Graphics and Loud exhaust

[mrcityrunner]

Hello... new here...

Just wondering if anyone can recommend a place that will design and implement cool/crazy graphics on my Porsche... fancy a change from the all white car now... (Im based in Swindon but drive to London quite a lot).

Also, I have PSE... but its just not loud enough (the new 991 is much much louder and nicer)... any ideas how to make it really roar?

Thanks a lot...

Rax

[BertBert]

I asked a similar question and got the following...not done anything about it yet though...

graemel said:

Have a chat with Alan at Richochet signs. [e-mail] He did the masks for my SSE and does all of Paragons work. Good bloke

[mrcityrunner]

Great thanks for that Bert... will look into it... appreciated

[Callughan]

yeah 991 PSE sounds very good!

agree 997.2 PSE sounds muted, without changing whole exhaust you can fit an X pipe.

[mrcityrunner]

Hi callughan....is the x pipe better than the ones that bend rather than cross? I notoce some debate on the matter...just wondering which youve got if youve modded it?

Thanks

Rax

[Callughan]

Have heard fabspeed on gts and was impressive!

Would suggest you go on 6speedonline for all the options.

I've always just had PSE for warranty reasons, on 996 is was the best on 997 was good but not great.

Edited by Callughan on Tuesday 20th May 10:35

[hondansx]

The 997.2 is particularly quiet with the PSE. I was looking at Innotech, they do a full exhaust and it sounds the best from the clips i've seen.

[Ian_UK1]

I wonder if my own experiences of trying to improve the sound of the 997S.2 might be of use to the OP?

I currently have a Sharkwerks centre-silencer bypass pipe on my car (http://www.sharkwerks.com/products.php?pid=193).

This is the piccy of the part from their site:



This is a pair of lightweight pipes (welded together to form a single unit) that completely replaces the centre silencer. It's lighter (right at the very back of the car, where it benefits weight distribution most) freer-flowing (the two very-tight, internal U-bends inside the Porsche centre silencer are eliminated) and hugely improves the car's sound (as there literally isn't any from an unmodified 997S.2)!

I've also replaced the side silencers on mine with Gert Carnewal's very cleverly modified 'RSR's. These are original Porsche silencers that are modified internally - the clever bit being you can't tell, visually, that any modification has ever been done. These further improve and deepen the overall sound. The combination of the Sharkwerks and Carnewals is of similar loudness to the 991 PSE, but IMHO, is a much sweeter-sounding combination.

The Sharkwerks pipe also works with the PSE side silencers (and associated valving). Sharkwerks claims a +10BHP improvement due to the elimination of the U-bends - not enough to feel, but believable (and good to know it's an improvement, rather than a backwards step).

There are sound clips on the Sharkwerks site - both with the standard Porsche silencers and the PSE silencers.

I'm happy recommend both the Sharkwerks pipe and the Carnewal silencers. I've also found both companies to offer excellent customer service.

Ian

Edited to add: Before settling on the above combination, I also bought a (used) cat-back Tubi system to try on my car. This consists of a crossover pipe set (similar to the Sharkwerks) and very light weight side silencers. The sound from the Tubi was just WAY, T O O L O U D. Don't get me wrong - it sounded unbelievable, but it made small children cry, adults dive for cover and attracted every plod within about a 5-mile radius! So far over the top for UK roads as to be (to all intents and purposes) unusable. You'd definitely need to be very, very brave. (Either that, or I'm just getting old)!

Edited by Ian_UK1 on Tuesday 20th May 14:08

[hondansx]

That's great to hear some feedback from a UK owner, as it seems not many people modify the non GT or Turbo cars.

Interesting you mention the Tubi, every other review i've read suggests it's not that loud. Was yours a full system or just cat back? I must confess, i like loud and my 997.2 is a massive disappointment compared to our 981 Boxster S.

[Ian_UK1]

hondansx said:

That's great to hear some feedback from a UK owner, as it seems not many people modify the non GT or Turbo cars.

Interesting you mention the Tubi, every other review i've read suggests it's not that loud. Was yours a full system or just cat back? I must confess, i like loud and my 997.2 is a massive disappointment compared to our 981 Boxster S.

The Tubi system for the 997S.2 is 'cat back' only - in that it retains the standard, Porsche combined manifold/catalyser units on each side of the engine. As far as I'm aware, Tubi doesn't do manifolds/catalysers for this model of Porsche.

Like you, I'd heard good reports about the Tubi sound, but I started having my doubts as soon as I picked-up one of the side silencers - they're absolutely featherweight and my immediate thought was they wouldn't do much by way of silencing anything. How right I was!! The quality of the sound is OK (but in a VERY un-Porsche-like way. It's much higher-pitched, so mightn't be to everyone's taste). It's just the sheer volume of sound that's totally overpowering, both inside and outside the car.

As I've decided to keep my '7S.2 for now (I just can't get along with the 991 at all) I'm looking to do some more work on it. I'm looking very seriously at Cargraphic's 418BHP tuning kit for the car (available through Parr in the UK) that was developed by legendary Porsche tuners RS Tuning in Germany. Maybe this might interest you too?

RS's packages usually do exactly what it says on the tin and their claims tend to be accurate. The 418 kit consists of manifolds, 200-cell cat sections, silencers (with a choice of 3 different sound levels) an RS Tuning remap and sports air filters (though I doubt the latter do very much). The headline +33 BHP sounds like it will make a difference, but the +more-than-40BHP at 4000rpm (according to Cargraphic's graphs) is the bit I think will make the bigger difference!

Another area that can be modded to great effect on 'cooking' Porsches is the suspension. I had Bilstein Damptronic coilovers installed on my previous 911 (a 997S.1) together with a full geo/cornerweight setup by Chris Franklin at Center Gravity. The difference was utterly astonishing! For the 997S.2, all I've done so far is to have the front cambers maxed-out (at just over 1 degree, still nowhere near enough) and the front toe reduced. This has already improved initial response and turn-in but there's so much more to come. Chris was recommending Cup control arms (adjustable for camber), toe lock plates and assorted other arms to reduce movement in the suspension. This sort of work makes the car feel so special and responsive that exhaust noise tends to take a back seat (if you'll excuse the pun)!

The final area you might want to engage in (assuming you aren't already a serious driving God - if you are, then my apologies) is some driver training. The 911 is unique in the way it handles and in how you extract the best from it. Learning how to master these cars (something I'm only just beginning to do and at which I'll probably never be particularly accomplished) is the key to realising just how capable and thrilling they are. There's a vast reservoir of untapped performance that most Porsche owners (disclaimer - doesn't apply to many on this forum!) have absolutely no clue is there. And it has nothing to do with going in straight lines! Try a day with Don Palmer at Bruntingthorpe and you'll wonder how you ever thought your car was dull - 'disappointing' exhaust noise or not.

Hope this is of some use.

Ian

[hondansx]

Ian_UK1 said:

The Tubi system for the 997S.2 is 'cat back' only - in that it retains the standard, Porsche combined manifold/catalyser units on each side of the engine. As far as I'm aware, Tubi doesn't do manifolds/catalysers for this model of Porsche.

Like you, I'd heard good reports about the Tubi sound, but I started having my doubts as soon as I picked-up one of the side silencers - they're absolutely featherweight and my immediate thought was they wouldn't do much by way of silencing anything. How right I was!! The quality of the sound is OK (but in a VERY un-Porsche-like way. It's much higher-pitched, so mightn't be to everyone's taste). It's just the sheer volume of sound that's totally overpowering, both inside and outside the car.

As I've decided to keep my '7S.2 for now (I just can't get along with the 991 at all) I'm looking to do some more work on it. I'm looking very seriously at Cargraphic's 418BHP tuning kit for the car (available through Parr in the UK) that was developed by legendary Porsche tuners RS Tuning in Germany. Maybe this might interest you too?

RS's packages usually do exactly what it says on the tin and their claims tend to be accurate. The 418 kit consists of manifolds, 200-cell cat sections, silencers (with a choice of 3 different sound levels) an RS Tuning remap and sports air filters (though I doubt the latter do very much). The headline +33 BHP sounds like it will make a difference, but the +more-than-40BHP at 4000rpm (according to Cargraphic's graphs) is the bit I think will make the bigger difference!

Another area that can be modded to great effect on 'cooking' Porsches is the suspension. I had Bilstein Damptronic coilovers installed on my previous 911 (a 997S.1) together with a full geo/cornerweight setup by Chris Franklin at Center Gravity. The difference was utterly astonishing! For the 997S.2, all I've done so far is to have the front cambers maxed-out (at just over 1 degree, still nowhere near enough) and the front toe reduced. This has already improved initial response and turn-in but there's so much more to come. Chris was recommending Cup control arms (adjustable for camber), toe lock plates and assorted other arms to reduce movement in the suspension. This sort of work makes the car feel so special and responsive that exhaust noise tends to take a back seat (if you'll excuse the pun)!

The final area you might want to engage in (assuming you aren't already a serious driving God - if you are, then my apologies) is some driver training. The 911 is unique in the way it handles and in how you extract the best from it. Learning how to master these cars (something I'm only just beginning to do and at which I'll probably never be particularly accomplished) is the key to realising just how capable and thrilling they are. There's a vast reservoir of untapped performance that most Porsche owners (disclaimer - doesn't apply to many on this forum!) have absolutely no clue is there. And it has nothing to do with going in straight lines! Try a day with Don Palmer at Bruntingthorpe and you'll wonder how you ever thought your car was dull - 'disappointing' exhaust noise or not.

