Liferafts on a sailing yacht
Discussion
After the recent tragic events, I've decided to bring forward my plans to install a liferaft.
I was planning on leaving it until she's back in the UK, where I have access to tools, fabrication equipment, and everything I would need to do a really good installation. However, another season in the Med beckons and I'm just not prepared to leave anything to chance. Although we're seldom more than 50 miles from land, I can't risk it when loved ones are involved.
After a bit of digging, it seems there are two or three possible solutions to mount/store a raft.
1) Coachroof. Pros, it's easy to install webbing straps and a hydrostatic release unit, and will almost definitely float free in the case of a catastrophic event. Cons, it's more difficult to get to in heavy weather, it limits visibility a little, it's more likely to break free if hit by a big breaking wave, and it's more likely to be stolen when left unattended.
2) Valise in a cockpit locker. Pros, it's very easy to get to. Cons, it's not so easy to launch in heavy weather, and it won't break free of it's own accord.
3) Transom. Pros, possible for hydrostatic and should float free on its own, very easy to launch by breaking the strap/release and pushing. Cons, easy to steal, possible to be washed overboard.
I'm erring towards 3) from a single-handed sailing point of view. Even on your own, it would be possible to launch the raft from the helm.
Having never had a liferaft before, I'm after some practical advice on where is good to install, and if I'm barking up the wrong tree. All and any advice welcome.
The plan is to buy everything I need in the UK, load up the car with tools/kit and drive down to the south of France. I'll do the install before launching this year.
The stern of my boat looks like this. I can't realistically mount it to the pushpit because of all the curves (I could fabricate a bracket for this, but only with the tig welder and boat in the same place - not possible), so I'm thinking of a vertical bracket on the SB side.
I was planning on leaving it until she's back in the UK, where I have access to tools, fabrication equipment, and everything I would need to do a really good installation. However, another season in the Med beckons and I'm just not prepared to leave anything to chance. Although we're seldom more than 50 miles from land, I can't risk it when loved ones are involved.
After a bit of digging, it seems there are two or three possible solutions to mount/store a raft.
1) Coachroof. Pros, it's easy to install webbing straps and a hydrostatic release unit, and will almost definitely float free in the case of a catastrophic event. Cons, it's more difficult to get to in heavy weather, it limits visibility a little, it's more likely to break free if hit by a big breaking wave, and it's more likely to be stolen when left unattended.
2) Valise in a cockpit locker. Pros, it's very easy to get to. Cons, it's not so easy to launch in heavy weather, and it won't break free of it's own accord.
3) Transom. Pros, possible for hydrostatic and should float free on its own, very easy to launch by breaking the strap/release and pushing. Cons, easy to steal, possible to be washed overboard.
I'm erring towards 3) from a single-handed sailing point of view. Even on your own, it would be possible to launch the raft from the helm.
Having never had a liferaft before, I'm after some practical advice on where is good to install, and if I'm barking up the wrong tree. All and any advice welcome.
The plan is to buy everything I need in the UK, load up the car with tools/kit and drive down to the south of France. I'll do the install before launching this year.
The stern of my boat looks like this. I can't realistically mount it to the pushpit because of all the curves (I could fabricate a bracket for this, but only with the tig welder and boat in the same place - not possible), so I'm thinking of a vertical bracket on the SB side.
If it were me I'd be tempted to go Heath Robinson this season and go for option one, then do it properly over the winter when you have access to the right tools
Reading your posts you're a more experienced sailor than I am, so please don't think I'm being condescending by asking if you have any experience with liferafts? There's a bit more involved than pulling the release and jumping in...
My experience is on much larger commercial yachts though...
Reading your posts you're a more experienced sailor than I am, so please don't think I'm being condescending by asking if you have any experience with liferafts? There's a bit more involved than pulling the release and jumping in...
My experience is on much larger commercial yachts though...
I was thinking of something similar, maybe get a canister but keep it in the locker this season and mount properly this winter.
I could get the raft ASAP and fabricate a bracket that I'm pretty sure will fit (and adjust later), but not ideal for obvious reasons. Unless anybody has an Elan 384 in the UK they could let me measure up against.
Experience, none whatsoever. A few thousand sea miles, but I have never even seen a Liferaft up close.
Having said that, I need to do the course, don't I? I'm always banging on at other people not to put to sea without proper training, I would be a massive hypocrite to buy a Liferaft and not know how to use it.
I could get the raft ASAP and fabricate a bracket that I'm pretty sure will fit (and adjust later), but not ideal for obvious reasons. Unless anybody has an Elan 384 in the UK they could let me measure up against.
Experience, none whatsoever. A few thousand sea miles, but I have never even seen a Liferaft up close.
Having said that, I need to do the course, don't I? I'm always banging on at other people not to put to sea without proper training, I would be a massive hypocrite to buy a Liferaft and not know how to use it.
[please excuse the following if you are trained/experienced]
Seriously, having been through the "offshore survival gig" I can assure you that getting into a liferaft, even under "benign" training conditions is no easy matter.
Ever wonder why you read about finding bodies close to empty liferafts??
You are absolutely right to take every means possible to mitigate in case of disaster, I would include liferaft righting and entry training on that list as well.
Seriously, having been through the "offshore survival gig" I can assure you that getting into a liferaft, even under "benign" training conditions is no easy matter.
Ever wonder why you read about finding bodies close to empty liferafts??
You are absolutely right to take every means possible to mitigate in case of disaster, I would include liferaft righting and entry training on that list as well.
Mojocvh said:
Seriously, having been through the "offshore survival gig" I can assure you that getting into a liferaft, even under "benign" training conditions is no easy matter.
Ever wonder why you read about finding bodies close to empty liferafts??
Seems to me there is a vacancy for a better mousetrap here.Ever wonder why you read about finding bodies close to empty liferafts??
How about should be something like a giant inflatable cocoon - you put it on like a big baggy boilersuit, then fall overboard and pull the toggle - pffttt - and it inflates into a sort of liferaft thing with you already in it. No need to try to climb into something in 20' waves, fail and drown.
maser_spyder said:
Experience, none whatsoever. A few thousand sea miles, but I have never even seen a Liferaft up close.
Having said that, I need to do the course, don't I? I'm always banging on at other people not to put to sea without proper training, I would be a massive hypocrite to buy a Liferaft and not know how to use it.
To work commercially I did the "Sea Survival" section of the STCW95 training program, it was basic stuff but useful nonetheless and it covered much more than just liferaftsHaving said that, I need to do the course, don't I? I'm always banging on at other people not to put to sea without proper training, I would be a massive hypocrite to buy a Liferaft and not know how to use it.
In several years and lots of miles we never had to properly abandon ship but we did plenty of drills, tbh I've probably forgotten most of it now but there are certain things you have to know about rafts. These were 4x proper cradle mounted 60 man rafts though (on a boat that could legally carry less than 30 people including crew)
Not sure what training courses there are, a quick google doesn't turn up much beyond STCW and training videos - an STCW course would give a good basic grounding in not just the raft but also what to do before and after getting in it which is key, as above poster mentioned, sea survival in even gentle conditions is a task, the recent events in the Atlantic show that even the most experienced may find themselves out of their depth in challenging seas, if you'll excuse the pun
Knowing your own boat (lovely by the way) and liferaft would be the most beneficial I would have thought, the training won't hurt and may well give you something that could one day make the difference...
RYA sea survival, hundred quid and one day. Looks like it's worth every penny. Gonna try and get booked on a course ASAP. There's loads of schools on the south coast that run the course so should be ok.
I wanted to do the first aid course as well, might see if I can squeeze that in too.
I wanted to do the first aid course as well, might see if I can squeeze that in too.
OP. I would go for option 1 to be honest for the following reasons:
1: When you're not on board,you can always padlock it to one of the grab handles along the coachroof for security (or even whip it off and chuck it in a cockpit locker for extra peace of mind. .
2: It is a damn site easier getting to the middle of the coachroof than a wildly pitching transom in heavy weather, as the centre of the boat has hardly any movement compared to the ends
3: The area below the vang is kind of dead space on a cruising yacht, so you aren't compromising usability as you would if you mounted it on the transom
4: The boat will sail a lot better with it in the middle. 1/4 ton of deadweight hanging over the back of the boat will compromise handling massively.
Whatever you do, tmake sure you keep one or two well prepared grab bags in easy to access places to compliment your liferaft supplies. Have fun. She looks a beautiful boat and if ou ever need someone to come out and give her a sail...
1: When you're not on board,you can always padlock it to one of the grab handles along the coachroof for security (or even whip it off and chuck it in a cockpit locker for extra peace of mind. .
2: It is a damn site easier getting to the middle of the coachroof than a wildly pitching transom in heavy weather, as the centre of the boat has hardly any movement compared to the ends
3: The area below the vang is kind of dead space on a cruising yacht, so you aren't compromising usability as you would if you mounted it on the transom
4: The boat will sail a lot better with it in the middle. 1/4 ton of deadweight hanging over the back of the boat will compromise handling massively.
Whatever you do, tmake sure you keep one or two well prepared grab bags in easy to access places to compliment your liferaft supplies. Have fun. She looks a beautiful boat and if ou ever need someone to come out and give her a sail...
For access and balance positioning in the middle is the best option.
You must however think that if you should find yourself in the need of it you will find yourself in a high exposed position where roll effect is at its max.
Then you must actually bring that damned thing over board and it is much harder (and heavier) than you might think.
One last thing is that you might find yourself needing it in case of capesizing... if by bad luck it remains trapped under the boat you won't be able to use it.
Even tough it might be the worst option, given the structure of your boat (very nice btw), I would put it on the aft transom.
You must however think that if you should find yourself in the need of it you will find yourself in a high exposed position where roll effect is at its max.
Then you must actually bring that damned thing over board and it is much harder (and heavier) than you might think.
One last thing is that you might find yourself needing it in case of capesizing... if by bad luck it remains trapped under the boat you won't be able to use it.
Even tough it might be the worst option, given the structure of your boat (very nice btw), I would put it on the aft transom.
schmalex said:
OP. I would go for option 1 to be honest for the following reasons:
1: When you're not on board,you can always padlock it to one of the grab handles along the coachroof for security (or even whip it off and chuck it in a cockpit locker for extra peace of mind. .
2: It is a damn site easier getting to the middle of the coachroof than a wildly pitching transom in heavy weather, as the centre of the boat has hardly any movement compared to the ends
3: The area below the vang is kind of dead space on a cruising yacht, so you aren't compromising usability as you would if you mounted it on the transom
4: The boat will sail a lot better with it in the middle. 1/4 ton of deadweight hanging over the back of the boat will compromise handling massively.
Whatever you do, tmake sure you keep one or two well prepared grab bags in easy to access places to compliment your liferaft supplies. Have fun. She looks a beautiful boat and if ou ever need someone to come out and give her a sail...
Cheers for that, duly noted. I'll see if I've got any pics of the roof to make sure it'll go on nicely. From memory, there's a panel that the running rigging goes over the main coach roof (no good for mounting), then a big hatch, and then a big non-opening window in front of that. Not ideal for mounting but there might be some space somewhere.1: When you're not on board,you can always padlock it to one of the grab handles along the coachroof for security (or even whip it off and chuck it in a cockpit locker for extra peace of mind. .
2: It is a damn site easier getting to the middle of the coachroof than a wildly pitching transom in heavy weather, as the centre of the boat has hardly any movement compared to the ends
3: The area below the vang is kind of dead space on a cruising yacht, so you aren't compromising usability as you would if you mounted it on the transom
4: The boat will sail a lot better with it in the middle. 1/4 ton of deadweight hanging over the back of the boat will compromise handling massively.
Whatever you do, tmake sure you keep one or two well prepared grab bags in easy to access places to compliment your liferaft supplies. Have fun. She looks a beautiful boat and if ou ever need someone to come out and give her a sail...
I've got a grab bag already with a small first aid kit, torch, TPAs, personal epirb, stuff like that. I'm actually a bit of a bore on safety, despite never having had a liferaft.
I'm looking at an Ocean Charter 8 man canister, not the cheapest but it's charter spec in case I decide to rent out later on.
For one reason and another, it's all still a bit up in the air for this year, but I'm gonna get the bits together anyway and hope for the best.
Simpo Two said:
Seems to me there is a vacancy for a better mousetrap here.
How about should be something like a giant inflatable cocoon - you put it on like a big baggy boilersuit, then fall overboard and pull the toggle - pffttt - and it inflates into a sort of liferaft thing with you already in it. No need to try to climb into something in 20' waves, fail and drown.
Something like this?How about should be something like a giant inflatable cocoon - you put it on like a big baggy boilersuit, then fall overboard and pull the toggle - pffttt - and it inflates into a sort of liferaft thing with you already in it. No need to try to climb into something in 20' waves, fail and drown.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Imme...
The main problem is that in a survival situation you really need as many of the survivors together in one place, hence the larger liferats normally used. A simplified version might be useful for the single handed sailor, but I doubt that there is enough of a market for any manufacturer to make the investment.
).
IroningMan said:
Is it worth contacting the builder for a recommendation?
Coming over here with all your 'sound logic', just who do you think you are? 
I'll give them a try, but I know the dealers all changed in the UK relatively recently, and from chatting to them at the boat show, I wasn't overwhelmed with their knowledge of the boats.
Ours is forward of the mast an its bloody annoying. Its very easy for the sheets to get snagged, I have had to go forward more times then I like to count to sort this out.
We did plan to move it behind the mast, but with reefing lines, halyards etc there is too much going on there.
Problem solved, boat is on the market - looking for a folding trimaran
We did plan to move it behind the mast, but with reefing lines, halyards etc there is too much going on there.
Problem solved, boat is on the market - looking for a folding trimaran
Something that came up on the other thread. I was thinking a similar thing last night but dismissed it as a silly idea. Why not two separate rafts?
Two thoughts;
1) 2 x rafts means if you DID have 8 x on board, it would mean launching two separate rafts, double the hassle and double the chance of getting it wrong.
OR
2) 2 x rafts means you have double the chance of getting it RIGHT and launching at least one of them, and the chances of having 8 x on board (which wouldn't be far from land anyway) are slim.
What about a 4-man on the coachroof or transom, and another 4 x man valise in a cockpit locker.
Is that a stupid idea, or is it actually much safer?
Chances of 8 x on board any distance from land are slim. Any kind of long distances are more likely to be done with 2 or 4 people on board.
Two thoughts;
1) 2 x rafts means if you DID have 8 x on board, it would mean launching two separate rafts, double the hassle and double the chance of getting it wrong.
OR
2) 2 x rafts means you have double the chance of getting it RIGHT and launching at least one of them, and the chances of having 8 x on board (which wouldn't be far from land anyway) are slim.
What about a 4-man on the coachroof or transom, and another 4 x man valise in a cockpit locker.
Is that a stupid idea, or is it actually much safer?
Chances of 8 x on board any distance from land are slim. Any kind of long distances are more likely to be done with 2 or 4 people on board.
MBBlat said:
Something like this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Imme...
The main problem is that in a survival situation you really need as many of the survivors together in one place, hence the larger liferats normally used. A simplified version might be useful for the single handed sailor, but I doubt that there is enough of a market for any manufacturer to make the investment.
Yep, something like that but more like a bag, so easier to get into. Stick a strobe on and off you go.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_Escape_Imme...
The main problem is that in a survival situation you really need as many of the survivors together in one place, hence the larger liferats normally used. A simplified version might be useful for the single handed sailor, but I doubt that there is enough of a market for any manufacturer to make the investment.
V41LEY said:
Lovely craft Sir !
Rather than spoil her sleek lines - you could just tow one of these round the Med or brackets are available.
I know where to get them cheap !!
Add mast and keel = sailing boat.Rather than spoil her sleek lines - you could just tow one of these round the Med
or brackets are available.I know where to get them cheap !!
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff