Discussion
I already own it, I printed a bit of paper off and charged myself £36.74. So its mine. Hands off. My space marines are there now and will shoot any trespassers.
At the moment I expect many people are scammed for a bit of "fun". But the big companies and governments have got to be wondering how far they can go.
At the moment I expect many people are scammed for a bit of "fun". But the big companies and governments have got to be wondering how far they can go.
Just finished it on catch up. Lots of people thinking it should be fair, but I suspect hard nosed business types will muscle with ruthless abandon. Interesting that the silly bits of paper you can buy saying you own a bit have never been tested. I expect someone with a lot of money can bulldoze something through. I fancy someone is going to get rich out of the moon and not governments.
Eric Mc said:
Once it become accessible to private enterprise (which is very, very close now)
As in getting a man to the moon and returning him safely to Earth? Otherwise I don't see how firing probes at it is going to decide anything. Governments make the laws not private enterprise. Even if they can't send a moon warden to enforce them there's a company on Earth to fine and people to jail.Simpo Two said:
Governments make the laws not private enterprise. Even if they can't send a moon warden to enforce them there's a company on Earth to fine and people to jail.
Part of that show brought up the "gentleman's agreement" from Aploo to this moment and that bit of paper I can print off and rob someone of money for has never been tested in a court of law let alone international law. A 1970's attempt at the UN was never ratified. I expect if Russia landed a person on the Moon today, they will not exactly be friendly to the idea of sharing it out, or China for that matter.We seem to have moved from private enterprise to countries. Private enterprise may get a man on the moon - though I doubt soon - but only countries make laws and start wars.
Realistically there will only be a few handfuls of people up there so there's room for everyone. And that's not even considering how to get whatever is valuable there back to Earth. So for the moment I think the question is academic.
Realistically there will only be a few handfuls of people up there so there's room for everyone. And that's not even considering how to get whatever is valuable there back to Earth. So for the moment I think the question is academic.
I'm not so sure about your contention that only countries start war. There have been quite a few examples of wars being conducted by capitalists of various hues over the centuries - whether it be connected with opium, beef, or just general commerce (the East India Company springs to mind).
What will be really interesting is that I feel that the EXPLOITATION of space (as opposed to the exploration of space) will follow very similar lines to the way commerce drove the expansion of Europe in the 16th to 19th centuries.
An awful lot of that expansion was commercially driven. What tended to happen was that,. once the entrepeneurs were established in the foreign territory, the states from which they came from found themselves (sometimes enthusiastically, sometimes reluctantly) getting involved in the affairs of these foreign locations.
We are in for some very interesting future history as the human race starts expanding again for the first time in over a century.
What will be really interesting is that I feel that the EXPLOITATION of space (as opposed to the exploration of space) will follow very similar lines to the way commerce drove the expansion of Europe in the 16th to 19th centuries.
An awful lot of that expansion was commercially driven. What tended to happen was that,. once the entrepeneurs were established in the foreign territory, the states from which they came from found themselves (sometimes enthusiastically, sometimes reluctantly) getting involved in the affairs of these foreign locations.
We are in for some very interesting future history as the human race starts expanding again for the first time in over a century.
East India company was an example I was thinking of as well. It is one of the reason we became the naval power we did. China at the moment is skulking around the globe ingratiating itself with countries where there are resources to be had. That also means influence, and being able to dictate things to a point, if not in reality but if they wanted to. Not far to call for support should they want to claim something and gain support. I think it will get very cavalier and cut throat unless it is nailed early but even then, how to you enforce someone not taking Apollo 11 remains for example if you cannot go there?
Eric Mc said:
I'm not so sure about your contention that only countries start war. There have been quite a few examples of wars being conducted by capitalists of various hues over the centuries - whether it be connected with opium, beef, or just general commerce (the East India Company springs to mind)
The EIC was principally a money-making operation that used military force as required to protect those interests. But the world was a very different place then, and the EIC could, with relative ease, visit/trade with/enforce the places it was operating in. The Government of the day was no doubt happy with their business as it brought wealth to the empire.Another example perhaps is the business with the Spice Islands, which IIRC came before the EIC and got quite nasty as we fought the Dutch over them.
But all of this does not answer a practical question. The moon does not grow small, light, high value things - anything it has will be in the form of rocks and minerals. Damn heavy. So you discover an outcrop of something useful on the moon - how do you get anything worthwhile back to Earth?
What if someone can identify a site, return a chunk with no humans, then go looking for further investment? Look at this chunk, loads of stuff in it that we can use.
I seem to remember reading that a government adds a lot of overheads to projects, a small operation but with a governments blessing maybe?
I seem to remember reading that a government adds a lot of overheads to projects, a small operation but with a governments blessing maybe?
Simpo Two said:
True but if we're talking private enterprise, the amount of rock/gubbins you can bring back to Earth has got to pay for the whole mission. How much does a moonshot cost and what is on the moon that could pay for it?
Who say the rocks and gubbins need go back to earth?The moon as a resource will come into its own when assembly and manufacturing is actually taking place on the moon itself or in space (in earth orbit, lunar orbit or in stable Legrange points, for example).
Eric Mc said:
Who say the rocks and gubbins need go back to earth?
The moon as a resource will come into its own when assembly and manufacturing is actually taking place on the moon itself or in space (in earth orbit, lunar orbit or in stable Legrange points, for example).
Mmm, so my new TV is ready but on the Moon. And an assembled product will be even heavier than the small amount of valuable stuff that went into it. Any chance of free delivery?The moon as a resource will come into its own when assembly and manufacturing is actually taking place on the moon itself or in space (in earth orbit, lunar orbit or in stable Legrange points, for example).
I think with the current level of progress and spending on space you're in the realms of science fiction.
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