Website 3DS Paranoia!
Discussion
OK, had a half decent transaction come though that has passed 3DS on all counts (enrolled, auth & sig status). According to Verified by Visa liability shifts to the card issuer. I've spoken with our merchant business team who confirm this & also that the card holder address is the same as the delivery address we have.
So why am I paranoid? Because over the weekend they tried the same order, passed 3DS & was declined by the bank. Yesterday they tried again via Pay Pal, transaction went through but was flagged for review by Pay Pal. This was declined, reason was issuing bank.
So I've done everything I can & to all intents & purposes the transaction is now valid.
Am I covered? Would you ship the order?
So why am I paranoid? Because over the weekend they tried the same order, passed 3DS & was declined by the bank. Yesterday they tried again via Pay Pal, transaction went through but was flagged for review by Pay Pal. This was declined, reason was issuing bank.
So I've done everything I can & to all intents & purposes the transaction is now valid.
Am I covered? Would you ship the order?
Simpo Two said:
How about clicking 'refund' and asking for a bank transfer instead? Or just decline the deal; there is no law that says you have to sell them anything.
That was my thinking. No, no law saying we have to sell but this week has been awful so could really do with it. The card is registered to an address in London, billing address & delivery address are the same. According to the 3DS data liability shifts to the card issuer but something tells me it's never that simple!!The way I'm reading that, the customer has tried to order three times, is that right?
Once has been successfully auth'd through 3DS, another failed bank auth and the final failed paypal?
That rings alarm bells.
Is the order extraordinary? First time customer, next day delivery, high value, products that are often ordered fraudulently?
As a last ditch, final check, stick their postcode in here and see how it's rated, does it fit your customer demographic: http://www.checkmyfile.com/postcode-check/SW1A-2AA...
You could also have a look on streetview to check out the area.
Once has been successfully auth'd through 3DS, another failed bank auth and the final failed paypal?
That rings alarm bells.
Is the order extraordinary? First time customer, next day delivery, high value, products that are often ordered fraudulently?
As a last ditch, final check, stick their postcode in here and see how it's rated, does it fit your customer demographic: http://www.checkmyfile.com/postcode-check/SW1A-2AA...
You could also have a look on streetview to check out the area.
Yep, they tried 3 times, (1) Paid via card passed 3DS declined by bank (2) Paid via Pay Pal, flagged for review, declined by bank (3)Paid via card, passed 3DS & accepted by bank. Liability shifts to card issuer according to the matrix table I have. No, it's not a high value item but a larger qty (45 of them). I'll take a look at that post code checker. Like I say my gut is cancel & refund. The fact that we've had a poor week & this would bump it up makes it tempting, especially since the liability does not appear to be with us. Not morally correct though IMO!!
Banks will often decline transactions on behalf of their cardholders if they think it looks dodgy / doesn't fit their spending pattern etc. (I don't know how this works in all honesty), sometimes we have customers who have to ring their bank to have the block taken off for example, a pattern of one or more failed attempts followed by a successful one, on the same card wouldn't necessarily worry me. lots of different cards for the same customer is another matter of course and would have me concerned.
if the billing address matches and is being used for delivery, and the 3ds check has gone through, you would not normally be liable for a chargeback based on fraudulent use of the card (not in our experience anyway !)
if the billing address matches and is being used for delivery, and the 3ds check has gone through, you would not normally be liable for a chargeback based on fraudulent use of the card (not in our experience anyway !)
Where are they in London.
I agree I they are a real customer, and they have difficulty ordering / paying and you can see that then call them, tell them your concerns and ask for a bank tx it is their first order.
ALL my customers pay up front for hardware with labour later and no one bats an eye at that request.
V.
I agree I they are a real customer, and they have difficulty ordering / paying and you can see that then call them, tell them your concerns and ask for a bank tx it is their first order.
ALL my customers pay up front for hardware with labour later and no one bats an eye at that request.
V.
jammy_basturd said:
What was the timescale between the 1st, 2nd and 3rd orders? Guy might not have had any money in his bank account for the 1st and 2nd orders and then got paid or transferred some in?
They first tried Saturday, then came back Monday then eventually paid Wednesday. They've tried two cards in total but the same card was also used on all 3 occasions.VEX said:
Where are they in London.
I agree I they are a real customer, and they have difficulty ordering / paying and you can see that then call them, tell them your concerns and ask for a bank tx it is their first order.
ALL my customers pay up front for hardware with labour later and no one bats an eye at that request.
V.
Marconi RoadI agree I they are a real customer, and they have difficulty ordering / paying and you can see that then call them, tell them your concerns and ask for a bank tx it is their first order.
ALL my customers pay up front for hardware with labour later and no one bats an eye at that request.
V.
E10 7
To be honest if it were fraud there are much easier things to buy & sell on.
Dave_ST220 said:
OllieC said:
if the billing address matches and is being used for delivery, and the 3ds check has gone through, you would not normally be liable for a chargeback based on fraudulent use of the card (not in our experience anyway !)
Yeah that's what my look up matrix says 
I would say this - your natural senses developed by years in business seem eroded by the fact you are a bit light this month. The fact you are a bit short of work does not make the validity of the buyer any greater. At present it seems to be one of those 'How lucky do you feel?' situations as you cannot prove it 100%. Maybe it is 95% but are you prepared to gamble and lose?
Only I can make the decision 
It's annoying as 3DS is supposed to make this black & white. I'm awaiting a call back from the customer, if they don't call I think that says it all...
On a side note what do we think the fraud is here? Load up a card & flog the items elsewhere to get cash? Although can't you just get cash out on a credit card? (never used a credit card for cash, in fact never use the credit card I have, only got it as was advised it improved credit rating!1)
It's annoying as 3DS is supposed to make this black & white. I'm awaiting a call back from the customer, if they don't call I think that says it all...On a side note what do we think the fraud is here? Load up a card & flog the items elsewhere to get cash? Although can't you just get cash out on a credit card? (never used a credit card for cash, in fact never use the credit card I have, only got it as was advised it improved credit rating!1)
I honestly don't think it'll be fraud. I think it's someone who couldn't afford to pay for the order until Wednesday.
If you're going to commit fraud you don't buy 45 of an item. You buy one (or a few) items so you can sell them on easily. Or you buy items on a card and ask for a refund in cash/to a different card, but that requires the person to go into a store.
If you're going to commit fraud you don't buy 45 of an item. You buy one (or a few) items so you can sell them on easily. Or you buy items on a card and ask for a refund in cash/to a different card, but that requires the person to go into a store.
jammy_basturd said:
I honestly don't think it'll be fraud. I think it's someone who couldn't afford to pay for the order until Wednesday.
If you're going to commit fraud you don't buy 45 of an item. You buy one (or a few) items so you can sell them on easily. Or you buy items on a card and ask for a refund in cash/to a different card, but that requires the person to go into a store.
The fact that they tried alternative payments until they got one to work might also mean the other payment methods had been marked as compromised already. Was the card used the same for both attempts?If you're going to commit fraud you don't buy 45 of an item. You buy one (or a few) items so you can sell them on easily. Or you buy items on a card and ask for a refund in cash/to a different card, but that requires the person to go into a store.
WRT not buying 45 of something if you're committing fraud, that's exactly what they do. In my experience, multiple items that are easy to sell either on eBay or local black market.
The fraudsters usually do not have the card or PIN so they cannot simply go to a cash point.
Dave - how did it go?
Well we spoke to our merchant account provider who then emailed me so I have it in writing saying we are covered. The goods went yesterday via UPS so should be there today. The mark up is great so the loss would be minimal in any case. Sure will be interesting to see how this pans out!!
ETA:- They only used two cards in total, one never went through (passed 3DS though), the other did later in the week. I would think (hope!) that the bank would have flagged the card from the previous attempts if they were concerned at all??
ETA:- They only used two cards in total, one never went through (passed 3DS though), the other did later in the week. I would think (hope!) that the bank would have flagged the card from the previous attempts if they were concerned at all??
Edited by Dave_ST220 on Friday 16th May 10:42
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