If your kids school were to bring back caning as an option

[elanfan]

Mods could you leave here please as this follows on from a post made by Nadger in the school bullying thread - extract:

"In my school we would internally isolate the student for a period of time (probably a week), send a letter home detailing the isolation so that would be on his file, follow up the internal isolation with a week of free time isolation (the kid would be with me at break and lunch, which rather offensively they find really boring ) and they'd have to sign an anti bullying agreement. Now, you may be thinking 'is that all'? I'm afraid that's one of the negative consequences of inclusive education!"

Taking this scenario as read I guess many would like to see firmer action hence this poll. The lack of respect for teachers since caning was banned has now expanded exponentially through our society and is where the rot started??

To expand if the school your children attend (or I guess attended) were to bring back caning providing parents were to agree to it, would you sign up. In my book future caning would have to be carried out by a teacher not involved in anyway with whatever the issue was and for the purpose of ensuring it was too 'enthusiastic' it would have to be recorded.

Edited by elanfan on Thursday 15th May 10:43

[Terminator X]

Brutal, no thanks. Imho there still is respect between kids and adults you just don't see it reported in the Daily Wail etc.

TX.

[elanfan]

There will be many on here who have experienced caning first hand - suspect (though don't know for certain) that most will say it never did them any harm.

I recall more the fear of waiting for the punishment to be carried out than the actual pain though obviously it did hurt at the time. For me it was something I never wanted to experience and thus it was a VERY effective deterrent to me at least.

I'm certainly not suggesting wanton use of the cane but certain bullies and generally unpleasant kids would I'm sure be less difficult if this was an ultimate/eventual punishment option after other routes had been exhausted.

BTW - I agree that in general there does seem to be a lot more respect between most kids and most teachers. I suspect teaching styles have had to change from the more authoritarian style of my generation. This said my kids come home with regular tales of what the thugs and chavs in their school have been up to. I just think that a good proportion of these types will be a lot less trouble knowing what the outcome could be.

It seems to me that the 'no consequence for my actions generation' turn into what seems to be a much larger proportion of troublemakers today (and no I don't read the Daily Wail).

Edited by elanfan on Thursday 15th May 00:36

[MrTrilby]

There was plenty of respect for teachers at the school that I attended, and the practice of caning children had ended long before I went there. If you get to the point where you feel physical punishment is your only resort, you have failed. You don't beat respect into people, only fear and resentment.

[jimbop1]

Terminator X said:

Brutal, no thanks. Imho there still is respect between kids and adults you just don't see it reported in the Daily Wail etc.

TX.

There definitely isn't, I see it with my own eyes.

All this is down to no discipline. Not just in school but at home as well.

It should be brought back but it shouldn't be down to the parents to ok it or not.

[Spangles]

MrTrilby said:

There was plenty of respect for teachers at the school that I attended, and the practice of caning children had ended long before I went there. If you get to the point where you feel physical punishment is your only resort, you have failed. You don't beat respect into people, only fear and resentment.

Exactly. You want to teach children the only answer to a problem is violence?

[Rovinghawk]

"Law, without force, is impotent"

Pascale.

[Mr Snap]

Not sure that messing about with children's bottoms will do much for the general reputation of teachers...

[williamp]

I suppose school will give them respite from working up chimneys...

[dingg]

we had caning at school (all boys grammar) across your arse too

it fking hurt and left a cross of weals (one strike on the upswing and one on the downswing) which turned into bruises , the headmaster had a light when you could enter his office, red and green , to take the punishment. Not many people went back twice.

I'd have been prepared for my lad to be beaten (because thats what it is) in the same way.

But I'm 'old school' and not very 'pc'

[Fozziebear]

I got cane at school, once, I behaved for the rest of the time through the fear of visiting the heads office again. One kid on my street would get the belt from his dad if he messed up, after a couple of years he just laughed at his dad when he did it. Some kids learn from punishment, some just adapt and carry on. It's the same for adults that go to prison, some come out and never reoffend, others rob the 1st person they see. I think you need to combine respect, rules and education with guides for young parents on how best to be a responsible member of society.

[Eclassy]

I wouldnt sign up for it. While the majority of teachers would use it as a last resort and justifiably, in these days which we live, there will always be that miserable sadist teacher who would use it as a release for the frustratiin in their personal lives.

I say this as someone who grew up in a country where anyone (neighbours, teachers, parents, senior students) could whip out a cane and use it on a naughty child. I even had my fair share of the horsewhip and although I believe it shaped my life (I hope for good), I couldnt trust anyone enough to let them cane my child.

[Derek Smith]

Rovinghawk said:

"Law, without force, is impotent"

Pascale.

Isn't this about what you think, rather that second hand comments? And it is Pascal. I'll wager he would not be happy with the misspelling.

There is a major difference, hardly subtle, between force and violence.

We have ample evidence of people abusing their authority to inflict injury on children. It gives a section of the community a bit of a kick it seems. To then step into the arena with a suggestion that we should again open up chances for people to abuse their positions and, more importantly, children is going against the evidence I think.

If the question was whether teaches should be allowed, in certain circumstances, to manhandle children then that would be different for me.

I was subject to physical beatings at school. Not many, but enough for me to remember. It was always from the same teacher and I was not his only target. Looking back, it is obvious that he had his problems, his own little devil. He had failed at his original choice of career and had decided to take up teaching to bide him over. And he failed at that as well. The physical punishment for, in essence, being badly taught, never hurt me so to speak but didn't teach me anything other than those in authority blame others for their lack of ability. It was, to me, a sing of (further?) failure.

I wasn't a goody-two-shoes but those who went regularly for caning by the headmaster, a bloke who came from a little school in Wales straight into a largish school in a rough area of London and found that his skills were all but useless, wore their canings with pride. It was almost a club. It might, in fact did I think, make them more careful but it certainly didn't make them 'respect' the headmaster.

So in brief: no to caning, yes to manhandling.

[Kawasicki]

It wasn't effective on me. I was cheeky (not nasty) and got beaten, it didn't do me any harm, but it didn't make me any less cheeky.

[eatcustard]

I got the Cane for something that I did not do, I was blamed by a few other kids who did not like me.

Teachers are teachers, not judge and jury, so for me no way would I want the cane back.

[Snowboy]

A tentative Yes from me.
It's the nuclear deterrent.
It would need to be handled well though - just the headmaster, and two other teachers to approve (or something like that).


I'd rather kids be taught respect by parents before they reach school.
I'd rather kids had self discipline and not need it to be imposed on them.

But, that doesn't happen.
So the schools need some tools to maintain discipline.

The threat of caning is just one tool.
It wouldn't be used for every rule infraction.

My old school had the cane. In the 7 years I was there it was used twice.
Iirc the choice was expulsion or cane.
In both cases the kid chose cane.

[grumbledoak]

As with smacking a toddler's bum, I believe it should be allowed as a last resort.

I like the sound of "Expulsion or cane" choice - that would remind them that they are making choices that affect their future.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

jimbop1 said:

Terminator X said:

Brutal, no thanks. Imho there still is respect between kids and adults you just don't see it reported in the Daily Wail etc.

TX.

There definitely isn't, I see it with my own eyes.

There actually is. I see it with my own eyes.

[Derek Smith]

Snowboy said:

I's the nuclear deterrent.

Perhaps you are right as mutually assured destruction comes into it nowadays.

Your school seems to have kept it as the ultimate punishment. In my school, and that of my brother, used it as the first option. Some morning there would be a queue outside the headmaster's office. Some teachers would not report poor conduct.

[Rovinghawk]

Derek Smith said:

Isn't this about what you think, rather that second hand comments?

It is what I think; you can have all the authority you want, but if you can't back it up then you can be laughed at.

My English teacher made a comment that sums up my view: force is acceptable if done in cold blood for good reason- it should never be done in anger and only when other alternatives won't work.

I look at it similarly to use of hammers as a tool- only hit it with a hammer if a hammer is the correct tool for the job, not because you're frustrated.