Mk 6 Golf GTI, Renaultsport Megane 250, Mk 3 Focus ST?
Discussion
Afternoon folks, another what car thread im afraid...
I will need to replace my 2008 Mk 5 Golf GTI at the end of the year and im thinking ahead for its replacement. A bit of background to my driving - I do 20k miles per year of mostly boring dual carriageway followed by hateful stop start Oxford traffic with occasional long runs back up to the Northwest to see relatives. Like any true pistonheader, I enjoy my Sunday morning hoons on the twisty A and B roads, so it needs to have a degree of comfort, speed and handling ability. Supportive seats are a must as I have a bad back.
It should return an easy 35mpg on a commute as per my golf. I regularly see 38-40mpg from my GTI on a 70mph commute to work.
The other stipulation is age, it has to be newer than 2011 plate if im to keep for 2-3 years as I get a car allowance which will part fund the purchase - my company say it cannot be more than 6 years old. Therefor the leftfield bmw 130i choice is regrettably ruled out as it ceased production 59/10 plate?
Budget is 11k to 16k ish. I have initially narrowed it down to the following 3 and my thoughts on each, in no particular order, are below.
Mk 6 Golf GTI: I test drove a DSG, very impressed with how smooth it was, good for traffic (mines a manual), step up in interior quality, handles well, good damping, pricey, hold value the best, familiar platform. Would benefit from a stage 1 remap to bring it up to 250bhp - the power it should have come with from the factory. Too similar to mine?
Renaultsport Megane 250. Not driven yet, read good reviews regards handling, although concerned the cup pack would make it too harsh for daily commuting duties? Concerned it wont make the average fuel cycle return. Quicker than the golf, cabin plasticky, more gadgets (xenons etc), 3 door only, manual only. Depreciates faster than vw products
Mk 3 Focus ST - a car I know very little about, not keen on garish colours, unsure on if there are any well know reliability issues, still a new car (no facelift to iron out design issues), lots of gadgets, 5 door practicality, unsure on looks, decent engine, unsure if it will return decent fuel economy. Depreciation.
Other option - some sort of quick ish BMW (sub 7 to 60) but economical 35mpg plus. Someone suggested a 123d remaps to 250 bhp nicely! Whilst id save on fuel, consumables such as tyres and servicing could be more.
I would appreciate peoples views, comments, experiences with either car, especially if anyone has gone from a Mk5 GTI to any of the above.
Will promise to update when I change cars, unlike many others!
Thanks
Simon
I will need to replace my 2008 Mk 5 Golf GTI at the end of the year and im thinking ahead for its replacement. A bit of background to my driving - I do 20k miles per year of mostly boring dual carriageway followed by hateful stop start Oxford traffic with occasional long runs back up to the Northwest to see relatives. Like any true pistonheader, I enjoy my Sunday morning hoons on the twisty A and B roads, so it needs to have a degree of comfort, speed and handling ability. Supportive seats are a must as I have a bad back.
It should return an easy 35mpg on a commute as per my golf. I regularly see 38-40mpg from my GTI on a 70mph commute to work.
The other stipulation is age, it has to be newer than 2011 plate if im to keep for 2-3 years as I get a car allowance which will part fund the purchase - my company say it cannot be more than 6 years old. Therefor the leftfield bmw 130i choice is regrettably ruled out as it ceased production 59/10 plate?
Budget is 11k to 16k ish. I have initially narrowed it down to the following 3 and my thoughts on each, in no particular order, are below.
Mk 6 Golf GTI: I test drove a DSG, very impressed with how smooth it was, good for traffic (mines a manual), step up in interior quality, handles well, good damping, pricey, hold value the best, familiar platform. Would benefit from a stage 1 remap to bring it up to 250bhp - the power it should have come with from the factory. Too similar to mine?
Renaultsport Megane 250. Not driven yet, read good reviews regards handling, although concerned the cup pack would make it too harsh for daily commuting duties? Concerned it wont make the average fuel cycle return. Quicker than the golf, cabin plasticky, more gadgets (xenons etc), 3 door only, manual only. Depreciates faster than vw products
Mk 3 Focus ST - a car I know very little about, not keen on garish colours, unsure on if there are any well know reliability issues, still a new car (no facelift to iron out design issues), lots of gadgets, 5 door practicality, unsure on looks, decent engine, unsure if it will return decent fuel economy. Depreciation.
