Advice for starting a car that's been stood 2 years?
Discussion
Right, so we've taken a gamble on an old R170 SLK for the OH. It was very cheap. The story of the car is that it belonged to an old boy and he has since passed and the car was left to his nephew who was pretty surprised!
I've been doing a bit of reading and my plan is to turn up with a socket set and a new battery and plugs. I'm also going to do the oil straight away but it will have to be driven to a suitable place nearby first. Something I read related to putting a specific type of lubricant into the cylinders via the plug holes before starting, and crank it a few times with the plugs out first.
Does this sound reasonable? And what should I buy? Needs to be something I can buy off the shelf.
I'm also aware it needs a coolant flush but won't be able to do this until the next day.
Petrol, do I need to syphon the old out or can I add some octane booster and some fresh fuel?
Any help appreciated.
I've been doing a bit of reading and my plan is to turn up with a socket set and a new battery and plugs. I'm also going to do the oil straight away but it will have to be driven to a suitable place nearby first. Something I read related to putting a specific type of lubricant into the cylinders via the plug holes before starting, and crank it a few times with the plugs out first.
Does this sound reasonable? And what should I buy? Needs to be something I can buy off the shelf.
I'm also aware it needs a coolant flush but won't be able to do this until the next day.
Petrol, do I need to syphon the old out or can I add some octane booster and some fresh fuel?
Any help appreciated.
I wouldn't say you need a specific type of lubricant.
Fit your new battery.
Check the air intake/filter for anything having made its home in there.
Take the plugs out,
pour about a spoonful of engine oil into each bore,
turn the engine over by hand if possible - use big socket on crank end bolt, or push while in gear. Be a bit gentle as the oil you just spooned into the plug holes can come shooting back out again!
crank engine enough so that the oil light goes out (the engine oil should have worked its way around the engine by then)
put the plugs back in and the leads back on
attempt to start engine.
If it doesn't run well, the fuel maybe 'gone off' - don't know how much fuel is in it, but nurse it to nearest petrol station and brim the tank - more than likely this will sort it.
In some ways, I'd be more concerned about stuff like the brakes - two years is a long time.
Fit your new battery.
Check the air intake/filter for anything having made its home in there.
Take the plugs out,
pour about a spoonful of engine oil into each bore,
turn the engine over by hand if possible - use big socket on crank end bolt, or push while in gear. Be a bit gentle as the oil you just spooned into the plug holes can come shooting back out again!
crank engine enough so that the oil light goes out (the engine oil should have worked its way around the engine by then)
put the plugs back in and the leads back on
attempt to start engine.
If it doesn't run well, the fuel maybe 'gone off' - don't know how much fuel is in it, but nurse it to nearest petrol station and brim the tank - more than likely this will sort it.
In some ways, I'd be more concerned about stuff like the brakes - two years is a long time.
Edited by EggsBenedict on Monday 19th May 16:34
You could go for broke and just crank it up, but the cautious approach would be to get the plugs out and spin it on the starter until you get a bit of oil pressure/oil light goes out(do cars this modern have oil lights? I feel like a dinosaur). Depending on the oil colour/consistency you may as well run it a bit before changing, unless it's filthy and tar-like you could get away without until it's somewhere convenient to do the full service.
As iva cosworth says, juice the battery and turn the key.
You might have alarm/immobilizer problems if the battery has been flat for a while.
Only thing I would add is that I usually take the revs straight up to about 3k, gets the oil pumping and helps it stop stalling from the manky petrol.
No point in putting oil down the cylinders IMO, either there is still an oil film, or corrosion has set in and nothing short of a strip and rebuild will suffice.
You might have alarm/immobilizer problems if the battery has been flat for a while.
Only thing I would add is that I usually take the revs straight up to about 3k, gets the oil pumping and helps it stop stalling from the manky petrol.
No point in putting oil down the cylinders IMO, either there is still an oil film, or corrosion has set in and nothing short of a strip and rebuild will suffice.
Personally I would just bring some basic tools and a new battery, the old one could be so funked that it might not jump, although probably will.
I would check the oil to ensure there is adequate there. As it is a modern engine I wouldn't bother with removing plugs, plus they might break etc.
I reckon the immobilizer/electrics would give you the most hassle, so I wouldn't want to spend 30 minutes pissing oil down the spark holes on someones drive to then be unable to start the car due to the imob not working.
Some of the doors might be stuck, handbrake could be stuck on etc
Bring a pump as I bet some of the tyres are flat
Otherwise, turn up , basc checks, jump start, bobs your uncle!!
It will either be a complete piece of piss or PITA
I would check the oil to ensure there is adequate there. As it is a modern engine I wouldn't bother with removing plugs, plus they might break etc.
I reckon the immobilizer/electrics would give you the most hassle, so I wouldn't want to spend 30 minutes pissing oil down the spark holes on someones drive to then be unable to start the car due to the imob not working.
Some of the doors might be stuck, handbrake could be stuck on etc
Bring a pump as I bet some of the tyres are flat
Otherwise, turn up , basc checks, jump start, bobs your uncle!!
It will either be a complete piece of piss or PITA
Things that are likely to have happened:
1. The fuel will have gone off
2. All the oil will have drained out of the bores
3. The battery will probably be deep discharged (nd unlikely to be recoverable without a specialist)- this can cause associate problems with electronics- ie radio codes, leccy windows, even imoobilisers. Don't forget that if the car is fully discharged then the key may not disable the immobiliser without battery charge. So you'll need to replace the battery, and give the car a few minutes to reset the ECU/BCM. Don't be surprised if you have to lock and unlock the car using the remote a few times to get it to resolve.
4. The brakes may have seized on (hopefully the handbrake was left off).
5. The clutch "may" have seized (although unlikely).
6. Flat spotting of tyres
To fix these:
1. You really need to get the old fuel out- syphoning the tank dry and then replacing with some high ron good stuff will help. BUT you will still have old fuel in the rails, which isn't ideal, but should be solved by 2. below. You may if you choose replace the spark plugs- depending on the plugs the tips do corrode and get gummed up- replacing the plugs is usually cheap and easy.If you do replace the plugs, then follow tip 2 below with the plugs out (it will help with not flooding the engine!)
2. You don't need to pour oil down the spark plugs, actually it doesn't really sound like a good idea, as you run the risk of Hydraulocking (sp?) the engine. All you need to do is pull all the spark leads and turn the engine over until the oil pressure light goes out,this could take a minute or so.
3. New Battery, plus jump leads to support the starter whilst 2. is happening. Eveything may take a little more time than usual, and I sometimes find with old landies that the starters stiffen with disuse- having jump leads connected up to a car can really help things along with the initial start by provide a lot of cold cranking amps.
4. Personally I always drive off and free the brakes off using the cars engine. What you SHOULD do is strip the brakes down, check the movement of the pistons, and renew the brake fluid (which after 2 years will probably need doing anyway)
5. If you are really brave you jack up the driven wheels, start the car and then push it off the jacks- the transmission jolt usually frees the clutch. With a landy this is no problem as you can't really damage the body work (due to the groundclearance). On more normal cars this can be more of a.... difficulty.
6. Actyually isn't a problem, but you will think you have massive imbalances/suspension problems. Give it a good drive, and get the tyres warm and you'll find it will all smooth out.
I've started cars that have been sitting for 15-20 years in a barn by using the above!
If you have no knowledge of the previous service history then personally I'd be reaplacing ALL the fluids at once, inc coolant, brake fluid, trans fluids etc.
Watch the temp gauge on the way home, if it drops suddenly then you've just split a hose (which is not uncommon with cars in sheds- mice and rats love chewing on rubber!) and you need to stop ASAP.
HTH
1. The fuel will have gone off
2. All the oil will have drained out of the bores
3. The battery will probably be deep discharged (nd unlikely to be recoverable without a specialist)- this can cause associate problems with electronics- ie radio codes, leccy windows, even imoobilisers. Don't forget that if the car is fully discharged then the key may not disable the immobiliser without battery charge. So you'll need to replace the battery, and give the car a few minutes to reset the ECU/BCM. Don't be surprised if you have to lock and unlock the car using the remote a few times to get it to resolve.
4. The brakes may have seized on (hopefully the handbrake was left off).
5. The clutch "may" have seized (although unlikely).
6. Flat spotting of tyres
To fix these:
1. You really need to get the old fuel out- syphoning the tank dry and then replacing with some high ron good stuff will help. BUT you will still have old fuel in the rails, which isn't ideal, but should be solved by 2. below. You may if you choose replace the spark plugs- depending on the plugs the tips do corrode and get gummed up- replacing the plugs is usually cheap and easy.If you do replace the plugs, then follow tip 2 below with the plugs out (it will help with not flooding the engine!)
2. You don't need to pour oil down the spark plugs, actually it doesn't really sound like a good idea, as you run the risk of Hydraulocking (sp?) the engine. All you need to do is pull all the spark leads and turn the engine over until the oil pressure light goes out,this could take a minute or so.
3. New Battery, plus jump leads to support the starter whilst 2. is happening. Eveything may take a little more time than usual, and I sometimes find with old landies that the starters stiffen with disuse- having jump leads connected up to a car can really help things along with the initial start by provide a lot of cold cranking amps.
4. Personally I always drive off and free the brakes off using the cars engine. What you SHOULD do is strip the brakes down, check the movement of the pistons, and renew the brake fluid (which after 2 years will probably need doing anyway)
5. If you are really brave you jack up the driven wheels, start the car and then push it off the jacks- the transmission jolt usually frees the clutch. With a landy this is no problem as you can't really damage the body work (due to the groundclearance). On more normal cars this can be more of a.... difficulty.
6. Actyually isn't a problem, but you will think you have massive imbalances/suspension problems. Give it a good drive, and get the tyres warm and you'll find it will all smooth out.
I've started cars that have been sitting for 15-20 years in a barn by using the above!
If you have no knowledge of the previous service history then personally I'd be reaplacing ALL the fluids at once, inc coolant, brake fluid, trans fluids etc.
Watch the temp gauge on the way home, if it drops suddenly then you've just split a hose (which is not uncommon with cars in sheds- mice and rats love chewing on rubber!) and you need to stop ASAP.
HTH
HumbleJim said:
I belive Mercs of this age can be very sensitive to electronics. So take advice from someone that knows these models, or a marque forum.
Personally I would use a new battery rather than jump it and I don't think cranking the engine with plugs disconnected is a good idea .
How come? Personally I would use a new battery rather than jump it and I don't think cranking the engine with plugs disconnected is a good idea .
Thanks everyone for the help so far. Sounds like there's a real split over putting a tiny bit of oil in from the top.
As above, just go for it!
I would be tempted to use a battery you know to be good, rather than the one on it, but in general the mechanical side of it will be fine. Use some throttle when you start it and give it a minuet to get the oil flowing everywhere before driving off. The brakes could be stuck too, although its not a massive issue to un-stick them.
I would be tempted to use a battery you know to be good, rather than the one on it, but in general the mechanical side of it will be fine. Use some throttle when you start it and give it a minuet to get the oil flowing everywhere before driving off. The brakes could be stuck too, although its not a massive issue to un-stick them.
TroubledSoul said:
How come?
Thanks everyone for the help so far. Sounds like there's a real split over putting a tiny bit of oil in from the top.
Its because the engine speed (and therefore oil pump pressure/flow) will be slower on the starter than if the engine was running. You really want the engine turning over at above idle to push a lot of oil around quickly rather than half heartly at only a few hundred RPM. Thanks everyone for the help so far. Sounds like there's a real split over putting a tiny bit of oil in from the top.
TroubledSoul said:
HumbleJim said:
I belive Mercs of this age can be very sensitive to electronics. So take advice from someone that knows these models, or a marque forum.
Personally I would use a new battery rather than jump it and I don't think cranking the engine with plugs disconnected is a good idea .
How come? Personally I would use a new battery rather than jump it and I don't think cranking the engine with plugs disconnected is a good idea .
Thanks everyone for the help so far. Sounds like there's a real split over putting a tiny bit of oil in from the top.
Try http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/ or a very good American site http://www.benzworld.org/forums/mercedes-benz-road...
HumbleJim said:
...I have an SL the workshop manual is very clear about not cranking. I'm not sure why but think it's do with damaging an ECU.
This^^. I've read similar things about plenty of other cars - such that I wouldn't crank any modern(ish) vehicle with the plugs out.It's only stood for 2 years, so if it were me, I'd be inclined to fit a new battery and fire the sucker up.
If it had been stood for 20 years, I'd get it recovered.
Flat/shot batteries cause problems on older SLK's - according to my GF who used to have one (before I was on the scene). Plays havoc with the immobiliser and ignition. She had 4 batteries in 8 years...
I'd just check everything for mice, then crank it. As said before, if already dry then it'll be seized - but 2 years isn't a long time really. My old camper stood for twice that, then started first time even on the old fuel.
Good luck and photos in readers cars please - a mini barn-find!
I'd just check everything for mice, then crank it. As said before, if already dry then it'll be seized - but 2 years isn't a long time really. My old camper stood for twice that, then started first time even on the old fuel.
Good luck and photos in readers cars please - a mini barn-find!
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