Waterless coolant - snake oil?
Discussion
I found this stuff the other day
http://www.evanscoolant.co.uk/index.html
It's stonkingly expensive but does it do anything over a decent anti-freeze? Any experiences out there, particularly with pre-war cars?
http://www.evanscoolant.co.uk/index.html
It's stonkingly expensive but does it do anything over a decent anti-freeze? Any experiences out there, particularly with pre-war cars?
Evans is as you say shockingly expensive ,I did some fishing about over last winterand am at present running John Deere [agri equipment] waterless coolantin my mildly twaked 2.1 pinto with seeming sucsess it has held temps at 15/90 ,just where I like it , I don't know how much the alloy rad fitted helps too need more miles before comment don't know the cost ,help full nephew supplied it
I have a pre-war car with an unpressurised cooling system that does few miles a year so I'm interested primarily in the potential corrosion prevention benefits and the longevity. Plus there's lots of brass and copper in the system. Something that would last for many years might be worth it.
TheRealFingers99 said:
Actually installing the waterless stuff will be a real ball-ache. You need to get all the water out.
The advantages are obvious, but, if your car isn't stressed in the cooling department, a good flushing agent followed by a back purge and the 5 year red stuff is the way I'd go.
Not really.The advantages are obvious, but, if your car isn't stressed in the cooling department, a good flushing agent followed by a back purge and the 5 year red stuff is the way I'd go.
I feel, over a period of time, more folk will come forward with having problems using waterless coolant, starting with race engines and working down to cars such as MGAs which can run a little too warm, then down to cars less likely to get hot, it will just take time. Like LD50 testing 
Peter
Peter
PeterBurgess said:
I feel, over a period of time, more folk will come forward with having problems using waterless coolant, starting with race engines and working down to cars such as MGAs which can run a little too warm, then down to cars less likely to get hot, it will just take time. Like LD50 testing
Peter
Waterless coolant has a pretty good track record in diesels by now. John Deere don't mess around. You'll not see widespread use in everyday cars until/unless the price comes down. And then, rot aside, the advantages for everyday cars will be small. Peter
I cannot comment on tractors.
With classic cars.
The Waterless Coolant tends to increase engine temp by around 12 degrees c which is both unwanted and unwelcome to start with. It takes around 4 bhp over water antifreeze to pump it round the block. It removes/rejects heat a lot less efficiently than water. We Have lost a race engine twice to waterless coolant, no other reason as spare engines did the same till coolant replaced with water. This last week we have had two folk with MGAs ring up and subsequently run cooler with water/antifreeze mix. Folks with Jags have been phoning, same thing. Folks with Healey 100/4s and 100/6s same thing. The list will go on as time passes.
I attach a graph of with/without waterless coolant, lower dotted line(torque) and lower solid line (bhp) was with waterless coolant. Had to retard timing so much to stop pinking we lost bottom end power too!
Peter
With classic cars.
The Waterless Coolant tends to increase engine temp by around 12 degrees c which is both unwanted and unwelcome to start with. It takes around 4 bhp over water antifreeze to pump it round the block. It removes/rejects heat a lot less efficiently than water. We Have lost a race engine twice to waterless coolant, no other reason as spare engines did the same till coolant replaced with water. This last week we have had two folk with MGAs ring up and subsequently run cooler with water/antifreeze mix. Folks with Jags have been phoning, same thing. Folks with Healey 100/4s and 100/6s same thing. The list will go on as time passes.
I attach a graph of with/without waterless coolant, lower dotted line(torque) and lower solid line (bhp) was with waterless coolant. Had to retard timing so much to stop pinking we lost bottom end power too!
Peter
Frankly, without seeing full details of install, etc., I'd not want to comment over much. It's certainly no silver bullet.
It should offer less effective heat transfer than water/anti-freeze. It should also be much less prone to cavitation. This is the nature of the beast.
I'd no more generalise from the use of it in tweaked MR2 tubs (in the States) without apparent problems than from your issues with classics not exactly renowned for their cooling on racetracks.
But can't (or shouldn't) these folk fit bigger -- or at least ducted -- radiators?
It should offer less effective heat transfer than water/anti-freeze. It should also be much less prone to cavitation. This is the nature of the beast.
I'd no more generalise from the use of it in tweaked MR2 tubs (in the States) without apparent problems than from your issues with classics not exactly renowned for their cooling on racetracks.
But can't (or shouldn't) these folk fit bigger -- or at least ducted -- radiators?
One needs neither a bigger radiator nor a 'special' water pump when using water/antifreeze. I think some of the argument is, why fix what ain't broke, especially when the fix may not be as effective as the original?
The OP asked for folks feedback. I have been watching the effects of the coolant for a couple of years. So I gave feedback based on personal experience and from customers and also folk ringing up for advice. If the waterless coolant worked better than water I would readily say so, but, as we have found the opposite I have to say that.
We use and recommend straight water in race cars, maybe with corrosion inhibitor then water/antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor for road cars.
Peter
The OP asked for folks feedback. I have been watching the effects of the coolant for a couple of years. So I gave feedback based on personal experience and from customers and also folk ringing up for advice. If the waterless coolant worked better than water I would readily say so, but, as we have found the opposite I have to say that.
We use and recommend straight water in race cars, maybe with corrosion inhibitor then water/antifreeze/corrosion inhibitor for road cars.
Peter
I think I'll stick with water/anti-freeze in the pre-war car. There don't seem to be any clear-cut benefits to justify the price differential and some evidence that it may be less good in some respects. My car doesn't run hot, just as well as it's unpressurised, and it's a lazy, low-output engine. I'll have to stick older type antifreeze though, I believe the modern long-life stuff isn't good with old engines.
Anyone with an older car (ie 20th Century) might like to read this:
http://www.rrbew.co.uk/Pdfs/Derek%20Harris%20Antif...
It seems there's more to antifreeze than meets the eye.
Anyone with an older car (ie 20th Century) might like to read this:
http://www.rrbew.co.uk/Pdfs/Derek%20Harris%20Antif...
It seems there's more to antifreeze than meets the eye.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 12th May 08:46
Hi folks ,I went into all the available ones inc one from australia [ they were willing to ship to me ] and the J.D. stuff came up in conversation with my nephew who runs various lumps of agri machinery and swears by it . Costs? dont know he supplied me with 15 litres FOC . My R.H. has a 2.1 pinto in it and even with a big cored rad was marginal on cooling [it survived 3 trips to LeMans] but had me worried at times ,after having Pete Burgess modify a cyl head I decided to uprate the cooling system ,I located an alloy rs 2000radiator at a good price and then filled it with the JD stuff ,up to yet AOK but have only done 3/400 miles mainly at my cruise speed [?] but temps are down 10 degs 95 to 85 , will idle comfortably with only minimal fan cut in , perf is unchanged as is economy but it is rarely taken to max in other than 1and 2 , other details silicone hoses , two thermo fans , suck and blow catch tank, cossy thermostat 82, after a r/r session with Pete it gave 144bhp on asingle 38 dgsa and is ideal for my intended use , its not a track day car and will never out handle a caterthing but it does every thing Iwant
Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff