Unblelievable Flying Objects PB America
Discussion
Just watched this and a couple of projects seemed viable.
Why was the AVRO Arrow cancelled? It was a bit Typhoon a bit TSR2 and was working.
The Canadian Dynavert seemed to be the Osprey (or Rotadyne) way before its time?
Eric, can you please enlighten me.
Coming soon. Some years ago bought around 200 model aircraft from the "Patrick Wall Collection" and have had them in storage. I am about to set up an office where I will have display cases. Unfortunately I have lost the list of what aircraft is what, so I will post a picture of each model and await the collective to tell me which aircraft it is and hopefully some anecdotes.
Scotty2
Why was the AVRO Arrow cancelled? It was a bit Typhoon a bit TSR2 and was working.
The Canadian Dynavert seemed to be the Osprey (or Rotadyne) way before its time?
Eric, can you please enlighten me.
Coming soon. Some years ago bought around 200 model aircraft from the "Patrick Wall Collection" and have had them in storage. I am about to set up an office where I will have display cases. Unfortunately I have lost the list of what aircraft is what, so I will post a picture of each model and await the collective to tell me which aircraft it is and hopefully some anecdotes.
Scotty2
Scotty2 said:
Just watched this and a couple of projects seemed viable.
Why was the AVRO Arrow cancelled? It was a bit Typhoon a bit TSR2 and was working.
The Canadian Dynavert seemed to be the Osprey (or Rotadyne) way before its time?
Eric, can you please enlighten me.
Coming soon. Some years ago bought around 200 model aircraft from the "Patrick Wall Collection" and have had them in storage. I am about to set up an office where I will have display cases. Unfortunately I have lost the list of what aircraft is what, so I will post a picture of each model and await the collective to tell me which aircraft it is and hopefully some anecdotes.
Scotty2
Watched the programme last night as well. Quite interesting. Why was the AVRO Arrow cancelled? It was a bit Typhoon a bit TSR2 and was working.
The Canadian Dynavert seemed to be the Osprey (or Rotadyne) way before its time?
Eric, can you please enlighten me.
Coming soon. Some years ago bought around 200 model aircraft from the "Patrick Wall Collection" and have had them in storage. I am about to set up an office where I will have display cases. Unfortunately I have lost the list of what aircraft is what, so I will post a picture of each model and await the collective to tell me which aircraft it is and hopefully some anecdotes.
Scotty2
I think your questions have been answered so I'm now looking forward to your ID parade of aircraft
Scotty2 said:
Why was the AVRO Arrow cancelled?
Well, Scotty2, the Arrow program was cancelled because it would have cost too much.The Liberals started the Arrow program and they were the first to decide to cancel it but were defeated before they could act on the decision. Their decision was made some time before Sputnik was launched.
From the article "Liberals Planned to Cancel the Arrow" on page 2 in :"The [Montreal] Gazette" 23 OCT 63, "Gen. Charles Foulkes testified yesterday that the Liberal Government of Prime Minister St. Laurent decided in 1957 it would cancel the Arrow interceptor program as soon as it was returned to power in that year's election.[...] Gen. Foulkes confirmed the 1958 statement of Mr. Diefenbaker that the chiefs of staff had recommended cancellation of the Arrow. Gen. Foulkes said the chiefs concluded it didn't make sense to produce an $8,000,000 interceptor in Canada when one could be obtained in the U.S. for $2,000,000. They couldn't see where the money would come from.[...]"
See Gazette article at http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=Fr8DH2VBP9sC...
It should be noted that the $8 million figure is the additional amount needed to purchase the Arrows and not the total cost to the taxpayer. That would have been about $2 billion for 206 aircraft or $9.7 million each if the Arrow program had continued without cost overruns. The $2 million figure Gen. Foulkes gave appears to be for the Voodoos that were purchased instead of the Arrows but that price included spare parts. The list price of a new Voodoo by itself at that time was around $1.85 million and a Delta Dart was about double that at $3.75 million.
Here is what the Canadian Chiefs of Staff had advised Diefenbaker's Cabinet in 1958 from minutes dated August 28th, "[...] the Chiefs of Staff felt that, to meet the modest requirement of manned aircraft presently considered advisable, it would be more economical to procure a fully developed interceptor of comparable performance in the U.S.”
The Arrow program was just too expensive to continue. Back then Canada had a population of about 17 million people and the Arrow program would have cost about $2 billion at a time when a new Cadillac Sedan DeVille was only about $5,500. The government did the sensible thing and took the military's advice to cancel the Arrow program and then bought Voodoo interceptors and Bomarc missiles instead of the Arrows.
The concept eventually entered production with the V-22 Osprey.
The concept of the convertiplanes proved quite difficult to put into practical use. It took almost 50 years of various experimental aircraft to finally get to a system that was reliable and safe. Even the Osprey proved really difficult to sort out.
The concept of the convertiplanes proved quite difficult to put into practical use. It took almost 50 years of various experimental aircraft to finally get to a system that was reliable and safe. Even the Osprey proved really difficult to sort out.
Scotty2 said:
Thanks Yarramuk.
What about the "Dynavert" which looks like it would be better than helicopters landing on rigs?
You are welcome, Scotty2.What about the "Dynavert" which looks like it would be better than helicopters landing on rigs?
Just after WWII ended the Canadian Liberal government sold much of the Canadian aviation industry to foreign companies. Some of it was sold to Hawker Siddeley in the U.K. and some was sold to Electric Boat Company (renamed General Dynamics later) in the U.S.
While Canadair was a wholly owned subsidiary of General Dynamics they developed the CL-84 tiltwing which first flew in 1970. It was not the only convertiplane available at that time, Bell Helicoper, Curtiss-Wright, and LTV had all built similar aircaft before 1970.
The Bell tiltrotor was developed into the Bell Boeing V-22 Osprey that the U.S. military purchased. The Osprey's 20,000 lb. payload looks to be about five times that of the CL-84 so maybe that had something to do with their choice.
All of these aircraft seem to be fairly expensive with the Ospreys costing nearly $70 million each. It would be difficult for a civilian company to make money with an aircraft that costs so much. A Bell 407 LongRanger helicopter costs less than $3 million to buy so that is the sort of aircraft typically used.
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff