Charges for repairs on rental flat
Discussion
Opened a letter today that made my jaw hit the floor! I currently own a rental flat in a block of 6 that is part council, part private owned. The value of the flats are around 55k. It's currently let @ £400 pcm and has been for 6 years or so, I cover the service charge of £75 pcm. I'm informed today by the leaseholder (a council housing trust) that repairs/decoration/improvements are needed inside and outside the building to the tune of £41325.13 + vat. Leaving me with a bill of £8169.22
Having spoken to the council they tell me a letter was sent out in February to notify me of the intention of work - which I never received! Today comes letter number "two" with a breakdown of costs and the bill I can look forward to expecting once the work has been carried out. The letter states I have until 29th June to make any written observations in relation to the proposals. Does anyone have experience with this situation, and any advice on how I can oppose this ?
Having spoken to the council they tell me a letter was sent out in February to notify me of the intention of work - which I never received! Today comes letter number "two" with a breakdown of costs and the bill I can look forward to expecting once the work has been carried out. The letter states I have until 29th June to make any written observations in relation to the proposals. Does anyone have experience with this situation, and any advice on how I can oppose this ?
Looking at the breakdown, most of the internal works seem alright, as is much of the decorating, as iI suppose the Council can use their own staff.
However, the rewire sounds a lot- why is this needed? Scaffolding cost for the sake of painting a small block looks excessive too. Front door sounds bonkers expensive unless it's a really large/armoured one and as stated before the entry phone is silly money.
However, the rewire sounds a lot- why is this needed? Scaffolding cost for the sake of painting a small block looks excessive too. Front door sounds bonkers expensive unless it's a really large/armoured one and as stated before the entry phone is silly money.
If it is the council organising the works then they will already have, I suspect, term contractors at agreed rates for the various works that are required. They still have to tender the works and show you the tender results or provide a tender analysis reports. One thing to remember is that they cannot replace something with a completely different thing (ie they cant put marble flooring down where only carpet exists currently) as that would be 'improvement'. If the entryphone system is different (or much better) than the one already installed then I think you should make the point that improvements are not acceptable and they would have to pay for this themselves and not plan to recover the costs from the tenants.
I have a mate who works in a local authority as a building surveyor and he has recently told me that the costs charged by these term contractors is horrendous. You are quite at liberty to profer an alternative contractor and ask the council to get them to quote for the job. This is a tenants right when dealing with service charge expenditure. I suspect the council will wriggle out of the fact that you didnt receive notice but when I was managing a very expensive block in Whitehall we always offered the tenants the chance to make their own suggestions as to contractors. Mostly they never did but at least we asked!
I am also surprised that there is not a sinking fund, as per the previous post.
If you are letting the unit from the owner of the flat then why on earth are you paying the service charge? Seems absurd.
I have a mate who works in a local authority as a building surveyor and he has recently told me that the costs charged by these term contractors is horrendous. You are quite at liberty to profer an alternative contractor and ask the council to get them to quote for the job. This is a tenants right when dealing with service charge expenditure. I suspect the council will wriggle out of the fact that you didnt receive notice but when I was managing a very expensive block in Whitehall we always offered the tenants the chance to make their own suggestions as to contractors. Mostly they never did but at least we asked!
I am also surprised that there is not a sinking fund, as per the previous post.
If you are letting the unit from the owner of the flat then why on earth are you paying the service charge? Seems absurd.
Edited by Johnniem on Thursday 29th May 11:35
I went through this with the building I live in. The council are the freeholder (hammersmith & fulham) and the block needed a new roof, water tanks, digital aerials and external redecoration.
I attended all the meetings about the proposed work and the council invited us to comment etc. Which is protocol. Reality is that it's very time consuming and difficult to try and argue about the costs. The council instructed all their preferred contractors and the quotes they put in were crazy high like you are experiencing. As only 2 or 3 flats in the block are privately owned it was always going to be a losing battle trying to take on their proposed costs. I experienced such incompetency at the council that I gave up trying to fight it.
Cost to me was around £12k. Only saving grace is that the council let us pay it off interest free over 5 years.
I attended all the meetings about the proposed work and the council invited us to comment etc. Which is protocol. Reality is that it's very time consuming and difficult to try and argue about the costs. The council instructed all their preferred contractors and the quotes they put in were crazy high like you are experiencing. As only 2 or 3 flats in the block are privately owned it was always going to be a losing battle trying to take on their proposed costs. I experienced such incompetency at the council that I gave up trying to fight it.
Cost to me was around £12k. Only saving grace is that the council let us pay it off interest free over 5 years.
Some very useful answers thanks, my mistake in the OP - the council are the freeholder with me being the leaseholder and i currently have it let out on a shorthold tenancy agreement. I think only 1 other of the 6 are privately owned so therefore the council tenants in the other 4 flats will not incur any cost ! I will request the tender quotations and see how they compare, it's A council in the midlands which I'm told have certain employees that like a backhander.... Makes you wonder!
I may talk to my solicitor tomorrow to see if the lease allows the council to enforce charges at their discretion.
I may talk to my solicitor tomorrow to see if the lease allows the council to enforce charges at their discretion.
5LDC said:
the council tenants in the other 4 flats will not incur any cost ! I will request the tender quotations and see how they compare, it's A council in the midlands which I'm told have certain employees that like a backhander.... Makes you wonder!
So the Council will be paying 2/3 of the cost? They're bigger idiots than I thought.And yes, I can quite believe somebody's taking bribes. So if the Council won't talk turkey with you, perhaps they would prefer to discuss it with the local paper...
5LDC said:
it's A council in the midlands which I'm told have certain employees that like a backhander.... Makes you wonder!
I wouldn't be surprised. When I worked in audit rumours of backhanders were rife. Bugger of a job trying to prove it though !!In fact the main way was when one corrupt manager / employee "grassed up" the others because he wasn't getting his "fair share". In one case we had one contracts manager awarding the contract to "his" mate, only for his manager to cancel the award and re-award it to "his" mate. Disgruntled employee grassed up his manager, resulting in year-long investigation with 3 employees being suspended on full pay and then given pay offs.
This is why it's not a good idea to buy leases to flats where the Council is freeholder and still owns the majority of the units.
Apart from the door entry system, nothing on that list looks excessive. As a guide, it cost £1600 to replace the front door unit, the control box and the handsets in a block of 6 flats, but that was using all the existing wiring in a flat. If they are rewiring it, that will probably double the cost but that's still less than half what they're asking.
I've been involved with some work on housing repair programmes run by local authorities and I've never come across any corruption. However, their definition of value for money is somewhat different to what a normal business would use.
Firstly, It's all health and safety gone mad - the contractor will have to provide rafts of risk assessments, method statements, asbestos surveys, certifications for their staff etc. Most tenders are done by estate or larger programme level - you might find the tender for the work including your block was actually part of a much larger refurbishment programme, potentially worth millions and so won't have been scrutinised line by line.
Secondly, they don't much care about the financial cost. These expensive returbs are all factored in when the rents are set, usually with a 30 year PM programme. Most Councils run huge surpluses on their housing, and up until very recently all they could spend it on was works to their existing housing stock. Housing income is held totally separately to anything else the Council does. Things may change a bit now they can build and buy properties again, in fact my local Council has announced a policy of buying properties it has sold under right to buy back when they come onto the market and there's a shortage of that type of property in that location.
Apart from the door entry system, nothing on that list looks excessive. As a guide, it cost £1600 to replace the front door unit, the control box and the handsets in a block of 6 flats, but that was using all the existing wiring in a flat. If they are rewiring it, that will probably double the cost but that's still less than half what they're asking.
I've been involved with some work on housing repair programmes run by local authorities and I've never come across any corruption. However, their definition of value for money is somewhat different to what a normal business would use.
Firstly, It's all health and safety gone mad - the contractor will have to provide rafts of risk assessments, method statements, asbestos surveys, certifications for their staff etc. Most tenders are done by estate or larger programme level - you might find the tender for the work including your block was actually part of a much larger refurbishment programme, potentially worth millions and so won't have been scrutinised line by line.
Secondly, they don't much care about the financial cost. These expensive returbs are all factored in when the rents are set, usually with a 30 year PM programme. Most Councils run huge surpluses on their housing, and up until very recently all they could spend it on was works to their existing housing stock. Housing income is held totally separately to anything else the Council does. Things may change a bit now they can build and buy properties again, in fact my local Council has announced a policy of buying properties it has sold under right to buy back when they come onto the market and there's a shortage of that type of property in that location.
Edited by quinny100 on Friday 30th May 00:11
Try speaking to a leasehold specialist about your rights. Someone like this guy:
http://berniewales.co.uk
http://berniewales.co.uk
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