Roundabouts and the highway code

[AA999]

Just after the opinion or two on this subject,

The highway code in my opinion does not cover the wide range of roundabouts in the UK, leaving open the allowance for motorists to sort of do what they want in many situations, which is what we see on the roads in reality.

For example my biggest disagreement with the highway code and this issue is reflected in the many accidents that occur at roundabouts and is shown on the diagram below:


My disagreement being the top most green arrow that shows it is 'safe' to change lanes at the exit point of a roundabout where there are two lanes available at that exit.
The number of accidents I have seen and the number of times people have been 'cut up' with this particular maneuver is disturbing, my work place looks out over such a roundabout and staff are always saying, "look, there's another one" as the roundabout comes to a standstill and the ambulance arrives with sirens blazing.

Over the years they have attempted to 'fix' the roundabout with lane markings etc. but the root of the problem is not with the roundabout design, it is the highway code.

Changing lane at what can be described as one of the most 'critical' points on a roundabout that is likely to cause conflicts just seems crazy. Why not have the code state that changing lane should only be done once you have left the roundabout behind, and are now on a nice straight stretch of road whereby using your mirrors is much more effective than on a curve?


> Mini rant over <

[kambites]

I'd say that what's correct to do there depends on how the lanes are marked on the road. Some roundabouts do mark that inside lane as exiting onto both exit lanes, I'm not sure why. I've never actually seen a roundabout like that one where there's multiple lanes on several exits but no lane markings on the roundabout itself.

The only time I'd probably use that lane taking that route is if I was cycling - if you take the path to the right-hand lane on a bike, you all too often get a stream of morons under-taking you in the left land so you can't get into it. Roundabouts like that are just generally horrible on a bike though, because drivers so often do stupid things.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 3rd June 10:50

[jamieduff1981]

I do see your point. The onus has to remain with the driver who joins the roundabout and drives parallel to the green arrow vehicle though. Any vehicle on the inside of a roundabout is eventually going to need to cross the outside lane to leave the roundabout so you have to be a bit of a moron to adopt a position next to such a car then be surprised that it cuts you up. It's somewhat unavoidable at large traffic light controlled roundabouts but the signage and lane markings are very explicit in these cases.

[hornetrider]

AA999 said:

For example my biggest disagreement with the highway code and this issue is reflected in the many accidents that occur at roundabouts and is shown on the diagram below:


My disagreement being the top most green arrow that shows it is 'safe' to change lanes at the exit point of a roundabout where there are two lanes available at that exit.
The number of accidents I have seen and the number of times people have been 'cut up' with this particular maneuver is disturbing, my work place looks out over such a roundabout and staff are always saying, "look, there's another one" as the roundabout comes to a standstill and the ambulance arrives with sirens blazing.

How is it possible to 'cut someone up' on exit by following those green lines, I don't see it. If you are turning right into a two lane carriageway, then you can pick either lane surely, dependant on numerous factors.

[kambites]

I think he's assuming that if the white car at the top is turning left, it might enter the roundabout thinking that you will use the right hand lane of the exit. Of course it shouldn't, but it's still arguable better defensive driving to assume that it might.

[EggsBenedict]

Isn't the highway code diag just saying you're entitled to use the outside lane of the road you're turning into? If so, then the usual rules about that apply - you'd use the outside lane only if there was slower moving traffic in the inside lane.

Depending on the road layout, if that outside lane wasn't there, and the roundabout was still wide enough for two lanes, then you'd still need to 'change lanes' turning right.

[hornetrider]

kambites said:

I think he's assuming that if the white car at the top is turning left, it might enter the roundabout thinking that you will use the right hand lane of the exit. Of course it shouldn't, but it's still arguable better defensive driving to assume that it might.

What kind of buffoon would enter a roundabout from the white car's position if a car was approaching from the right?

[kambites]

hornetrider said:

kambites said:

I think he's assuming that if the white car at the top is turning left, it might enter the roundabout thinking that you will use the right hand lane of the exit. Of course it shouldn't, but it's still arguable better defensive driving to assume that it might.

What kind of buffoon would enter a roundabout from the white car's position if a car was approaching from the right?

The sort of buffoon who seem to drive about half of the cars on the roads.

Of course it's far more likely to happen to the many idiots who don't signal left to leave the roundabout.

[droopsnoot]

Interesting diagram, and it seems that I am still right that most people (around here at least) don't know how to use a roundabout, though in a different way to the OP. My gripe is the number of busy important people who get in the right hand lane on approach when intending to go straight across, when the exit is a single lane. I had thought that the new HC was a bit woolly on the matter, but that diagram is just a fancy 3d version of the one I remember - the left lane is for left and straight on, the right lane is for right. Not straight on.

[kambites]

That picture has two lanes on the exit that it shows a line to, so it is, as you say, vague on that point.

[EggsBenedict]

droopsnoot said:

Interesting diagram, and it seems that I am still right that most people (around here at least) don't know how to use a roundabout, though in a different way to the OP. My gripe is the number of busy important people who get in the right hand lane on approach when intending to go straight across, when the exit is a single lane. I had thought that the new HC was a bit woolly on the matter, but that diagram is just a fancy 3d version of the one I remember - the left lane is for left and straight on, the right lane is for right. Not straight on.

Well, I think I might fall into the 'can't use a roundabout camp', then.

My opinion is that if the road up to the roundabout is two lanes, and so is the straight on exit, then if you're in the right hand lane, you can go either straight on or right. Been wrong before though.

Usually the road's marked up in the more complex cases, so just follow the instructions

[anonymous-user]

I don't follow - who would get "Cut up" in the OP's diagram?

[EggsBenedict]

Symbolica said:

I don't follow - who would get "Cut up" in the OP's diagram?

I think white car at top of pic, wanting to turn left is what he meant.

I don't get why either.

[marshalla]

OP - if that exit was a single lane, what would you do whilst on the roundabout ?

[kambites]

Symbolica said:

I don't follow - who would get "Cut up" in the OP's diagram?

The white car if he's (incorrectly) trying to turn left while the green car is on the roundabout.

Of course if a car had come out of the left-hand lane of the entrance on the bottom left of the picture intending to go straight-on, he would be outside the green car and would have priority over him in that lane.

[Byff]

Am I the only one that can't see the problem?

[marshalla]

Byff said:

Am I the only one that can't see the problem?

No.

[AA999]

hornetrider said:

How is it possible to 'cut someone up' on exit by following those green lines, I don't see it. If you are turning right into a two lane carriageway, then you can pick either lane surely, dependant on numerous factors.

From what I have seen, on a regular basis, are the conflicts arising from cars entering the roundabout from the bottom left entry point, in lane 1 intending on going straight ahead. They enter the roundabout in-line with the green car and proceed side-by-side around the roundabout. This is after all the intention of a multi-lane roundabout right?....in that it allows more traffic flow than a single lane roundabout.
The car entering the roundabout from the bottom left, it is seen by many motorist's actions, only need to give way to traffic in the LANE they are intending to use on the roundabout. (after all the green car will be indicating right at that point).
This allows them to enter side-by-side with another vehicle. They then proceed around to the exit point at the top right (marked on the above diagram), only to find that as the green vehicle either forgets, doesn't bother checking or just can't see vehicles on his/her inside due to being on a bend, takes the course of the top most green arrow.
This either cuts-up drivers or causes a collision.

I have been wanting to set up a camera to record these accidents for a long time, showing how the numerous attempts by the local council to 'redesign' the roundabout with markings and what-not have failed due to what is being allowed in the highway code.

[kambites]

To be fair that situation is covered fairly well by another fairly fundamental rule of driving, that being "check your blind spots before you change lanes". The rules in the highway code are only designed to work if people actually look where they're going.

[Dracoro]

I doubt the vast majority of drivers have any clue what the Highway Code says, let alone be following it!