Client done a runner; where to serve papers?
Discussion
A friend of mine has a small but annoying debt from a client (limited company) who it turns out has been running up quite a trail of debt. Being nice hasn't worked so I'm encouraging him to go legal via Small Claims.
The invoice was originally sent to the company and a check at Companies House shows it is still trading. However a follow-up letter sent to that address came back marked as 'Not known/moved away'. My friend has visited the premises and found them empty.
Should he send the Summons to the last known address, or to the company's registered address if different, or to the debtor's home address if he can find it?
People cannot escape justice simply by pretending not to be in, or running away, so there must be an option where 'papers are deemed to have been served'. What procedure would the court be most happy with in this situation?
Many thanks.
The invoice was originally sent to the company and a check at Companies House shows it is still trading. However a follow-up letter sent to that address came back marked as 'Not known/moved away'. My friend has visited the premises and found them empty.
Should he send the Summons to the last known address, or to the company's registered address if different, or to the debtor's home address if he can find it?
People cannot escape justice simply by pretending not to be in, or running away, so there must be an option where 'papers are deemed to have been served'. What procedure would the court be most happy with in this situation?
Many thanks.
Someone who knows what they are talking about will be along soon, but even if you do serve the papers and take him to court, you'll then be faced with the problem of getting the money out of him.
How big is the debt? How much hassle will it be to get the money? How much will it cost and what are the odds of success? (Would it be easier to simply drop it, annoying as it may be.)
Oli.
How big is the debt? How much hassle will it be to get the money? How much will it cost and what are the odds of success? (Would it be easier to simply drop it, annoying as it may be.)
Oli.
boxst said:
I thought that if it is a limited company, the debt lies with that and not with the person.
It does, but what he is anxious to do is try to get the Summons under his nose, rather than a 'gone away' mark.zcacogp said:
How big is the debt? How much hassle will it be to get the money? How much will it cost and what are the odds of success? (Would it be easier to simply drop it, annoying as it may be.)
Agree entirely, and the sum is only around £300, but this is a 'justice' case. My friend is scrupulously fair and doesn't like it when people try to play silly buggers. He has enough time to do what is necessary, whatever the conclusion is.ETA; aha some more guns have arrived, excellent. Thanks all, I will pass the info on
ETA: Justin P1, your reply disappeared...?
Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 7th May 10:45
Zcacogp talks sense.
However, if he is determined to do it the papers should be served at the registered office.
Directors can become liable for the company's debts if it can be shown that they were running an insolvent company and that they acted inappropriately. Showing this can be difficult, lengthy and costly.
However, if he is determined to do it the papers should be served at the registered office.
Directors can become liable for the company's debts if it can be shown that they were running an insolvent company and that they acted inappropriately. Showing this can be difficult, lengthy and costly.
Simpo Two said:
So, if he sends the Summons to the registered address, and they come back marked 'gone away', what does he do?
It's a legal requirement to maintain a current registered office.My guess would be that should the court send papers to the registered office, it would be deemed as served.
The problem then becomes that your mate has got a judgment in default at a cost of £30 on court fees, but how does he enforce it? Is he going to spend money getting bailiffs to visit an empty address?
That's the problem.
If it were me, I would be more creative in my approach for restitution....
JustinP1 said:
Simpo Two said:
So, if he sends the Summons to the registered address, and they come back marked 'gone away', what does he do?
It's a legal requirement to maintain a current registered office.My guess would be that should the court send papers to the registered office, it would be deemed as served.
The problem then becomes that your mate has got a judgment in default at a cost of £30 on court fees, but how does he enforce it? Is he going to spend money getting bailiffs to visit an empty address?
That's the problem.
If it were me, I would be more creative in my approach for restitution....
OP has followed everything to a tee, using their registered address, got the judgement, etc... They had to then track them down due to their slackness at updating the address, so I dont see the issue?
If it were me I would extract the same amount owed in their services or work, pay on credit card and then charge it back and let them find out what it is like,
Terminator X said:
If only your friend was TFL as they get the Police to stop people on the road using their anpr systems then the bailiffs take over and either get paid or take the vehicle.
TX.
Do you mean if he worked for Transport for London?TX.
The small claims system is indeed laughable, when you compare it with how you go to prison if you don't pay a parking fine or council tax. Perhaps if people about to get a CCJ had the choice of Pay or Prison a lot more small businesses would have better cashflow.
Du1point8 said:
JustinP1 said:
Simpo Two said:
So, if he sends the Summons to the registered address, and they come back marked 'gone away', what does he do?
It's a legal requirement to maintain a current registered office.My guess would be that should the court send papers to the registered office, it would be deemed as served.
The problem then becomes that your mate has got a judgment in default at a cost of £30 on court fees, but how does he enforce it? Is he going to spend money getting bailiffs to visit an empty address?
That's the problem.
If it were me, I would be more creative in my approach for restitution....
OP has followed everything to a tee, using their registered address, got the judgement, etc... They had to then track them down due to their slackness at updating the address, so I dont see the issue?
If it were me I would extract the same amount owed in their services or work, pay on credit card and then charge it back and let them find out what it is like,
He can of course do that, but the company may be in the process of being folded.
So, you might invest £30 getting the judgment, more again up front employing bailiffs, County Court ones who have very limited powers, without an address with company assets to take.
In short, my creative solution would be to do as you've said in your final sentence...
If they have no assets then it's going to be difficult to enforce. But I think I'd be tempted to serve at the Reg'd Office to keep the Courts happy but also copy the documents to the Director's (or plural) home address which you'll be able to get for a small fee - perhaps someone on here has Riskdisk or similar?
That may concentrate their mind as they'd then be unsure if your friend was going to keep visiting them at home (there are rules against harassment but even keeping within them, the uncertainty factor may help) and/or what action would be taken. If they're a bit dodgy then they will expect other people to be dodgy too and that apprehension could work in chummy's favour without him actually doing anything dodgy himself iyswim.
But ultimately, if that has no effect, then you need to work out what the Company actually owns - and can be proven to own. And then send in the Bailiffs. But employ decent ones, County Court ones are not always the best. If you can pay the fee to have it moved to the High Court Sherrifs then their powers are much greater and generally take less s
t...
I'm no expert but a mate of mine is - always happy to recommend Colin at www.matrixlegal.co.uk and there's JamesUK(?) on here who has a good reputation too.
There's a strong chance that the Company is in the process of phoenixing though so try & move swiftly.
That may concentrate their mind as they'd then be unsure if your friend was going to keep visiting them at home (there are rules against harassment but even keeping within them, the uncertainty factor may help) and/or what action would be taken. If they're a bit dodgy then they will expect other people to be dodgy too and that apprehension could work in chummy's favour without him actually doing anything dodgy himself iyswim.
But ultimately, if that has no effect, then you need to work out what the Company actually owns - and can be proven to own. And then send in the Bailiffs. But employ decent ones, County Court ones are not always the best. If you can pay the fee to have it moved to the High Court Sherrifs then their powers are much greater and generally take less s
t...I'm no expert but a mate of mine is - always happy to recommend Colin at www.matrixlegal.co.uk and there's JamesUK(?) on here who has a good reputation too.
There's a strong chance that the Company is in the process of phoenixing though so try & move swiftly.
Pot Bellied Fool said:
But ultimately, if that has no effect, then you need to work out what the Company actually owns - and can be proven to own. And then send in the Bailiffs. But employ decent ones, County Court ones are not always the best. If you can pay the fee to have it moved to the High Court Sherrifs then their powers are much greater and generally take less st...
Debts under £600 can't be escalated for High Court enforcement. t...If you're chasing an individual with assets then escalating to High Court bailiffs is very powerful as it costs you £60 or so, and they do have the authority to turn up and take stuff.
If you've got assets, there's no more escaping a debt.
However, an the other end of the scale the OP's mate is chasing a Ltd Co with no known assets and no address. Also IIRC as oppose to High Court bailiffs who get paid as a percentage on top of the amount collected, with the County Court ones, if there's failed attempts to enforce, that will cost the OP's mate money each time.
I don't think he's really expecting to get paid, he just wants to stick one on him, as it were. If the money turns up that will be a bonus. As in my own case a few years ago, the time, aggro and effort involved does not make practical sense, it's the determination not to let the bds get away with it that's the motivation.
ds get away with it that's the motivation.Simpo Two said:
I don't think he's really expecting to get paid, he just wants to stick one on him, as it were. If the money turns up that will be a bonus. As in my own case a few years ago, the time, aggro and effort involved does not make practical sense, it's the determination not to let the bds get away with it that's the motivation.
I'd actually argue in your case the value of the debt meaning that it could be escalated to the High Court and that the debt was against an individual not a Ltd Co meant that the chances of successful enforcement are/were an order of magnitude higher than in this particular situation.ds get away with it that's the motivation.Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff