What if we had relaxed emission regs?
Discussion
Apologies if this has already been covered.
What would today's cars be like if we didn't have strict emission regulations? E.g. we still had the regs from the '90s.
Would manufacturers have adopted turbocharging? Would naturally aspirated engines still be used by the likes of Honda and BMW? What about any environmental implications? Etc.
Discuss.
What would today's cars be like if we didn't have strict emission regulations? E.g. we still had the regs from the '90s.
Would manufacturers have adopted turbocharging? Would naturally aspirated engines still be used by the likes of Honda and BMW? What about any environmental implications? Etc.
Discuss.
Ozzie Osmond said:
IMO things would be much the same.
If, on the other hand, petrol cost £3 a gallon instead of £6 a gallon I think you'd get a very different answer! Big V8s and decent V6s everywhere.
+1If, on the other hand, petrol cost £3 a gallon instead of £6 a gallon I think you'd get a very different answer! Big V8s and decent V6s everywhere.
Also, instead of manufacturers attempting to eke every last mile out of each gallon, they'd be attempting to eke out every last horse out of a cylinder.
It does have to be said that I think turbos would still be very common on 2.0s as maybe more brands would be attempting to muscle in on the rallying things, which IIRC have a maximum limit of 2l engines?
kambites said:
skyrover said:
Petrol car's would be car more prevalent and we would not be choking on smelly diesel fumes in urban areas.
I think the opposite. Diesels have been crippled by emissions regulations far more than petrols, which has closed the economy gap and make diesels unreliable. They became more popular when people realized they fell into lower tax bands due to lower CO2 emissions (despite throwing out far more dangerous pollutants)
Recent particulate filters/Urea injection has made diesels more unreliable and expensive, but not enough to swing the tide.
skyrover said:
Diesel's have been crippled by EGR and whatnot since the early 90's though.
Yes, due to emissions regulations. Remove the regulations and those things disappear; diesels get simpler, more reliable, and probably more economical. If you removed current particulate/NOx regs from petrols, I don't think it would make nearly as much difference. kambites said:
skyrover said:
Diesel's have been crippled by EGR and whatnot since the early 90's though.
Yes, due to emissions regulations. Remove the regulations and those things disappear; diesels get simpler, more reliable, and probably more economical. 200tdi to 300tdi
Exactly the same power output, 300tdi is crippled by emissions and offers a consistent 3-5mpg disadvantage. That's progress for you.
Willy Nilly said:
SaqibCTR said:
What would today's cars be like if we didn't have strict emission regulations? E.g. we still had the regs from the '90s.
We'd have 1990's air quality for a start. I'll take the cleaner air, thanks. 
As frustrating as the disproportionate focus on automotive CO2 emissions can be at times, the actual emissions regulations (especially those limiting carcinogenic particulates and nitrous oxides) have been a force for good, IMO. You only have to drive behind some plonker who's got that extra 3hp by de-catting his beloved chariot to get a sniff of what we have left behind. Most gen-Y onwards won't remember what it was really like. When you had to quickly wind up all the windows and select recirc when you entered a congested multi-level car-park, or a tunnel, or even when in a traffic jam.
Having said that, I think the prescriptive regulations are too far the other direction and have hindered innovation in both emissions control and fuel consumption. If the manufacturers had been asked to reduce their fleet emissions and improve traffic air quality by x% per year by any means they saw fit, the results would be undoubtedly a better, more cost-effective compromise.
Having said that, I think the prescriptive regulations are too far the other direction and have hindered innovation in both emissions control and fuel consumption. If the manufacturers had been asked to reduce their fleet emissions and improve traffic air quality by x% per year by any means they saw fit, the results would be undoubtedly a better, more cost-effective compromise.
Back in the 90s there was lots of work on lean burn engines, trying to get more power and beter fuel consumption. But a number of factors, invluding emission targets have steered development away from this area.
So now youd probably have very effecient engines, but not so focused on what comes out the exhaust
So now youd probably have very effecient engines, but not so focused on what comes out the exhaust
kambites said:
skyrover said:
Petrol car's would be car more prevalent and we would not be choking on smelly diesel fumes in urban areas.
I think the opposite. Diesels have been crippled by emissions regulations far more than petrols, which has closed the economy gap and make diesels unreliable. And I don't think it'd make petrols more prevalent at all; I drive a diesel through choice and I couldn't give a monkey spunk about the emissions. It might sound crap but I'll take my monster torque and fantastic fuel economy any day, thanks.
kambites said:
Willy Nilly said:
SaqibCTR said:
What would today's cars be like if we didn't have strict emission regulations? E.g. we still had the regs from the '90s.
We'd have 1990's air quality for a start. I'll take the cleaner air, thanks. As frustrating as the disproportionate focus on automotive CO2 emissions can be at times, the actual emissions regulations (especially those limiting carcinogenic particulates and nitrous oxides) have been a force for good, IMO. 
SaqibCTR said:
Apologies if this has already been covered.
What would today's cars be like if we didn't have strict emission regulations? E.g. we still had the regs from the '90s.
Would manufacturers have adopted turbocharging? Would naturally aspirated engines still be used by the likes of Honda and BMW? What about any environmental implications? Etc.
Discuss.
Good question. What would today's cars be like if we didn't have strict emission regulations? E.g. we still had the regs from the '90s.
Would manufacturers have adopted turbocharging? Would naturally aspirated engines still be used by the likes of Honda and BMW? What about any environmental implications? Etc.
Discuss.
Ultimately, fuel costs would still be driving us towards where we are today but I can't imGine we would have reached this point yet.
Cleaning up exhausts has been no bad thing. Can you imagine today's much busier urban environment if all those engines were from the 70s!!!! But it would have been nice for emission regs to be linked to output per litre or cylinder instead of absolute.
We would have still had all the amazing tech advancements we have had but without the loss of engine choice and character. The regs as they stand are turning every car on the planet slowly but surely into a Golf TDi.
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