Monday 2nd June 2014

Steering feel RIP: PH Blog

Tap-tap-tap - there goes another nail into the coffin containing steering feel

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Maybe it was just a Friday afternoon sugar slump and failure to indulge fast enough in the posh biscuits Matt kindly bought for the office. But when a press release landed today announcing Ford's new steering system I felt a genuine sense of gloom and despair.

I had a brew and a biscuit. No, still there.

Vorsprung durch technik Lambo could do without

Why so downbeat? Well, the press release proudly revealed a new active Adaptive Steering system to be rolled out from next year on as-yet unspecified Fords. Like BMW's Variable Sports Steering and Audi's Dynamic Steering (the latter 'gifted' to the Lamborghini Huracan), Adaptive Steering constantly varies the gearing between the input at the steering wheel and output at the tyres according to speed and need. And I reckon this is the far more pernicious threat to steering feel than the much discussed move to electric assistance.

"This new steering technology can make any vehicle easier to manoeuvre and more fun to drive," says Raj Nair, Ford's VP for Global Product Development.

I should probably wait until I've driven a car fitted with it before passing judgement. But I won't. I think that's complete tosh. Furthermore, where exactly is the demand for this gimmickry coming from? Who drives a mainstream modern car and feels strongly enough that the steering effort and gearing is so intrusive they need to lobby the manufacturer for further electronic intervention? For crying out loud, if you really can't hack arm twirling at parking speeds you can already spec your Focus with a self-parking system to spare you the effort.

BMW M doesn't like variable racks either

What's the problem with these systems? The Dynamic Steering on the Lamborghini Huracan highlighted it perfectly. The idea is that at low speeds the gearing is as high as 9:1, reducing the amount of steering input to help parking and low speed manoeuvring. Above 30mph it relaxes to as low as 17:1. Fine for city driving. But the Huracan is a supercar, supposedly for keen drivers.

With further time for reflection much of the understeer reported on in pretty much every Huracan roadtest - including mine - can I think be attributed to this variable rack. If you're a driver of even moderate track ability you should, after a couple of laps, be able to confidently say 'at a given speed if I hold half a turn of lock from turn-in point x, it should carry me to apex point y and then exit point z.' But what if you arrive at the corner a little bit faster than the previous lap? The steering 'relaxes' to give you your Autobahn sneeze factor, you get less steering angle at the front wheels for the same wheel input and it feels like the car is going to go straight on. Panicked you try and dial in a bit more lock but with the rack now literally half as direct as it was the previous lap you feel like there's nothing happening. Even if the front tyres were letting go and the car understeering you wouldn't feel it through the wheel - exactly the sensation in the Huracan.

AMG is resisting the move to variable steering

First world problems for Lamborghini drivers who ticked the wrong option box but one of the great joys of even basic Fords like the shopping trolley Shed Fiesta I bought recently is the positive and predictable handling widely attributed to the influence of Richard Parry-Jones. You don't need a 610hp V10 to appreciate that. Maybe Parry-Jones needs to stop playing with trainsets (OK, he's in charge of the UK's entire rail network - some trainset) and get back to steering the, um, way Fords steer.

Maybe I'm being unduly pessimistic. Maybe Ford's excellent track record for democratised dynamics will deliver a system that covers all bases. But after driving the Audi system in both the RS5 and Huracan and noting that M binned the BMW equivalent for the M3/M4 and developed its own rack I don't think it's unreasonable to act a bit Luddite. There are rays of hope - respect to AMG for sticking to its purist guns, ditching the standard A-Class family variable rack and equipping the A-, CLA- and GLA45 with a linear one instead. But with Ford now joining the premium brands in offering this technology that kind of diehard mindset is going to become increasingly rare as these systems spread to more everyday cars.

Bah humbug. Pass the biscuits.

Dan

[ackbullchang]

I guess the same criticism could be levelled against Pistonheads. Constantly changing the layout, the classifieds, the headers. For the worse.

How I long for the old days.

Rant over.

[mp3manager]

Things were better in the past shocker!!!

[ILoveMondeo]

What the fudge is steering feel anyway, I've driven and owned cars that have "great" or "loads of" steering feel and ones that are "disconnected" and "remote"

I'm no driving god, but I like to think I'm at least vaguely capable. I'm not dead yet so must be doing something "not wrong" ...

So long as the bloody thing goes in the direction that I point it I'm not that fussed. I notice super short racks (tuscan) compare to long ones more. And for the road a longer rack tends to work better.

Maybe I'm missing the point and I need to drive these super modern electric steering thingies.

[RenesisEvo]

I think you hit the nail square on the head - where is the demand for these systems? Who asked for them? I suspect a veiled long-term approach to introducing and developing steer by wire for the driverless car. I can't mentally make the leap of faith of complete mechanical isolation from the contact patches - how further disconnecting the driver from the road going to make them drive better/safer I have no idea. So long as a human is in control, they need and should get feedback. "Sorry officer, I fell off the road because I had absolutely no idea how much grip there was or wasn't". And no, ESP/TCS/overkill tyres/other is not the answer. I could be over-reacting, maybe it's just feature-itis at its absolute worse, but I share your dread and despair.

[Blue Oval84]

I think most manufacturers are making pretty dead and lifeless steering systems already.

Certainly since I started looking to change my MK3 Mondeo I couldn't help but notice that the steering in mine is better than many more modern cars, and the Focus MK1 is much more lively and responsive than the MK3.

Bring back manual chokes etc. etc.

[SimonD]

I don't see the need for this beyond the variable assistance (rather than variable ratio) that I have in my Mk3 mondeo. It gets heavier with speed. That's the aim of these systems ultimately, is it not?

[mattshiz]

Steering speed matters?

[Terminator X]

I've only driven a couple of cars with leccy steering, they were horibble really nasty to drive. I can't believe that any driver wants such a system. I'm boycotting all of them so my destiny seems to be driving old cars forever.

TX.

[lee_erm]

Be something that could be reprogrammed. Suprised tuners haven't started fiddling yet anyway, perhaps they have?

[Skyedriver]

Recently changed from a string of Volvo 940 RWD Estate cars to a Jag X type (55 plate) estate
Preferred the Volvo, just seemed more connected, more feed back etc....

[Donkey62]

Variable hydraulic steering racks have been common place since 1993 on many marquees and some are regarded as excellent steering feel and feedback.

Variable ratio steering is a physical mechanical system. The variable ratio the steering column end (pinion)has a fixed spline and rack side has spline/teeth closer together in the middle, spreading further apart towards outer edges of the rack this is what governs the variable ratio. Middle is slow and heavy getting lighter and faster towards the ends the more you turn the steering wheel.

Electric variable steering has same idea but mounted on the steering column using fewer splines in a smaller package so the electric motor has to work harder. Like the hydraulic variable ratio system it is a mechanical link and can't change ratio whenever it feels like it as PH doom presumes.

The amount of assistance dilutes feel with less spines the jump between ratios will be greater and matching electric assistance affects it but like the early hydraulic variable ratio system its fine tuning the assistance into a linear feel where ratios change.

BMW M3/M4 and Merc CLA A still have variable ratios on rack and pinion instead of on the column with a electric motor.

[paranoid airbag]

It's nostalgia to assume all changes and trends are bad.

It's whiggism to assume all changes and trends are good.

When there's a real and significant reason to deem a change bad or good, it's neither. This is one of those times.

It might make sense in a shopping car, where fun was only ever a happy accident (although who's having trouble with those now?) but a sports car? Ew.

[f328nvl]

when I first came to Pistonheads, I felt old. I had Astons and Ferraris, not TVRs and Subaru's.

Now I feel young again, thank you.

You have out Fogey'd a near 50 year old.

Next thing they'll get rid of eight track and we'll all be doomed.

[Goofnik]

Porsche offers it as an option as well, "Power Steering Plus". It is not, however, an option in a GT3 (but it is in a Turbo S and 50AE).

The reality is there *is* a demand for it. From older drivers. Who buys high-end hardware? Folks north of age 50. Here in the US, the median age for a 911 buyer is 53. For a Corvette buyer it's 59! Even Toyota had a crisis in the early 2000s here in the US market when their median buyer age was nearly 60.

Older drivers also buy more new cars, not used. They have more money to spend as well, so average transaction prices are higher with the older crowd. So there you go. Blame pensioners.

Edited by Goofnik on Friday 30th May 22:42

[Terminator X]

Something is not automatically good just because it is new and whizzy.

TX.

[JTRacelogic]

I thought that I felt understeer by the fact that beyond a certain point, applying more steering lock results in no extra cornering force. I certainly don't consciously learn that x amount of lock causes y amount of cornering, I feel it is more of a closed loop feedback system relying on the resistance on the wheel and sensing the the corresponding lateral cornering force. I can't see how steering gearing could create understeer, or even the impression of understeer, as surely they are not connected? Anything which can give me a lower ratio and more 'feel' at high speeds without the downside of tedious wheel twirling at low speeds would be beneficial to me, so I say bring it on.

Interestingly, I watched a talented friend of mine drive a reverse steer car instinctively by feel and feedback alone. He could get it sideways and apply the correct 'opposite-opposite' lock just by feeling the resistance in the wheel and reacting accordingly, even though it was in the opposite direction to what he was used to.

[Top pup]

Donkey62 said:

Electric variable steering has same idea but mounted on the steering column using fewer splines in a smaller package so the electric motor has to work harder. Like the hydraulic variable ratio system it is a mechanical link and can't change ratio whenever it feels like it as PH doom presumes.

The system mentioned in the article is done on the steering column with a gear set and electric motor, the steering ratio changes depending on an ECU. It's not like variable assistance or a variable rack, it is genuinely a variable ratio and can change when the system feels like it. BMW introduced it on the E60 5 series.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Steering

Edited by Top pup on Saturday 31st May 01:18

[anonymous-user]

The real reason the manufacturers like these active steering systems is that it makes the calibration of the stability control systems a lot easier. Once the car can control where the front wheels are pointing itself, you no longer have to worry about silly drivers yanking the handwheel round all over the place during extreme or emergency maneouvers!

[Hasbeen]

ILoveMondeo said:

What the fudge is steering feel anyway, I've driven and owned cars that have "great" or "loads of" steering feel and ones that are "disconnected" and "remote"

I'm no driving god, but I like to think I'm at least vaguely capable. I'm not dead yet so must be doing something "not wrong" ...

So long as the bloody thing goes in the direction that I point it I'm not that fussed. I notice super short racks (tuscan) compare to long ones more. And for the road a longer rack tends to work better.

Maybe I'm missing the point and I need to drive these super modern electric steering thingies.

When I was a driving god, one of the things I used to do was suspension tuning on other peoples racing cars from sedans to F2. I would often do just a few laps, then get out of the car, telling them to fit a slower steering rack, then we would try again. Many had racks fitted which were like go carts they were so direct. A slight deflection of the steering wheel would take them round a hairpin, but you could not make the slight, [1 or 2 degrees], change of deflection of the road wheels required to balance a car at high speed.

Quite often, after changing their rack, these people found they did not need me to tune their suspension, as they could now handle that themselves. Far too many new cars steer just like those things, with their overly quick racks.

Note I am only talking about highway & higher speeds not motorkhana speeds.

We have a few cars. The ladies new Fiesta's steering is abominable. Too light too quick, no feel, a total catastrophe for anything but car parks.

My S2000 not much better. I tend to forgive it a bit because of it's fantastic turn in, but it is deadly in the same way as the Fiesta. It is no accident so many have ended their lives backwards in the scenery. It is very hard to put on little enough opposite lock correction when the back lets go, & the steering gives you no warning it is about to happen. Overcorrection results in the backend flicking back viscously, & the car exiting stage left resulting in another dead S2000.

My Ford/ Mercury Capri with it's 90s Mazda steering is pretty nothing, but also not bad.

However my Triumphs [7 & 8] still have their "armstrong steering". Yes it is a little heavy at parking lot speeds, but on a trip it is so much more relaxing, requiring less concentration than high powered electric steering.

Better still the wheel tells you if one end or the other is getting restless. You are already taking lock off before that tail goes walkabout. In the wet I can make better time, point to point, in the 7 than the S2000, despite the power difference, as I can drive so much closer to the limit in a car that gives me early warning.

And Goofnik "So there you go. Blame pensioners", I'm 74, & my male friends say the same thing, so you had better blame the ladies.

I did find it interesting, watching Monaco, that the latest F1 require more than 190 degrees of lock to get round the hairpin, just like of old, & slower steering than most modern shopping trolleys.

[4G63T]

compared to any car i have driven, the newer the car is, the less connected you are to the road with less feedback.

the cars i have driven are a 206(alright feedback), a mk4 fiesta(ok feedback) a focus (dreadful for feedback) a 6n2 polo (good feedback) a citron c1 (ok feedback) a new model seat ibiza (pretty good feedback), a mitsubishi galant latest mk (best feedback of all) Peugeot 207 (dreadful feedback).

the older cars had the best feedback, so if this is the way cars car going to be going, i will stick to cars before this ste came in, and just tune them up a bit if i want them to go faster.