Window woes

[P9AJP]

Pretty certain this is an easy fix, but a nudge in the right direction would be appreciated.

The problems started a few days ago with drivers window stuck at the door open position, I couldn't get it to rise any higher from the controls, also issues with the inside door open button, I had to use the emergency pull. A good slam of the door seemed to fix it.

Now today, the opposite is happening, window isn't dropping when opening the door, window works fine from inside the car.

I know there's a microswitch somewhere that senses the door is open or closed, but there's also the window position sensor in the door card.

Any idea of an easy way to determine which might be at fault?

[Jhonno]

Does your interior light still come on when you open the door..? If so, the reed switch (door open/closed sensor) is ok.

[P9AJP]

Jhonno said:

Does your interior light still come on when you open the door..? If so, the reed switch (door open/closed sensor) is ok.

The interior light is permanently on with the switch in two of the three positions, and permanently off in the other position.

I'd originally thought the reed switch when the window wouldn't rise properly, thinking the ECU thought the door was always open, so didn't rise the window, but now the window doesn't drop - could it cause these symptoms too?

[Jhonno]

If the ecu sees the door as being open it stops it going up.

Your interior light should switch off when you shut the door with the switch in the middle (flat) position. It does have a delay to it.

[P9AJP]

Jhonno said:

If the ecu sees the door as being open it stops it going up.

Your interior light should switch off when you shut the door with the switch in the middle (flat) position. It does have a delay to it.

Where is the door switch, easy fix/replacement?

[gruffalo]

the switch is at the very bottom of the door.

[TimJM]

P9AJP said:

Where is the door switch, easy fix/replacement?

That is the reed switch in the bottom of the door. If the ecu thinks the door is open that is why it won't raise the window but (and I will have to check this) I didn't think the ecu was clever enough to stop the door button from firing the solenoid if the door is open or not. It just doesn't care. SO that is the bit that is odd. I think the only thing that stops the interior door open switches form working is the speed sensor signal. It won't (or shouldn't) allow you to open the door if you are travelling.

[TimJM]

Forgot to add - I saw your message earlier but was driving all day and in meetings (I have only just got home). If you buy a reed switch and a window position switch (just in case) and get them delivered before the weekend then drive over here on Saturday and I will fix you door/window problems for you.

[sonnylad]

Also worth checking the magnet has not fallen off the main body

[Jhonno]

TimJM said:

P9AJP said:

Where is the door switch, easy fix/replacement?

That is the reed switch in the bottom of the door. If the ecu thinks the door is open that is why it won't raise the window but (and I will have to check this) I didn't think the ecu was clever enough to stop the door button from firing the solenoid if the door is open or not. It just doesn't care. SO that is the bit that is odd. I think the only thing that stops the interior door open switches form working is the speed sensor signal. It won't (or shouldn't) allow you to open the door if you are travelling.

It's not clever enough..

[TimJM]

Jhonno said:

It's not clever enough..

- yes, it is TVR electronics we are talking about here.

So as far as I am aware the only three reasons why the interior door open button would not work when pressed (assuming it works if the outside button is pressed) are as follows:

1. The button is broken, has a bad connection or a break in the wire somewhere.
2. The speed sensor signal to the door/window box is broken and the ecu thinks you are moving when you are not.
3. The box is buggered.

It shouldn't be 3 for you at Paul Smith tested your box and said it was fine so it will be 1 or 2. The fact it happens when other door/window operations also fail and slamming the door seems to fix it would make me think it is down to a bad connection or broken wires.

[P9AJP]

TimJM said:

Jhonno said:

It's not clever enough..

- yes, it is TVR electronics we are talking about here.

So as far as I am aware the only three reasons why the interior door open button would not work when pressed (assuming it works if the outside button is pressed) are as follows:

1. The button is broken, has a bad connection or a break in the wire somewhere.
2. The speed sensor signal to the door/window box is broken and the ecu thinks you are moving when you are not.
3. The box is buggered.

It shouldn't be 3 for you at Paul Smith tested your box and said it was fine so it will be 1 or 2. The fact it happens when other door/window operations also fail and slamming the door seems to fix it would make me think it is down to a bad connection or broken wires.

To be fair, it only happened the once - interior buttons have been working fine since, so I'm letting that problem go for now. Sounds like I'm going to be taking off the drivers door card to take a look at the reed and window position switches, I'll check for any signs of dodgy connectors at the same time.

[TimJM]

P9AJP said:

To be fair, it only happened the once - interior buttons have been working fine since, so I'm letting that problem go for now. Sounds like I'm going to be taking off the drivers door card to take a look at the reed and window position switches, I'll check for any signs of dodgy connectors at the same time.

Check you haven't lost your magnet first.

Before you take the door cards off and when the window has stopped short open the door and place a magnet over the reed switch, if the window raises the last inch then your reed switch is fine. Do this first and report back, depending on what happens will determine what you need to do next to correctly identify and solve the issue.

[P9AJP]

TimJM said:

Check you haven't lost your magnet first.

Before you take the door cards off and when the window has stopped short open the door and place a magnet over the reed switch, if the window raises the last inch then your reed switch is fine. Do this first and report back, depending on what happens will determine what you need to do next to correctly identify and solve the issue.

Just checked and everything worked as it should - window dropped when opening, and lifted again when closing the door. That pretty much rules out the magnet (it's either there or not), and agree that it's unlikely to be the control box as thats recently been tested. I suspect I've got either a dodgy intermittent reed switch, window position switch, or bad connections in the door, or more than likely all of the above. Makes sense to change all three whilst I've got the door card off.

Found the following RS reed switch listed in the alternative parts (there must be an easier way to search that alternative part list!) - http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reed-switches/455374...

Does anyone know of an RS equivalent part number for the window microswitch?

[TimJM]

P9AJP said:

Just checked and everything worked as it should - window dropped when opening, and lifted again when closing the door. That pretty much rules out the magnet (it's either there or not), and agree that it's unlikely to be the control box as thats recently been tested. I suspect I've got either a dodgy intermittent reed switch, window position switch, or bad connections in the door, or more than likely all of the above. Makes sense to change all three whilst I've got the door card off.

Found the following RS reed switch listed in the alternative parts (there must be an easier way to search that alternative part list!) - http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/reed-switches/455374...

Does anyone know of an RS equivalent part number for the window microswitch?

If your reed switch is being intermittent perhaps it just isn't adjusted correctly. The reed switch has a nut either side of the door holding the reed switch in place. You can adjust the length sticking out (and thereby the proximity to the magnet) by allowing more of the threaded length out the door.

Put a small blob of bluetack or playdough on your sill magnet and shut the door. You should then be able to determine how close the reed switch is to the sill magnet and if any adjustment is required.

[P9AJP]

TimJM said:

If your reed switch is being intermittent perhaps it just isn't adjusted correctly. The reed switch has a nut either side of the door holding the reed switch in place. You can adjust the length sticking out (and thereby the proximity to the magnet) by allowing more of the threaded length out the door.

Put a small blob of bluetack or playdough on your sill magnet and shut the door. You should then be able to determine how close the reed switch is to the sill magnet and if any adjustment is required.

It’s seemingly random - I’ll walk through what I just did.

Unlocked and opened the car, the window dropped normally.
Applied a magnet to the reed switch, nothing happened
Closed the door, still nothing, the window didn’t rise
Raised the window from inside the car
Popped the door, window didn’t drop but door opened fine (and instantly)

I’m 90% sure it’s the window position microswitch. If that has broken or is intermittent, it’ll think the window is perm down, that’ll give all the above symptoms. The door reed switch won’t do anything because it thinks the window is already down, therefore doesn’t raise or lower it on open/close.

Am I completely wrong?

[TimJM]

I thought the window position switch only acted as a limit controller. The microswitch does limit the upward travel but only if the controller thinks the door is open. If the door is shut the switch shouldn't stop the window from rising.

Are the interior lights switching on/off when the doors are open/closed?

[TimJM]

Thought I might add, so far the suggestions have been simple tests to try and easily narrow down what is and isn't working. The best course of action before taking door cards off in my experience is to get out the multi-meter and then you can determine which components are not working from the boot without having to take anything apart.

[Tanguero]

Arm yourself with a bag of decent waterproof connectors and replace all the grotty corroded one you can find while you have your door panel off. That will most likely sort out the problem!

The reed switches are highly reliable and unlikely to go intermittent, apart from where the wires enter the rear of the switch which is prone to mechanical wear and corrosion. The window microswitches live in a hostile environment and tend to need replacing now and then, however I have always found its the wiring loom connectors in the door that are the main problem.

Replacing them with good quality AMP ones permanently cured all my door/window ills.

[LincsCerb]

I've just replaced my reed switch which became slow to react.
I could open the Door get in close it and the interior lights would stay on and the window wouldn't go up, open it again give it 30 seconds and it would work when shut.
Tested the reed switch with a magnet, it was slow to react.
Ordered a new one off ebay and all good again.