Electric water pumps
Discussion
So re-cored radiator and new fan as one was not flowing as much air as the other. It doesnt have a cowling on the radiator though as its an early 430 but it still creeps in traffic all the same.
I think due to low rpm in traffic the water flow is greatly reduced as the impellar is turning much slower,thats why I was going down the electric pump route. Any other suggestions as to what to change.
The Rover V8 suffers with excess heat whilst ticking over in most applications and resulted in me fitting an aluminium 4 core radiator out of a Iveco 2.8 van in my Bowler race car. The standard radiator just couldnt cope.
So maybe an new radiator is the key.
I just hate the thought of watching the temp gauge creep into the red, although its never ejected its water contents as yet, and yes I have a laser temp gun to check the gauge is reading correct.
I think due to low rpm in traffic the water flow is greatly reduced as the impellar is turning much slower,thats why I was going down the electric pump route. Any other suggestions as to what to change.
The Rover V8 suffers with excess heat whilst ticking over in most applications and resulted in me fitting an aluminium 4 core radiator out of a Iveco 2.8 van in my Bowler race car. The standard radiator just couldnt cope.
So maybe an new radiator is the key.
I just hate the thought of watching the temp gauge creep into the red, although its never ejected its water contents as yet, and yes I have a laser temp gun to check the gauge is reading correct.
Providing you're fans click on/off at the right temp you can remove the thermostat and see if it still overheats, if it still overheats then a better rads needed
Also are you using the standard Tvr water temp sender? If so that's a waste of time, it will give you more of a manifold temp rather than a water temp
Have a look at the range rover mod, or use the reading on the rover gauge for a better reading
Also are you using the standard Tvr water temp sender? If so that's a waste of time, it will give you more of a manifold temp rather than a water temp
Have a look at the range rover mod, or use the reading on the rover gauge for a better reading
430 needs some help, fans, cowlings, sealing around the rad, and opening the grill IMHO.
I incrementally fitted:
Later fans & cowlings with dual relays (these days I'd take them out of the fuse box and put relays/fuses in the nose)
Foam jammed all around the rad from the front to seal all the gaps.
The big cross members cut out from the grill and replaced with smaller ally strips (much better access to wings etc as you can remove them to work in wings / headlights etc)
Number plate dropped down and splitter fitted (may also help preventing recirculation of hot engine bay to rad?).
I also moved the otter switch to rad outlet so it switches on when rad isn't cooling rather than hot out of engine.
Shrouds to stop so much air going into wings.
Dual control of fans
These didn't really affect the traffic heating issues, but I suspect there is a common issue with the water pump gearing at idle. You may find that just blipping the throttle spins the water pump faster and the temps go down, ie rad etc is OK but coolant is not pumped round enough. This sounds iffy but the alternative would be pump sucking more power at chat & extra possibility of cavitation ~ they weren't really designed for 5000rpm+.
Would be nice to say which fixed the original issue that you are suffering and specifically asking about, but I also sorted dropping motorway cruising temps from 80 to 65 on hot days at the same time as well as trying different things in stages. It certainly all worked happily maintaining 80c in traffic jams in 30C+ Italian alps, yet I suspect that the later stronger fans are an essential component unfortunately (economic + effort point of view) just as the factory discovered..
I incrementally fitted:
Later fans & cowlings with dual relays (these days I'd take them out of the fuse box and put relays/fuses in the nose)
Foam jammed all around the rad from the front to seal all the gaps.
The big cross members cut out from the grill and replaced with smaller ally strips (much better access to wings etc as you can remove them to work in wings / headlights etc)
Number plate dropped down and splitter fitted (may also help preventing recirculation of hot engine bay to rad?).
I also moved the otter switch to rad outlet so it switches on when rad isn't cooling rather than hot out of engine.
Shrouds to stop so much air going into wings.
Dual control of fans
These didn't really affect the traffic heating issues, but I suspect there is a common issue with the water pump gearing at idle. You may find that just blipping the throttle spins the water pump faster and the temps go down, ie rad etc is OK but coolant is not pumped round enough. This sounds iffy but the alternative would be pump sucking more power at chat & extra possibility of cavitation ~ they weren't really designed for 5000rpm+.
Would be nice to say which fixed the original issue that you are suffering and specifically asking about, but I also sorted dropping motorway cruising temps from 80 to 65 on hot days at the same time as well as trying different things in stages. It certainly all worked happily maintaining 80c in traffic jams in 30C+ Italian alps, yet I suspect that the later stronger fans are an essential component unfortunately (economic + effort point of view) just as the factory discovered..
blitzracing said:
doesn't the fact you think you need this just hide the fact something else is wrong?I have a new rad in mine and it has never overheated once even in 30+deg heat in standing traffic???
I have done some of this already, Foam around gaps down top and side and bottom of rad. My grill doesnt have a cross member Its one of the first 430s. Number plate is already dropped.Also splitter is in garage waiting to be fitted but does this only work when moving anyway. Otter switch is also on bottom of header tank (preserp engine)
Re cavitation ,The Davies Craig water pumps come with a controller that allows you to take the impellar off the standard water pump and it will operate as required with no connection to engine speed just temp.
Thanks for replies
I think I may need to make a cowling and possibly to test my thermostat as reading various suppliers web sites there are 2 , one of which is 74 deg (I think)
Water wetter works but it is a problem when idling not across the board as when moving temp is OK.
Re cavitation ,The Davies Craig water pumps come with a controller that allows you to take the impellar off the standard water pump and it will operate as required with no connection to engine speed just temp.
Thanks for replies
I think I may need to make a cowling and possibly to test my thermostat as reading various suppliers web sites there are 2 , one of which is 74 deg (I think)
Water wetter works but it is a problem when idling not across the board as when moving temp is OK.
spend said:
430 needs some help, fans, cowlings, sealing around the rad, and opening the grill IMHO.
I incrementally fitted:
Later fans & cowlings with dual relays (these days I'd take them out of the fuse box and put relays/fuses in the nose)
Foam jammed all around the rad from the front to seal all the gaps.
The big cross members cut out from the grill and replaced with smaller ally strips (much better access to wings etc as you can remove them to work in wings / headlights etc)
Number plate dropped down and splitter fitted (may also help preventing recirculation of hot engine bay to rad?).
I also moved the otter switch to rad outlet so it switches on when rad isn't cooling rather than hot out of engine.
Shrouds to stop so much air going into wings.
Dual control of fans
These didn't really affect the traffic heating issues, but I suspect there is a common issue with the water pump gearing at idle. You may find that just blipping the throttle spins the water pump faster and the temps go down, ie rad etc is OK but coolant is not pumped round enough. This sounds iffy but the alternative would be pump sucking more power at chat & extra possibility of cavitation ~ they weren't really designed for 5000rpm+.
Would be nice to say which fixed the original issue that you are suffering and specifically asking about, but I also sorted dropping motorway cruising temps from 80 to 65 on hot days at the same time as well as trying different things in stages. It certainly all worked happily maintaining 80c in traffic jams in 30C+ Italian alps, yet I suspect that the later stronger fans are an essential component unfortunately (economic + effort point of view) just as the factory discovered..
I incrementally fitted:
Later fans & cowlings with dual relays (these days I'd take them out of the fuse box and put relays/fuses in the nose)
Foam jammed all around the rad from the front to seal all the gaps.
The big cross members cut out from the grill and replaced with smaller ally strips (much better access to wings etc as you can remove them to work in wings / headlights etc)
Number plate dropped down and splitter fitted (may also help preventing recirculation of hot engine bay to rad?).
I also moved the otter switch to rad outlet so it switches on when rad isn't cooling rather than hot out of engine.
Shrouds to stop so much air going into wings.
Dual control of fans
These didn't really affect the traffic heating issues, but I suspect there is a common issue with the water pump gearing at idle. You may find that just blipping the throttle spins the water pump faster and the temps go down, ie rad etc is OK but coolant is not pumped round enough. This sounds iffy but the alternative would be pump sucking more power at chat & extra possibility of cavitation ~ they weren't really designed for 5000rpm+.
Would be nice to say which fixed the original issue that you are suffering and specifically asking about, but I also sorted dropping motorway cruising temps from 80 to 65 on hot days at the same time as well as trying different things in stages. It certainly all worked happily maintaining 80c in traffic jams in 30C+ Italian alps, yet I suspect that the later stronger fans are an essential component unfortunately (economic + effort point of view) just as the factory discovered..
I have a 430 with the engine in standard guise, I hooked up my ecu mate when I was sat stuck on the mway in 30deg heat surrounding by hot lorrys, was interested to see what the actual temp was rather than relying on the guage, forget no what it got up to, think it was 90? Then stopped once the fans came on, within a mile or 2 of free flowing traffic was back down the normal 78 or so (was a while ago now so forget the actual figures) but I sent think yiu should be having any major issues if everything is working ok
wuckfitracing said:
My grill doesnt have a cross member Its one of the first 430s.
Yes it does there are 2 big diagonal strips of f'glass behind the grill... Thats what I was referring to as cross members ~ they block a lot of the grill CSA and hamper access into the nose for lights / air filter / hose / carbon can......wuckfitracing said:
Also splitter is in garage waiting to be fitted but does this only work when moving anyway.
Yes it aids stopping recirculation engine->nose even at standstill / low speed as I explained.wuckfitracing said:
Otter switch is also on bottom of header tank (preserp engine)
As I mentioned move to rad outlet ~ spikes of hot water set the thing off like a false alarm even if the rad is full of cold water. You only need the fans to come on if the rad isn't returning cooling water to the engine ~ so logical place is rad return IYSWIM. As standard it just runs the fans more than necessary but can play mind games if you hear the fans come on when the temps don't seem to warrant it 
I'd really like to see you take the impeller off the water pump, I just threw away a pre-serp pump that had been chopped & welded, and have tried dismantling pumps with the idea of reversing the rotation... they don't come apart easily
Cavitation is when you spin the pump too fast, which I suspect @6000rpm could be the case ~ bit of porting & dressing along with careful pulley gearing for the revs you target is the normal solution ~ but obviously at low rpm tickover the flow can then get 'marginal'. Hence as I said tickling the throttle & increasing revs is a quick test in jams to see if it is circulation or rad cooling (delta temps) that is the cause of creeping temps. Alexdaredevils said:
Electric water pumps don't last very long, you would have to make adaptors on the block, very expensive for not alot of gain IMO
Just curious as I've never looked into it, is it possible to just gut out the inside of the original water pump rather than make up an adaptor? Edit.. think spend just answered that above me
Edited by s p a c e m a n on Thursday 5th June 14:04
Ahh I thought you meant the newer style front not where the grill fastens to, just been in the garage to have a look and yes I could change those easily.
Ive tried revving whilst in traffic though and all it did was increase.
I will give it another try to confirm. Can anyone tell me when the next 30deg weather will be, or even what year.
Ive tried revving whilst in traffic though and all it did was increase.
I will give it another try to confirm. Can anyone tell me when the next 30deg weather will be, or even what year.
wuckfitracing said:
The Davis Craig system is fitted to both a Lotus Excel & Clan Crusader owned by a guy in Richmond, N YorksRuns at the same speed whatever the revs and can stay on when the engine stops, cools the engine a little quicker and avoids some fuel vapourisation in hot weather etc. He raves about them and has done a lot of other serious mods to both cars.
Pop over to the LotusExcel forum
http://www.lotusexcel.net/phpbb/
and check out a guy called Lotus e Clan
Or have a chat with marshalla who gets on the PH forums, he knows him well also.
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff