Focus S Squeaky Brakes
Discussion
Hi guys, first post around here and my first Ford so forgive my noobness! 
A couple of weeks back I got myself a 2009 Focus S with 40k miles, I noticed straight away the brakes were squeaking slightly when coming to a stop (seems to start when I hit 30/20 mph).
The brakes seem to be working fine and the car drives great, so I left it for a week just to see if it would clear up but it didn't, if anything I'm noticing it more. I dropped it off at the Ford Service garage yesterday and they looked at the car free of charge, apparently the brakes are nearly new and all they did was 'clean' and adjust them.
However, on my way to work this morning I noticed the squeaking seems to be worse. It starts as I apply moderate pressure to come to a stop and will squeak until I'm completely still. I notice it usually start around 30/20mph as before. 8 out of 10 times I stop, I'll hear the squeaking.
Is this normal if the brake pads are actually fairly new? Will it take a while for the squeaking to stop? I'll probably call them again today just to let them know so it's on record, but thought I'd ask for some advice here.
Like I said, I'm a complete noob but hoping to stick around and learn a bit!
A couple of weeks back I got myself a 2009 Focus S with 40k miles, I noticed straight away the brakes were squeaking slightly when coming to a stop (seems to start when I hit 30/20 mph).
The brakes seem to be working fine and the car drives great, so I left it for a week just to see if it would clear up but it didn't, if anything I'm noticing it more. I dropped it off at the Ford Service garage yesterday and they looked at the car free of charge, apparently the brakes are nearly new and all they did was 'clean' and adjust them.
However, on my way to work this morning I noticed the squeaking seems to be worse. It starts as I apply moderate pressure to come to a stop and will squeak until I'm completely still. I notice it usually start around 30/20mph as before. 8 out of 10 times I stop, I'll hear the squeaking.
Is this normal if the brake pads are actually fairly new? Will it take a while for the squeaking to stop? I'll probably call them again today just to let them know so it's on record, but thought I'd ask for some advice here.
Like I said, I'm a complete noob but hoping to stick around and learn a bit!
Give the brakes a good beating and it will probably disappear for a while, possibly permanently if it's a transfer layer issue with the new pads.
Copper grease is unlikely to work, definitely if the pads are sticky backed and it almost certainly will be temporary anyway. You're more likely to have success greasing the disc mounting faces.
If the model doesn't have a squeal issue normally (and if it's bad then it would have a reputation) then the pads may have been replaced with non-OEM which are either a different pad material or backing material spec and are causing an issue.
Worth checking that the pistons and caliper sliders aren't seized as if there's excessive drag it might be causing abnormal conditions.
Also worth paying attention to the rear brakes as depending on frequency it can be difficult to ascertain which end it's coming from.
If all fails then you've just been unlucky with your car and that particular set of discs, a new set will cure it.
Copper grease is unlikely to work, definitely if the pads are sticky backed and it almost certainly will be temporary anyway. You're more likely to have success greasing the disc mounting faces.
If the model doesn't have a squeal issue normally (and if it's bad then it would have a reputation) then the pads may have been replaced with non-OEM which are either a different pad material or backing material spec and are causing an issue.
Worth checking that the pistons and caliper sliders aren't seized as if there's excessive drag it might be causing abnormal conditions.
Also worth paying attention to the rear brakes as depending on frequency it can be difficult to ascertain which end it's coming from.
If all fails then you've just been unlucky with your car and that particular set of discs, a new set will cure it.
The Wookie said:
Give the brakes a good beating and it will probably disappear for a while, possibly permanently if it's a transfer layer issue with the new pads.
Copper grease is unlikely to work, definitely if the pads are sticky backed and it almost certainly will be temporary anyway. You're more likely to have success greasing the disc mounting faces.
If the model doesn't have a squeal issue normally (and if it's bad then it would have a reputation) then the pads may have been replaced with non-OEM which are either a different pad material or backing material spec and are causing an issue.
Worth checking that the pistons and caliper sliders aren't seized as if there's excessive drag it might be causing abnormal conditions.
Also worth paying attention to the rear brakes as depending on frequency it can be difficult to ascertain which end it's coming from.
If all fails then you've just been unlucky with your car and that particular set of discs, a new set will cure it.
Thanks for the advice matey. I spoke to the garage again and they're going to take another look on Friday. I haven't had the car long enough for them to be charging me for the work yet and they've assured me they'll sort it this time. Am I right in thinking they could change the pads, but the problem actually be with the discs? Copper grease is unlikely to work, definitely if the pads are sticky backed and it almost certainly will be temporary anyway. You're more likely to have success greasing the disc mounting faces.
If the model doesn't have a squeal issue normally (and if it's bad then it would have a reputation) then the pads may have been replaced with non-OEM which are either a different pad material or backing material spec and are causing an issue.
Worth checking that the pistons and caliper sliders aren't seized as if there's excessive drag it might be causing abnormal conditions.
Also worth paying attention to the rear brakes as depending on frequency it can be difficult to ascertain which end it's coming from.
If all fails then you've just been unlucky with your car and that particular set of discs, a new set will cure it.
I have noticed that the longer I'm driving and the harder I'm braking, the less I can hear the squeak - so I'll give them a good beating and see if that helps wear them in!
No worries 
The problem could be with the discs, it could just be a fluke of manufacturing/usage that, having worn, your particular set is prone to it. Unfortunately the only way to know would be to go and ask the previous owner if the brakes squealed on the last set of pads but even then it's not a guarantee! It could even be a fluke of driving style; the minutiae of pedal application and usage can determine whether it appears or not. Even air humidity can affect it!
It's typically triggered by high frequency stick/slip in the contact between pad and disc that coincides with a resonant behaviour in the system, usually the disc if it's particularly loud and offensive. It can happen if the brakes have a nice built up transfer layer and then the vehicle is driven gently at low speed to polish up the surface of the discs and pads, leaving them nice and shiny with a low friction coefficient. Or not if you're driving in circles around Tamworth incessantly trying to get the damn thing to do it...
Squeal is a slippery and evasive beast, taunting you with the taste of success with silence for days on end, waiting to humiliate you in a barrage of barking dogs, glaring pensioners and crying infants when you least expect it... usually about half an hour before a meeting with your boss to tell him it's fixed.
Generally speaking if a vehicle design has a natural propensity to squeal for whatever reason then the only way to really get rid of it is to make drastic changes like pad friction material, pad backing layer to alter damping properties, adding mass dampers or modifying active parts. The manufacturer would have already likely done any/all of these once they'd discovered an issue, so like I say on a modern volume car it's either a fluke or something is out of spec.
Getting the brakes warmer will change the friction coefficient of the system and it will move away from the resonant mode of whatever is moving the air, although it will obviously come back when the system has cooled.
Giving the brakes a proper beating will bed the pads properly and lay down a new transfer layer which might change the friction properties permanently. Alternatively if the pad material is non-OEM and is incompatible then it will always return eventually.
The problem could be with the discs, it could just be a fluke of manufacturing/usage that, having worn, your particular set is prone to it. Unfortunately the only way to know would be to go and ask the previous owner if the brakes squealed on the last set of pads but even then it's not a guarantee! It could even be a fluke of driving style; the minutiae of pedal application and usage can determine whether it appears or not. Even air humidity can affect it!
It's typically triggered by high frequency stick/slip in the contact between pad and disc that coincides with a resonant behaviour in the system, usually the disc if it's particularly loud and offensive. It can happen if the brakes have a nice built up transfer layer and then the vehicle is driven gently at low speed to polish up the surface of the discs and pads, leaving them nice and shiny with a low friction coefficient. Or not if you're driving in circles around Tamworth incessantly trying to get the damn thing to do it...
Squeal is a slippery and evasive beast, taunting you with the taste of success with silence for days on end, waiting to humiliate you in a barrage of barking dogs, glaring pensioners and crying infants when you least expect it... usually about half an hour before a meeting with your boss to tell him it's fixed.
Generally speaking if a vehicle design has a natural propensity to squeal for whatever reason then the only way to really get rid of it is to make drastic changes like pad friction material, pad backing layer to alter damping properties, adding mass dampers or modifying active parts. The manufacturer would have already likely done any/all of these once they'd discovered an issue, so like I say on a modern volume car it's either a fluke or something is out of spec.
Getting the brakes warmer will change the friction coefficient of the system and it will move away from the resonant mode of whatever is moving the air, although it will obviously come back when the system has cooled.
Giving the brakes a proper beating will bed the pads properly and lay down a new transfer layer which might change the friction properties permanently. Alternatively if the pad material is non-OEM and is incompatible then it will always return eventually.
The Wookie said:
No worries
The problem could be with the discs, it could just be a fluke of manufacturing/usage that, having worn, your particular set is prone to it. Unfortunately the only way to know would be to go and ask the previous owner if the brakes squealed on the last set of pads but even then it's not a guarantee! It could even be a fluke of driving style; the minutiae of pedal application and usage can determine whether it appears or not. Even air humidity can affect it!
It's typically triggered by high frequency stick/slip in the contact between pad and disc that coincides with a resonant behaviour in the system, usually the disc if it's particularly loud and offensive. It can happen if the brakes have a nice built up transfer layer and then the vehicle is driven gently at low speed to polish up the surface of the discs and pads, leaving them nice and shiny with a low friction coefficient. Or not if you're driving in circles around Tamworth incessantly trying to get the damn thing to do it...
Squeal is a slippery and evasive beast, taunting you with the taste of success with silence for days on end, waiting to humiliate you in a barrage of barking dogs, glaring pensioners and crying infants when you least expect it... usually about half an hour before a meeting with your boss to tell him it's fixed.
Generally speaking if a vehicle design has a natural propensity to squeal for whatever reason then the only way to really get rid of it is to make drastic changes like pad friction material, pad backing layer to alter damping properties, adding mass dampers or modifying active parts. The manufacturer would have already likely done any/all of these once they'd discovered an issue, so like I say on a modern volume car it's either a fluke or something is out of spec.
Getting the brakes warmer will change the friction coefficient of the system and it will move away from the resonant mode of whatever is moving the air, although it will obviously come back when the system has cooled.
Giving the brakes a proper beating will bed the pads properly and lay down a new transfer layer which might change the friction properties permanently. Alternatively if the pad material is non-OEM and is incompatible then it will always return eventually.
Very helpful stuff, it's much appreciated! It sounds like you have a lot of experience with 'squeal' The problem could be with the discs, it could just be a fluke of manufacturing/usage that, having worn, your particular set is prone to it. Unfortunately the only way to know would be to go and ask the previous owner if the brakes squealed on the last set of pads but even then it's not a guarantee! It could even be a fluke of driving style; the minutiae of pedal application and usage can determine whether it appears or not. Even air humidity can affect it!
It's typically triggered by high frequency stick/slip in the contact between pad and disc that coincides with a resonant behaviour in the system, usually the disc if it's particularly loud and offensive. It can happen if the brakes have a nice built up transfer layer and then the vehicle is driven gently at low speed to polish up the surface of the discs and pads, leaving them nice and shiny with a low friction coefficient. Or not if you're driving in circles around Tamworth incessantly trying to get the damn thing to do it...
Squeal is a slippery and evasive beast, taunting you with the taste of success with silence for days on end, waiting to humiliate you in a barrage of barking dogs, glaring pensioners and crying infants when you least expect it... usually about half an hour before a meeting with your boss to tell him it's fixed.
Generally speaking if a vehicle design has a natural propensity to squeal for whatever reason then the only way to really get rid of it is to make drastic changes like pad friction material, pad backing layer to alter damping properties, adding mass dampers or modifying active parts. The manufacturer would have already likely done any/all of these once they'd discovered an issue, so like I say on a modern volume car it's either a fluke or something is out of spec.
Getting the brakes warmer will change the friction coefficient of the system and it will move away from the resonant mode of whatever is moving the air, although it will obviously come back when the system has cooled.
Giving the brakes a proper beating will bed the pads properly and lay down a new transfer layer which might change the friction properties permanently. Alternatively if the pad material is non-OEM and is incompatible then it will always return eventually.
Like I said, it's back in the garage on Friday so hopefully they will identify the problem and fix it this time. If not, I'll moan until they change the pads and the discs.
I'd do it myself but I'd have no idea where to start - I don't fancy disassembling and reassembling brakes as my first attempt at tinkering with my car!
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