Hope this is of some use.

Ian

Thanks again; interesting stuff indeed!

Could i ask how much you paid for the Tubi? I'm afraid i may need to investigate further in order to satisfy my inner child...

I hit the same wall as you did with regards to geometry. Upon researching i found our cars had limited adjustability and saw mentions of fitting GT3 parts, etc. I also tripped up upon CoG and they certainly look like a good option.

Currently i have fitted -20mm H&R springs which have retained OEM ride comfort and the car looks fantastic. Any lower though, and i'd be fearful of losing bits of the car as it already scrapes on speedhumps above 10mph.

I would like a 'pointer' car in general though so think i will give CoG a call in the near future. I am fortunate to have a Turbo S to compare the car too, and in comparison my C4S is not quite as 'alert.' I'm not sure what difference the two cars have, but my assumption is the Turbo S has stiffer suspension and the clever engine mounts and torque vectoring create the 'alert' feel, but the suspension arms etc. are the same. I'll find out shortly as it is getting Cup tyres fitted and a geo so let's see how that goes...

Shame you are so far away; just checked your profile and it would have been nice to do a direct comparison. Spoiled by the Turbo's torque, i could never justify chasing a small gain on the naturally aspirated car personally. As you suggest, i'd rather spend the money on being on track.

[mrcityrunner]

Hi Ian

Thanks for a great comprehesive post on the exhaust... true that not many modify a non GT etc. I have the exact same car as you being a 997.2 PDK 2010 plate.

Just wondering if you have any porsche warranty on the car and if so, did all your exhaust mods invalidate it at all?

By the way if your ever passing through Swindon... let me know

Cheers

Rax

[Ian_UK1]

mrcityrunner said:

Hi Ian

Thanks for a great comprehesive post on the exhaust... true that not many modify a non GT etc. I have the exact same car as you being a 997.2 PDK 2010 plate.

Just wondering if you have any porsche warranty on the car and if so, did all your exhaust mods invalidate it at all?

By the way if your ever passing through Swindon... let me know

Cheers

Rax

Hi Rax - I've no warranty on the car currently - didn't bother once the manufacturer's original one ran out as the extended one seems in many ways to be something of a joke - there's plenty of anecdotal evidence on here!

If a non-Porsche windscreen wiper blade invalidates the whole extended warranty (unbelievable, but claimed to be true) then yes, you can absolutely guarantee that any worthwhile modification to the car will immediately blow the warranty out of the water! Shame as the 997S.2 really needs waking-up a little in the sonics department and PSE doesn't cut it unfortunately.

[mrcityrunner]

Very true Ian - I believe they said even non-porsche wheel nuts invalidate the warranty so i just ended up spraying my originals... a bit harsh... but ill find out how long ive got on my warranty and consider getting the sharkwerks... if you do happen to acidently make a youtube video of your car look/sound... i think a lot of people would appreciate it

[mrcityrunner]

Hi Ian

I you wouldnt mind, could you kindly let me know where you purchased the sharkwerks and Gert Carnewal's exhaust from?

Thanks

R

[Callughan]

Would removing centre silencer effect MOT emissions?

[MrC986]

Callughan said:

Would removing centre silencer effect MOT emissions?

it shouldn't do...I ran a 996 3.4 with a fabspeed muffler bypass kit I.e. no rear silencers & it always passed the emissions & the MOT testers loved the noise as they put it through the test

[supermono]

I've heard BMW I think are delivering audio solutions inside the car to make the noises of a loud exhaust. The good new is you get a proper engine related noise according to revs and throttle position for just the cost of software plus I guess you can turn it up as loud as you like inside the car without attracting the attention of plod.

The real advantage of this is that the 99% of folks on the street and living in nearby houses that don't want to hear your car don't have to.

Is there anything on the market like this? Pretty much everyone I've spoken to about exhausts just don't care about the power it may or may not deliver (lol) so this might be ideal

SM

[Shep911]

supermono said:

I've heard BMW I think are delivering audio solutions inside the car to make the noises of a loud exhaust. The good new is you get a proper engine related noise according to revs and throttle position for just the cost of software plus I guess you can turn it up as loud as you like inside the car without attracting the attention of plod.

The real advantage of this is that the 99% of folks on the street and living in nearby houses that don't want to hear your car don't have to.

Is there anything on the market like this? Pretty much everyone I've spoken to about exhausts just don't care about the power it may or may not deliver (lol) so this might be ideal

SM

Fake exhaust noise pumped into the cabin is deemed acceptable.....even desirable

I've heard it all now