really do is give it a go and see how your body (and mind) react.

P.S. In terms of improvement, consistency wins hands down over beating yourself into a hole, then getting injured / falling out of love with it and sitting on the sofa eating pies. Ask how I know

P.P.S. 'Training' per-se doesn't make you faster, training overloads the body and stimulates adaption, you have to recover to grow stronger. So yes, you'll get slower over a block, the question is pretty much: 1) How big a hole do you dig before you allow recovery, and 2) How long do you recover to get out of the hole. If in doubt, I'd tend to keep the holes and recovery smaller, but experiment with a bit of a bigger dig now and then, see how you handle it.

Edited by upsidedownmark on Monday 28th April 15:59

[anonymous-user]

Stretching will aid recovery just as well as any "product", don't waste your money, just spend twenty minutes twice a week doing quad, hamstring, glutes and calf stretches

[TSCfree]

^^^I second this. Less than £10 spent on a foam roller and stretching will see you through most things. I've been lazy recently, got a tight ITB, left it and now I've had over a week off for lateral knee pain. That's the second time I've neglected stretching and It's left left me with niggles.

[Rob_T]

pablo said:

Stretching will aid recovery just as well as any "product", don't waste your money, just spend twenty minutes twice a week doing quad, hamstring, glutes and calf stretches

i would liked to have agreed with you on this. i don't buy into product marketing claptrap spin nonsense hocus pocus wizardry.

HOWEVER

one day i was given a bottle of this stuff:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/science-in-sport-rego-rapi...

all i can say is it is the best thing for me post a hard ride. it satisfies all my bodies seeming requirements and chemical imbalances. previously i would be making up all sorts of concoctions from the kitchen but nothing ever really hit the spot.

OP - try it, if you don't like it, i'll buy it off you!

my only dilemma now is whether to have a chocolate or strawberry flavour when i get home.

[russy01]

Thanks so far chaps.

I think I'm going to mix it up a bit and see how it goes.

Might try some of the maxi stuff aswell, have to say I do like a nice milkshake and often have one after a long ride anyway - so something more scientific than nesquik might help!

[upsidedownmark]

Just goes to prove everyone's different. I'd love to like the SIS rego, but personally I find it vile - gave mine away, can't swallow it without retching. Doesn't matter how good it is, no dice

Don't knock that milkshake either..
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/190813.ph...

Edited by upsidedownmark on Monday 28th April 17:41

[okgo]

The more you train the more you can train.

At some point in order to get better you need to overload, then rest to gain adaption to go further and faster than last time. When not ill or injured or peaking for a specific event i have typically 1 rest day a week. Not every ride is hard of course which means you can go out day after day but of course how hard depends on the time you have to play with each week.

I didn't notice the option

Ride hard some days, ride easier others, have a total rest every so often. That is likely better than killing yourself every ride and then needing two days off.

Regarding recovery, it doesn't likely matter much if its supplement or real food. But make sure you have protein and high gi carbs within the magic window (around 40 mins) this will certainly help along with stretching and foam roller

Edited by okgo on Monday 28th April 17:53

[sparkyb999]

Rob_T said:

i would liked to have agreed with you on this. i don't buy into product marketing claptrap spin nonsense hocus pocus wizardry.

HOWEVER

one day i was given a bottle of this stuff:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/science-in-sport-rego-rapi...

all i can say is it is the best thing for me post a hard ride. it satisfies all my bodies seeming requirements and chemical imbalances. previously i would be making up all sorts of concoctions from the kitchen but nothing ever really hit the spot.

OP - try it, if you don't like it, i'll buy it off you!

my only dilemma now is whether to have a chocolate or strawberry flavour when i get home.

Can I ask how to know it (or seems to) satisfy your bodies requirements and chemical imbalances?
I have tried all different types of recovery shakes, and protein, and the only thing I can feel the benefit from is stretching.

I had a really tight ITB last year, and thought by resting would cure it, after 2 months of resting, I got back on the bike and was shown how to stretch properly, and this year, I am back up to 150 miles a week and training again...

When I use recovery aids, I actually have no idea if it works, i.e. feel no different.

[Grandfondo]

Very hard to overtrain but very easy to under rest!

[okgo]

sparkyb999 said:

Can I ask how to know it (or seems to) satisfy your bodies requirements and chemical imbalances?
I have tried all different types of recovery shakes, and protein, and the only thing I can feel the benefit from is stretching.

I had a really tight ITB last year, and thought by resting would cure it, after 2 months of resting, I got back on the bike and was shown how to stretch properly, and this year, I am back up to 150 miles a week and training again...

When I use recovery aids, I actually have no idea if it works, i.e. feel no different.

Have a read of Michael Hutchinsons new book. It goes into some length about nutrition specifically recovery products. They are a big help if done at the right time, basically was the upshot.

[matt-ITR]

OP, do you use a heart rate monitor? Or maybe a power meter?
They can be useful in giving an insight into over-training and weather you need a rest.

[Rob_T]

sparkyb999 said:

Can I ask how to know it (or seems to) satisfy your bodies requirements and chemical imbalances?
I have tried all different types of recovery shakes, and protein, and the only thing I can feel the benefit from is stretching.

i'm no nutritionist or scientist on the matter. however i noticed that i went through periods of cravings - especially salt or sugar. i used to scour the kitchen looking for something that would 'fix' me after a long ride. i had varying degrees of success with e.g. a homemade milkshake, but nothing even came close to the SiS stuff. that having been said i also started to use the Sis Go Energy powder drink during rides instead of just water. I absolutely hate the fact that I appear to have succumbed to what I see it as marketing rubbish, but it genuinely has made a big difference to me personally in terms of being able to keep the head down on longer rides. Very strange thing the body and how it seemingly works! I don't get any cravings now. That's how I know it (seems to) satisfy my bodies requirements!

Also I found the worse thing you could do when getting home from a long long ride was to flop on a sofa. Stay active, do something, go for a walk, cut the grass but don't just let yourself stiffen up.

[superkartracer]

Depends how HARD your training is ( and age ) and current fitness//

I rest 3 days a week ( total time off bike ) but train hard for 3 sessions a week with a long but not easy 3-4 + hour ride on a Sunday.

Ideally you need to track fitness and load using something like training Peaks, that gives you a TSS score for the load you did in week etc.

100 points is an hour TT flat out, so if you'll hitting 600/700 TSS points a week thats a TT per day and mixed in with work/kids/life stress it's more than most can handle before getting sick/losing gains. It also takes a few years to build up to that level of training.

You can go for easy spins on rest days but TBH having a total rest is good for your mental state and i assume you have other stuff to do life?. Only downside i find with total days off are legs can feel a little sore/stiff but like others have said the roller is brill for this and getting decent fuel onboard to repair the damage etc.

Rest is very important and it's hard to get your head around the fact rest makes you fitter while the hard training breaks you down and loses a little fitness each time , it's a fine line and overtraining is very easy to do.

PS. Like Rob said that book is very good and cuts though a very complex subject.

Edited by superkartracer on Tuesday 29th April 11:09

[S6PNJ]

okgo said:

Have a read of Michael Hutchinsons new book. It goes into some length about nutrition specifically recovery products. They are a big help if done at the right time, basically was the upshot.

Do you mean this one? Or if not, which one?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hour-Michael-Hutchinson/dp...

[okgo]

No, not that one, although that is a great read too.

His latest is called "Faster" - good read about the science and techniques behind getting faster.