Porsche 996 Turbo Coolant Hose/Pipe Failure - Glued Parts :(

[cheekyone]

Hi Everyone,

Thought I would share my experience as this issue happened to me very recently. (I have a 2001, Porsche 996 Turbo & a newbie as only owned car for 4 months so go gentle on me please)

So 1 of the 8 metal coolant hose inserts failed (Happened to me when I was accelerating hard on a corner - witnessed a big load of smoke/steam in the wing mirror) - after a lot of scratching around on the internet I found that there are a total of 8 metal pipes/metal insert hoses that are glued together when the car was originally built & applies to all 996 & 997 turbos (Totally bonkers but true) So by just fixing the one broken pipe you still have a further 7 glued pipes that could fail, to get them fixed its def an engine out job & to do it properly/permanently all 8 need welding & a case of digging around to find a decent local alloy welder & one that can preferably conduct a pressure test which took a heck of a lot of phone calls to find.

So heres a few photos of my journey start to finish to help any others, I found it quite difficult finding out exactly which 4 parts they were that had the dodgey 8 glued metal hose inserts on that needed welding, my local porsche garage had never come across this before & hence down to me to try to find out & then pass this info onto them (Even after dropping the engine down to get to the initial 1st failed insert pipe/hose on part no 1 that had failed the other 3 parts were not all visible & still deeply buried in the top of the engine)

So here's a few photos of the job start to finish which I hope provides some help/basic info to anyone else should this occur, I hope it doesn't as it's an expensive fix etc & being older cars are prone to a few bits & bobs breaking when taking apart etc, one part alone cost me £800 to replace which broke due to corrosion when dismantling. It's also worth pointing out the labour required to do this whole job start to finish is around 30 hrs depending on how experienced your garage/mechanic is at conducting this repair.

(Personally if I was to rewind the clock I would def take the car to Ken at Nine Excellence to carry out this major repair as he has done it numerous times before even though it would mean 3 hrs on a trailer otherwise chances are you will repeat what happened to me which was like the blind leading the blind. There are also other jobs which are def worth doing whilst engine out for long term peace of mind, Many thanks for all your advice Ken)


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Edited by cheekyone on Tuesday 20th May 13:42

[mm450exc]

Get them all welded and replace all hoses.

[IMI A]

Sharkwerks do metal replacements which others on here have replaced the rubber hoses with as a preventative measure. Glued in solution by Porsche is average as they all eventually fail if the car is being used as intended. Same has happened on my car in the past in almost exactly the same situation. You may as well change the plugs too whilst the engines out.

[fioran0]

but but but..... the loctite doesn't degrade with age letting the pipe fall out on turbo and GT3 engines. you must have imagined it all.





as a bonus for 997 owners, the heat exchanger console replaced the lower two pipes with plastic bolted ones. these crack and leak coolant out over your engine too.

Edited by fioran0 on Tuesday 20th May 12:37

[cheekyone]

Sorry could not download all my start to finish images in my 1St post - I assume file size was to big - Here's some more photos - Just to clarify all 8 of my metal insert hoses on the 4 separate parts are now welded as shown in pics

Great to see the 5 of yours welded in your photo's "Fiorano" I assume you have welded the other 3 hose inserts : )

Good point "IMA A" as you rightly pointed out Porsche themselves will replace any of the failed metal insert hoses with a complete new part & you guessed it the new part will be glued together & in my case this new part which is the largest & most shiny part cost me £800 as the lip on scavenger pump housing broke when taking apart due to corrosion, so of to the welder went this brand new glued part which I just paid £800 for

[url]

|http://thumbsnap.com/6zvowy0b[/url][url]



The above photos shows all 4 separate parts with all 8 inserts welded in (6 Straight & 2 Elbows)



The above photo is close up of one of the welds

Edited by cheekyone on Tuesday 20th May 13:50

[Johnny G Pipe]

Lots on this in US forums, with tracked cars mainly it seems, but seems less common over here? Thanks for posting your experience in Blighty. If it is age related might be happening to more people in future -and def worth doing a preventative fix if the engine is out I reckon - along with an anti pop out detent..

[996TT02]

Great info, hope to do this one day, preventatively however! Fingers crossed...

Did you have the new aluminium pipe stubs made up or did you buy them pre manufactured?

[TTX50]

Interestingly, Sharkwerks advise against welding and advocate 'pinning' instead. Most people in the US seem to go for that option. Link is here

http://sharkwerks.com/porsche/technical-articles/3...

[maximtaylor]

I had my pipes welded by JZM last year as a precaution. Sure, the failure is rarer this side of the pond, but as you have discovered it can happen.

[Nineexcellence]

TTX50 said:

Interestingly, Sharkwerks advise against welding and advocate 'pinning' instead. Most people in the US seem to go for that option. Link is here

http://sharkwerks.com/porsche/technical-articles/3...

I advise the complete opposite, and a lot of the reason why pinning is done in the USA is because it is a cheaper fix as most just pin the main pipe behind the alternator with replacement bonding and pin, which is typically the one that goes and you cannot weld in place.

The lock in pin will only prevent the ejection, not the leak. If the bonding goes again, you are back to the same position. The pin might prevent dumping of coolant in less than 5 seconds, but the system is pressurised and it will leak.

I hear what he says about welding, but again, some companies have been selling replacement inserts for the 996 turbo as if they are required - they are not - the material is the same and can be welded without issue. Never had an issue with any of these welds on the coolant pipes.

I suppose you could welded and pin, but then the bonding around the pin may leak.

Ken

[cheekyone]

996TT02:- I did look into this & found the aluminium inserts/pipe stubs for sale in few different places although all of them were in America, however they only seem to sell the 6 straights ones & noone makes the 2 elbows, so you still have to reuse the 2 elbows, my 6 straight inserts & the 2 elbows all came apart without any issues/damage.

TTX50:- Interesting read on the sharkworks link - I have to say I didnt ever come across the last page with the detail about welding remedy & alleged issues & I did spend a lot of time internet surfing researching etc (It took quite a while just finding out which were the 4 problem parts that needed fixing) - Also I could not find a single garage or internet thread of anyone whom had done the pin it option in UK & didnt fancy being he 1St. Ken at nine excellence from what I understand has gone down the weld it route & done a lot of them without any issues which is what swayed it for me. He also has all the kit to pressure test & double check for any pin holes in the weld before refitting it all etc. One thing that concerns me with the pin it solution is that the screw is held in with glue/locktite & it's glue perishing that caused this whole problem in the 1st place.

If it all goes tits up I'll report back or perhaps I could be the 1St person to do both weld & then pin it, will get the black & decker drill out tomorrow lol

[TTX50]

Ken. I'd trust your judgement 100% on 996 turbo issues. Just thought I'd post it as an interesting alternative opinion. Next time my engine has to come out, I'll be getting you to weld the pipes!

[steve220873]

I feel your pain it happened to my 996tt in 2009 at brands hatch sadly I had the engine out and just the part replaced wish I knew what I know now I would of had them welded at 9e, I've had the car 8 years now so just hoping it holds out, no more trips to brands hatch!

[996TT02]

Many stories of failure relate to track use.

Could the engine temps really rise that much more than normal road trashing that that is when the glue is likely to let go?

[Rockster]

996TT02 said:

Many stories of failure relate to track use.

Could the engine temps really rise that much more than normal road trashing that that is when the glue is likely to let go?

Talked to some techs about this very issue the other day. They both confirmed the only ones they've seen fail are in tracked cars.

My WAG is the failure is *not* related to engine temperature but vibration and stress from the g-forces the engine and hoses are subjected to in track conditions. Who knows at high/sustained engine speeds what vibration harmonics appear at the hoses. The hoses are heavy walled and loaded with coolant which means they are heavy and high g-forces can add to this tugging. Plus it is possible the engine moving about under high g-forces can have the hoses tugging at the fittings/pipes and this can accelerate the epoxy degradation.

[ZeroH]

cheekyone said:

Sorry could not download all my start to finish images in my 1St post - I assume file size was to big - Here's some more photos - Just to clarify all 8 of my metal insert hoses on the 4 separate parts are now welded as shown in pics

Great to see the 5 of yours welded in your photo's "Fiorano" I assume you have welded the other 3 hose inserts : )

Good point "IMA A" as you rightly pointed out Porsche themselves will replace any of the failed metal insert hoses with a complete new part & you guessed it the new part will be glued together & in my case this new part which is the largest & most shiny part cost me 800 as the lip on scavenger pump housing broke when taking apart due to corrosion, so of to the welder went this brand new glued part which I just paid 800 for

[url]

|http://thumbsnap.com/6zvowy0b[/url][url]



The above photos shows all 4 separate parts with all 8 inserts welded in (6 Straight & 2 Elbows)



The above photo is close up of one of the welds

Edited by cheekyone on Tuesday 20th May 13:50

Fine looking black 996 turbo in that top pic if I say so myself lol !!!

Preventative welding is one of the best things you can do on any 996/997gt or turbo model, whether tracked or not.... from what I've read it seems rather random.... many cars that have never been tracked have had this failure and its occurred and very low and very high miles.... just rather random it seems.

Full engine out job to do it properly which makes it an expensive preventative maintenance item... I did mine when engine was out to sort a small oil leak.

[GreigM]

Rockster said:

Talked to some techs about this very issue the other day. They both confirmed the only ones they've seen fail are in tracked cars.

Happened to my 996 turbo - never tracked, 50k fairly normal/average miles, never really pushed hard. It was at approx 10yrs old. I know of one other non-tracked turbo and 2 GT3s which were very low miles and rarely tracked (and never hard) which it has happened to. I also know the hardest tracked GT3 in the UK which hasn't shown any sign of the problem, so I don't believe it is anything to do with being on track.

I believe it is simply time working on the original glue. I had it re-glued as I reckoned 10yrs wasn't a bad lifespan for a fix (assuming re-glueing would last as long as the original). Fix cost was a fraction of what other solutions are, with the price difference I was happy to re-glue every 10 years.

[Harris_I]

Time and heat: mine let go a couple of times in the Dubai heat. Once on track, once on the road. Has since been welded.

[anonymous-user]

Just noticed a small (about an inch diameter) pool of coolant on my garage floor from a coolant pipe where its glued into its housing on the front right hand side just behind the front foglight on my 2009 997.1 turbo 29k miles. Checked the coolant level which when cold is on the minimum mark. Checked around and under the engine which is bone dry. Now its cold it is not leaking anymore...maybe a new glue job...does anybody have any thoughts.
Must say this has happened after a bit of a prolonged brisk road drive.

[Rockster]

Porkerjag said:

Just noticed a small (about an inch diameter) pool of coolant on my garage floor from a coolant pipe where its glued into its housing on the front right hand side just behind the front foglight on my 2009 997.1 turbo 29k miles. Checked the coolant level which when cold is on the minimum mark. Checked around and under the engine which is bone dry. Now its cold it is not leaking anymore...maybe a new glue job...does anybody have any thoughts.
Must say this has happened after a bit of a prolonged brisk road drive.

If I read your post correctly, it reads like the leak is towards the front of the car?

If so, my suspicion first leans towards a leaking radiator not a glued coolant pipe coming loose.

BTW, the leak probably became more evident because the car was parked while still quite warm. This raises the coolant temperature and pressure and leaks are more likely to happen under these conditions.

You need to get the car in the air and have it thoroughly checked for where the leak is coming from.

Be sure you check the water pump for any leak sign. While the coolant pipes get all the bad press the water pump is most often the source of a coolant leak.