Am I being unreasonable
Discussion
This is going to be a bit of a ramble but you might as well have the whole story if your going to give an informed opinion.
A couple of months ago I bought myself a 07 plate Boxster from a very nice looking Maserati main dealership near Preston, 110 miles from where I live. In the first week I noticed it was using what I consider a lot of oil and smoking quite a lot on start up. I contacted the garage and said I was quite concerned about this and also pointed out another couple of things that were not right. I agreed with them to get the car inspected at a local Porsche specialist in Stockton the following week( as soon as I could ).
The specialist could not find anything obvious but agreed that if my figures were correct it was worthy of further investigation, as it turned out it was approx 1.5/1.7l in the first 1000miles.He also found another couple of things that were not as they should be.
I contacted the garage and they agreed to put the car into there workshop and inspect/repair things that were not up to scratch.They delt with everything to my satisfaction and like the local guy couldn't find an obvious reason for the oil consumption. They said they had flushed the system and done an oil change and could I keep an eye on it and log when I topped it up and by how much. We agreed I would return after about 1000 miles for a more another assessment.
Over the course of the next 1000 miles it settled down a little but was still high in my opinion. On returning it to the garage they calculated it used just over 1 liter per 1000 miles. They now say that this is well within the "up to 1.5l per 620 miles " that is stated in the owners hand book and as far as they are concerned they have "proved" that there is nothing wrong as the consumption is not high enough and they will not take it any further.
I do accept that the oil usage does not exceed what is in the handbook, but that is a MAXIMUM and not what can reasonably considered NORMAL.I do not believe they have "proved" anything, indeed this level of consumption could well be a symptom of a number of problems hidden deeper inside the engine as such further investigation is warranted. They disagree and want nothing more to do with the car with regard to this issue.
What do you guys and girls think. Should I push it further or am I being unreasonable?
A couple of months ago I bought myself a 07 plate Boxster from a very nice looking Maserati main dealership near Preston, 110 miles from where I live. In the first week I noticed it was using what I consider a lot of oil and smoking quite a lot on start up. I contacted the garage and said I was quite concerned about this and also pointed out another couple of things that were not right. I agreed with them to get the car inspected at a local Porsche specialist in Stockton the following week( as soon as I could ).
The specialist could not find anything obvious but agreed that if my figures were correct it was worthy of further investigation, as it turned out it was approx 1.5/1.7l in the first 1000miles.He also found another couple of things that were not as they should be.
I contacted the garage and they agreed to put the car into there workshop and inspect/repair things that were not up to scratch.They delt with everything to my satisfaction and like the local guy couldn't find an obvious reason for the oil consumption. They said they had flushed the system and done an oil change and could I keep an eye on it and log when I topped it up and by how much. We agreed I would return after about 1000 miles for a more another assessment.
Over the course of the next 1000 miles it settled down a little but was still high in my opinion. On returning it to the garage they calculated it used just over 1 liter per 1000 miles. They now say that this is well within the "up to 1.5l per 620 miles " that is stated in the owners hand book and as far as they are concerned they have "proved" that there is nothing wrong as the consumption is not high enough and they will not take it any further.
I do accept that the oil usage does not exceed what is in the handbook, but that is a MAXIMUM and not what can reasonably considered NORMAL.I do not believe they have "proved" anything, indeed this level of consumption could well be a symptom of a number of problems hidden deeper inside the engine as such further investigation is warranted. They disagree and want nothing more to do with the car with regard to this issue.
What do you guys and girls think. Should I push it further or am I being unreasonable?
I you can't expect the garage to correcta fault that Doesn't exist.
I agree that the oil consumption sounds high, but Porsche say that level opus within tolerance, so it's normal.
Not a lot else you can do really, and to be fair I t sounds as if the dealer you bought it from has been quite good to be fair.
I agree that the oil consumption sounds high, but Porsche say that level opus within tolerance, so it's normal.
Not a lot else you can do really, and to be fair I t sounds as if the dealer you bought it from has been quite good to be fair.
However much I would like the ph'er to be right and fight an injustice... I'm afraid I can't fault the garage's response.
Imagine you'd sold the car privately to me and I said some other objectively measurable metric didn't feel right but was within the tolerance specified in the manual (say I was dissapointed by the mpg) - would you feel compelled to take any action after investigating it yourself, having an independent garage look at it and sit out a grace period.
In my humble opinion you should drive it as it was intended to be driven as often as possible and grow to love the bones of it!
Imagine you'd sold the car privately to me and I said some other objectively measurable metric didn't feel right but was within the tolerance specified in the manual (say I was dissapointed by the mpg) - would you feel compelled to take any action after investigating it yourself, having an independent garage look at it and sit out a grace period.
In my humble opinion you should drive it as it was intended to be driven as often as possible and grow to love the bones of it!
The e46 330 is the same (I had the 323 before and that didn't use oil). The tolerances you state are the same for BMW and my car used to go through the same oil as you do. It's reduced a bit now as I changed the crank ventilation valve and also discovered a number of leaky gaskets (cam cover, oil filter housing plus it still looks like the sump gasket is leaking too, but I can't do that until I next change the oil).
Look for obvious leaks, but other than that just accept that the car uses oil and keep on top of it. Have a look around on owners clubs and see what others are experiencing, but I agree with the others that the garage seem to be very reasonable.
Look for obvious leaks, but other than that just accept that the car uses oil and keep on top of it. Have a look around on owners clubs and see what others are experiencing, but I agree with the others that the garage seem to be very reasonable.
skyline501 said:
I'd agree with the OP that 1 lt/1000 miles (possibly 12 litres between services) is unreasonable.
If it's a characteristic of that engine then you could argue that the OP should have researched the car before buying it. Oil isn't expensive (12 litres will cost about £100, or less if you shop around).
skyline501 said:
Not a Hi-jack of the thread but why do some modern engines burn so much oil?
I'm forever having to check/top-up the wifes MCS but my 2.2dci doesn't burn a drop between services.
I'd agree with the OP that 1 lt/1000 miles (possibly 12 litres between services) is unreasonable.
The MCS is crap when it comes to oil. I'm forever having to check/top-up the wifes MCS but my 2.2dci doesn't burn a drop between services.
I'd agree with the OP that 1 lt/1000 miles (possibly 12 litres between services) is unreasonable.
My wife has one, it does very few miles and yet drinks oil.
I've never owned a car consumes so much
But manufacturer says it's normal
ETA. Sorry OP, you are.
May be worth a review of the handbook, and to see whether moving up to a slightly thicker grade of oil is possible, assuming you can find out what's been put in.
The engine on my car is/was designed to run on a fairly thin oil but can run on thicker oils too. As it got older, it was quite clear it had something of an appetite for it. A sidestep to a marginally thicker grade (from 5w40 to 10w40) slowed the oil consumption right down and put it down from regular top ups, to an occasional top up between services.
It does seem to be a thing about some modern engines using really thin oils (presumably to aid lubrication from cold, as people do lots of short trips and don't show much sympathy for their cars from cold either) as my Octavia 2.0 TFSI VRS used a really thin grade of oil and seemed to guzzle that like it was going out of fashion too.
And FWIW and despite what others are saying, I don't think your concerns about oil consumption are unfair / unfounded.
The engine on my car is/was designed to run on a fairly thin oil but can run on thicker oils too. As it got older, it was quite clear it had something of an appetite for it. A sidestep to a marginally thicker grade (from 5w40 to 10w40) slowed the oil consumption right down and put it down from regular top ups, to an occasional top up between services.
It does seem to be a thing about some modern engines using really thin oils (presumably to aid lubrication from cold, as people do lots of short trips and don't show much sympathy for their cars from cold either) as my Octavia 2.0 TFSI VRS used a really thin grade of oil and seemed to guzzle that like it was going out of fashion too.
And FWIW and despite what others are saying, I don't think your concerns about oil consumption are unfair / unfounded.
Thanks for the replies folks
Just to clear up a few points.
I do accept that the level of consumption is below the level at which Porsche regard it as a problem.However it is getting towards the upper end of the scale, in 25 years of car and bike ownership this is a first for me and as an engineer that bothers me.
Like some of you have said it may just be one of those engines but also it may not, personally I would rather know for sure one way or the other WHY it's happening but I see from your replies I'm the odd one out.
Thank you you've been most helpful
Just to clear up a few points.
I do accept that the level of consumption is below the level at which Porsche regard it as a problem.However it is getting towards the upper end of the scale, in 25 years of car and bike ownership this is a first for me and as an engineer that bothers me.
Like some of you have said it may just be one of those engines but also it may not, personally I would rather know for sure one way or the other WHY it's happening but I see from your replies I'm the odd one out.
Thank you you've been most helpful
Edited by Monkeynut21 on Thursday 1st May 08:47
Edited by Monkeynut21 on Thursday 1st May 08:47
My Cayman might be littered with faults but burning oil is not one of them - and having checked the general consensus is the Boxster/Cayman engines do not tend to use oil like the contemporary 911s...I was told that blue smoke at start up might be the oil separator...I'm not technically minded do not sure what this does but could be the cause (it certainly was on my dads 997)
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