Other option - some sort of quick ish BMW (sub 7 to 60) but economical 35mpg plus. Someone suggested a 123d remaps to 250 bhp nicely! Whilst id save on fuel, consumables such as tyres and servicing could be more.
I would appreciate peoples views, comments, experiences with either car, especially if anyone has gone from a Mk5 GTI to any of the above.
Will promise to update when I change cars, unlike many others!
Thanks
Simon
Edited by si_xsi on Monday 26th May 18:40
If you must change then the Golf with DSG, if only because of the "stop start Oxford traffic".
You'd enjoy the Megane but not in traffic, though it also depends on if you want a manual or not as while the DSG is good there is something lost on those spirited drives.
Don't know much about the ST other than they torque steer
You'd enjoy the Megane but not in traffic, though it also depends on if you want a manual or not as while the DSG is good there is something lost on those spirited drives.
Don't know much about the ST other than they torque steer
si_xsi said:
Does your Megane have the cup suspension, if so what is the ride too hard?
I thought the Focus ST had a clever diff to reduce torque steer.
If I go Golf again I would choose DSG, but I haven't ruled out another manual
No diff in the ST, it just uses its brakes. They have some really good deals on new ones from what I've seen though.I thought the Focus ST had a clever diff to reduce torque steer.
If I go Golf again I would choose DSG, but I haven't ruled out another manual
Mine does have the cup and find it stiff but not bone shaking. Having come from a Clio it's quite a bit more compliant, stiffer than any GTI I've been in though. I'd suggest a test drive and /i'm not sure you'd get the mpg you're looking for out of one quite, low to mid-low 30's is easy enough (currently reading just over 28 with a lot of short journeys with the engine cold).
On the plus side a standard GTI would lag behind in a straight line and disappear in the rear view mirror around corners, then if you get the Megane mapped they hit high 290-300hp easy enough as well as being pretty fun to drive with a surprising amount of rear end adjust-ability for a big car. The diff is a revelation though
It depends what qualities you value most. The GTI is a very talented all rounder and hard to beat as a complete package IMO. It may not be quite as quick as the Renault or Focus when you're pushing on but for normal driving it will be far more pleasant and a very comfortable refined place to spend time. You also won't get the excellent DSG 'box with the other two either.
Thanks for the comments guys. I had a mechanical diff in my old cooper S and it really made a difference in the bends and getting the power down off rounderbouts but as i'm not intending to use it on track, this Is less of a concern, although having said that, it sounds as though the focus could eat tyres relatively quickly!
I have noticed you can pick up a 12 plate focus st with around 12k miles for £16k from a Ford dealership, with a decent warranty. The meganes are also good value but it sounds as though fuel consumption could be an issue.
I can see which way this is going but I do think I need to get out and test the megane and focus.
I think the standard power of the ST and Megane would be sufficient, but the golf may need a remap to keep the fun factor up.
The bmw 1 series coupe doesn't really appeal, i'm used to the useful space of a hatch and don't really like the shape of it tbh.
Any new focus owners on here have an insight to ownership?
I have noticed you can pick up a 12 plate focus st with around 12k miles for £16k from a Ford dealership, with a decent warranty. The meganes are also good value but it sounds as though fuel consumption could be an issue.
I can see which way this is going but I do think I need to get out and test the megane and focus.
I think the standard power of the ST and Megane would be sufficient, but the golf may need a remap to keep the fun factor up.
The bmw 1 series coupe doesn't really appeal, i'm used to the useful space of a hatch and don't really like the shape of it tbh.
Any new focus owners on here have an insight to ownership?
When looking for a car last year I had narrowed the choice to the Mk6 GTI and Megane 250. I haven't followed the prices recently but at around my 14k budget the GTI didn't seem good value for money, even a MK6. The Megane was newer and with considerably less mileage, particularly if you consider a DSG GTI. It was a close one but after a test drive in the 250 I was completely sold on it. Plus I like the look of it, prefer it over a GTI and definitely over the ST. However that's just taste. If you're worried about comfort just go with the non-cup and 18" wheels, it'll be fine. The car really does shift, great handling, gear change feels nice, interior feels nice, lots of gadgets particularly if you go with RS monitor and so far I've had no problems with it [touch wood!]. Just one thing that may be a deal breaker for you, the mpg isn't great. you'll probably get your target of 35 if literally all you do is cruise on a motorway but as soon as you do any town driving or look to have any fun it's bye bye to anything over 30.
edit - Speedy you get 32mpg mixed driving? that's pretty good. I'm on 27 with mixed motorway, town and the occasional blast.
edit - Speedy you get 32mpg mixed driving? that's pretty good. I'm on 27 with mixed motorway, town and the occasional blast.
Edited by mebf47 on Tuesday 27th May 19:54
Interesting, it sounds as though a megane 250 minus cup pack and 18s would be the way to go for me, will try and hunt one down for a drive, ideally in grey, dark blue or black. Out of interest what does the cup pack get you aside from stiffer ride and diff? My ideal spec would be the above, with sat nav, xenons and recaros, although the standard seats still look comfortable.
I guess the trade off for the extra power is slightly worse fuel consumption.
Aside from the seats, I find the interior of the ST really busy, lots of buttons on the main dash. Whereas French interiors have come on a long way from the previous generation megane.
The extra price for the golf gti would be retained to a degree when it comes to selling on.
I guess the trade off for the extra power is slightly worse fuel consumption.
Aside from the seats, I find the interior of the ST really busy, lots of buttons on the main dash. Whereas French interiors have come on a long way from the previous generation megane.
The extra price for the golf gti would be retained to a degree when it comes to selling on.
Cup RS250 owner here too. Previous car was an Octavia VRS TFSI (mk2), which is a close cousin to the MK5 Golf Gti including ride quality. So firstly you can forget about getting 35mpg+ unless you stick to 70mph religiously and drive like a daisy. That's really not an easy task in the RS250. On the positive note its just so addictive to drive, even in the wet. Ride quality is surprisingly good until you hit something more 3rd world. Even then its rather forgiveable - provided your not driving through down town Baghdad.
Service costs and parts costs is ridiculously cheap too. As is insurance for myself (cheaper than the VRS!). Standard kit is superb, not much missing as standard. I've remapped every car I've had and this is the first that could 'handle' it and not go way side under pressure post remap. I'm currently getting 28.5mpg across tanks with a lot of mixed driving.
Go try one if you can. Clutch is a bit heavy but the engine's low rpm torque response is decent enough to compensate for that.
Service costs and parts costs is ridiculously cheap too. As is insurance for myself (cheaper than the VRS!). Standard kit is superb, not much missing as standard. I've remapped every car I've had and this is the first that could 'handle' it and not go way side under pressure post remap. I'm currently getting 28.5mpg across tanks with a lot of mixed driving.
Go try one if you can. Clutch is a bit heavy but the engine's low rpm torque response is decent enough to compensate for that.
From them, the 250Cup easily. Used it as a daily driver no problem and commuted to and from work offices all of the country in it, best car I've ever driven bar none and you'd be stupid to pick either of the other 2 in my opinion.
You'll hit 35 on a motorway commute at 70mph, I averaged around 29-30 for average everyday driving though.
You'll hit 35 on a motorway commute at 70mph, I averaged around 29-30 for average everyday driving though.
A lot of love for the Frenchie..when I've got a bit more time I will get out in one and report back.
Here is the GTI I test drove, just a little over budget but very well specced.
http://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/vehicle.aspx?wflw...
Here is the GTI I test drove, just a little over budget but very well specced.
http://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/vehicle.aspx?wflw...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/r...
It's a bit older than the Golf but also a lot cheaper, about as well specced as you can get the Megane.
Looks well looked after too.
It's a bit older than the Golf but also a lot cheaper, about as well specced as you can get the Megane.
Looks well looked after too.
Can't help with the Megane or Golf but i've owned a MK3 Focus ST-3 since late September 2012.
Equipment is good, seating is good, performance is reasonable, MPG is rather poor (I average 29mpg). Dealers (well the one I used anyway) is SHOCKINGLY bad, reliability was an issue when I first got mine (broke down twice within the 1st month, wire had been rubbing off the gearbox casing causing a short, dealer misdiagnosed it the 1st time, told me there wasn't anything wrong when the car when I was having issues with it after the 1st breakdown, which then led to the 2nd breakdown in mid-winter). Both times the car had to be recovered back to the supplying dealer, and I know of at least one other owner who has had this wire contacting the gearbox casing issue.
Heard a few people on the Focus STOC forum have had issues with steering racks & flickering DRLs and i've had minor issues with the illuminated ST-branded sill kick-plates on mine - they get water in them and blow a fuse, fusebox under the passenger-side dash is a real pain to access and the fuse that the sill plates are on also has most of the interior & dash lights on it, plus every single button on the drivers door on it. I ended up just disconnecting mine.
These ST-branded illuminated sill kick plates only come as part of the 'Style' pack, which also includes darker-coloured alloys and red painted brake calipers. Quite a few other owners on the owners club have had issues with these plates.
Another common problem is the SYNC interface with the stereo - there is a USB socket in the armrest so you can plug your phone in to charge + play & control music on your phone through the stereo. I've had to pull the fuse 2 or perhaps 3 times now (again - under the hard-to-access passenger side under-dash location) due to problems where it won't play the music. MANY other owners on the STOC forum have had to do the same.
Lastly, the only other issue with the Focus ST is the gap between the bonnet and the front bumper. Not sure if a car built very recently would have this sorted but on the older cars (like mine) the gap is huge - far bigger than it should be. The gap can be adjusted slightly by screwing down a couple of rubber 'pillows' on the slam panel, but you can't go too far as the bonnet will hit the headlights. I am fed up with people telling me I haven't closed the bonnet properly, and it's pointless asking Ford/dealers to do anything about it as they are, unfortunately, all like that sir.
So - overall - not a positive experience.
Equipment is good, seating is good, performance is reasonable, MPG is rather poor (I average 29mpg). Dealers (well the one I used anyway) is SHOCKINGLY bad, reliability was an issue when I first got mine (broke down twice within the 1st month, wire had been rubbing off the gearbox casing causing a short, dealer misdiagnosed it the 1st time, told me there wasn't anything wrong when the car when I was having issues with it after the 1st breakdown, which then led to the 2nd breakdown in mid-winter). Both times the car had to be recovered back to the supplying dealer, and I know of at least one other owner who has had this wire contacting the gearbox casing issue.
Heard a few people on the Focus STOC forum have had issues with steering racks & flickering DRLs and i've had minor issues with the illuminated ST-branded sill kick-plates on mine - they get water in them and blow a fuse, fusebox under the passenger-side dash is a real pain to access and the fuse that the sill plates are on also has most of the interior & dash lights on it, plus every single button on the drivers door on it. I ended up just disconnecting mine.
These ST-branded illuminated sill kick plates only come as part of the 'Style' pack, which also includes darker-coloured alloys and red painted brake calipers. Quite a few other owners on the owners club have had issues with these plates.
Another common problem is the SYNC interface with the stereo - there is a USB socket in the armrest so you can plug your phone in to charge + play & control music on your phone through the stereo. I've had to pull the fuse 2 or perhaps 3 times now (again - under the hard-to-access passenger side under-dash location) due to problems where it won't play the music. MANY other owners on the STOC forum have had to do the same.
Lastly, the only other issue with the Focus ST is the gap between the bonnet and the front bumper. Not sure if a car built very recently would have this sorted but on the older cars (like mine) the gap is huge - far bigger than it should be. The gap can be adjusted slightly by screwing down a couple of rubber 'pillows' on the slam panel, but you can't go too far as the bonnet will hit the headlights. I am fed up with people telling me I haven't closed the bonnet properly, and it's pointless asking Ford/dealers to do anything about it as they are, unfortunately, all like that sir.
So - overall - not a positive experience.
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