Fines Quadrupled, for all things including motoring

[Pan Pan]

Anyone got any views on this? Some motoring organisations have labelled the increase in fines draconian. Is this a case of motorists being targeted as the easiest way of extracting exra cash for government coffers? or do they really need heavier fines for motoring misdemeanors?

[gforceg]

I'm not too concerned, these are fines for people convicted of an offence. Not just an increase of unavoidable costs like fuel or VED.

The headline grabber of possible £10k fines for speeding will surely be the top of the tariff mental driving, not 89 on an empty motorway. Shirley?

[TooMany2cvs]

Pan Pan said:

Is this a case of motorists being targeted as the easiest way of extracting exra cash for government coffers?

Not really, since it's the fine bands that apply to ALL finable offences. It's just that people view motoring offences as somehow less avoidable than assault or drug offences.

[Sustanon400]

Fines will be means tested though surely , an unemployed chav in his £1200 scooby would not be fined the same as someone on £200k

[xRIEx]

Pan Pan said:

Anyone got any views on this? Some motoring organisations have labelled the increase in fines draconian.

When were the previous fine levels set? What has happened with inflation in between then and now?

[Pan Pan]

TooMany2cvs said:

Pan Pan said:

Is this a case of motorists being targeted as the easiest way of extracting exra cash for government coffers?

Not really, since it's the fine bands that apply to ALL finable offences. It's just that people view motoring offences as somehow less avoidable than assault or drug offences.

I did point out that these fine increases are for all things not just motorists, For a person to drive on UK roads, they are going to need the anticipation, concentration, and skill of a fighter pilot for 100% of the time, to avoid breaking motoring law.
For the rest of us mere mortal road users, who in all probability break the law, at least once, every time we get behind the wheel / handlebars, it seems that motorists are going to be the easiest touch for the extra revenue. If you burgle, carry out GBH on another person, carry out fraud, these are often all premeditated acts, but a little old granny going to the shops whose foot went down just 3mm more on a throttle pedal, and just happens to slip over a limit can potentially be criminalised (especially if caught on a speed camera) by a moments fall from the 100% concentration that it seems the authorities expect from all motorists.
Ironically my concentration seems to be at its highest, when I am travelling faster.

[gforceg]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[xRIEx]

Pan Pan said:

For a person to drive on UK roads, they are going to need the anticipation, concentration, and skill of a fighter pilot for 100% of the time, to avoid breaking motoring law.

I know that's tongue in cheek but it's horrendous hyperbole. And ultimately, it's not about breaking the law or not, it's about getting caught doing it.

[Pan Pan]

xRIEx said:

Pan Pan said:

For a person to drive on UK roads, they are going to need the anticipation, concentration, and skill of a fighter pilot for 100% of the time, to avoid breaking motoring law.

I know that's tongue in cheek but it's horrendous hyperbole. And ultimately, it's not about breaking the law or not, it's about getting caught doing it.

Can you describe any other activity, where such a small indiscretion /loss of concentration on the part of the general public, can result in a conviction and a fine?
They way it is going, there will be only two types of road user, Those who have been caught and fined for an offence, and those who are going to be caught and fined for an offence.

[DonkeyApple]

Pan Pan said:

Can you describe any other activity, where such a small indiscretion /loss of concentration on the part of the general public, can result in death, injury of others?

One doesn't want to be accused of Savilling but so long as they decide not to physically stop key offenders from ever being able to drive again then crappy fines is the only mechanism and yes, they do make a lot of profit so the State has to juggle how much they can milk before the cow kicks or drops dead.

[LuS1fer]

I can't recall a time, ever when the maximum fine or anything like it was ever imposed.
I imagine that even Magistrates squirm at having to penalise hard-working people while scrotes get token sentences that even they laugh at.
Look on it as a "footballer's tax".

Edited by LuS1fer on Tuesday 10th June 08:57

[Pan Pan]

DonkeyApple said:

Pan Pan said:

Can you describe any other activity, where such a small indiscretion /loss of concentration on the part of the general public, can result in death, injury of others?

One doesn't want to be accused of Savilling but so long as they decide not to physically stop key offenders from ever being able to drive again then crappy fines is the only mechanism and yes, they do make a lot of profit so the State has to juggle how much they can milk before the cow kicks or drops dead.

Burglaries and GBH can often result in loss of life. the difference is there are lot more people on the roads, than those prepared to commit pre meditated offences, but yes those who drive really badly do need taking off the roads completely, My criticism is the ease at which the majority of relatively safe road users can become fined and criminalized, for a moments indiscretion.

[R0G]

Apart from extreme cases I cannot see much is going to change

Its the points which most are concerned about so if they really wanted to make drivers think more then they need to increase those

[Pan Pan]

Again this is all `wrong end' reaction from governments. if they focused more on providing proper road training for all road users (especially children) they could improve road safety. But no, they give little or no roads use/ road safety training, allow manufacturers to produce and sell high performance cars. and provide `some' roads where that performance `might' be used. and then sit back and and watch the cash from fines roll in.

[Lowtimer]

Pan Pan said:

I did point out that these fine increases are for all things not just motorists, For a person to drive on UK roads, they are going to need the anticipation, concentration, and skill of a fighter pilot for 100% of the time, to avoid breaking motoring law.

Oh, come on. If you drive 20,000 to 30,000 miles a year, often pressing on to get to your destination it is unlikely that you will do so without being in technical breach of the letter of the law from time to time.

But that does not mean getting taken to the cleaners by the courts.

I am not a fighter pilot. I am not a Formula 1 driver. Nor am I a saint. I have been a high-mileage driving on the UK roads for 34 years and have always treated speed limits as a factor to be taken into consideration rather than to be obeyed blindly. In all that time I've been nicked for speeding precisely once, and once for running a red light (which was really speed related in the underlying cause - going too fast to stop on the amber).

If you're not blatantly taking the mickey by speeding in the fog, in heavy rain or snow, or carving up police cars... If you're not ignoring known hot spots and camera locations... If you're not doing things which cause obvious risk to others and motivate people to call you in... If you don't drive as if to make it look as if you are on the edges of losing control... the actual risk of getting done for technical infringements is very low.

[bonesX]

Parking fine profits soar to £350 million:

Councils accused of targeting motorists after raking in 11% more in just two years



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653488/Pa...

[GT03ROB]

Lowtimer said:

Pan Pan said:

I did point out that these fine increases are for all things not just motorists, For a person to drive on UK roads, they are going to need the anticipation, concentration, and skill of a fighter pilot for 100% of the time, to avoid breaking motoring law.

Oh, come on. If you drive 20,000 to 30,000 miles a year, often pressing on to get to your destination it is unlikely that you will do so without being in technical breach of the letter of the law from time to time.

But that does not mean getting taken to the cleaners by the courts.

I am not a fighter pilot. I am not a Formula 1 driver. Nor am I a saint. I have been a high-mileage driving on the UK roads for 34 years and have always treated speed limits as a factor to be taken into consideration rather than to be obeyed blindly. In all that time I've been nicked for speeding precisely once, and once for running a red light (which was really speed related in the underlying cause - going too fast to stop on the amber).

If you're not blatantly taking the mickey by speeding in the fog, in heavy rain or snow, or carving up police cars... If you're not ignoring known hot spots and camera locations... If you're not doing things which cause obvious risk to others and motivate people to call you in... If you don't drive as if to make it look as if you are on the edges of losing control... the actual risk of getting done for technical infringements is very low.

Absolutely.

[Mr Gear]

Pan Pan said:

Can you describe any other activity, where such a small indiscretion /loss of concentration on the part of the general public, can result in a conviction and a fine?
They way it is going, there will be only two types of road user, Those who have been caught and fined for an offence, and those who are going to be caught and fined for an offence.

Can you describe any other activity where such a small indiscretion / loss of concentration on the part of the general public can result in the death or serious injury of an innocent party?

At the moment, if you kill someone with your car, you are almost immune from serious prosecution. Hardly anyone gets charged with manslaughter when they kill someone with a motor vehicle. Drivers quite literally get away with murder sometimes.

It's entirely possible to not break the law while driving. I do my very best and so should you. If you can't control your vehicle, you shouldn't be allowed to drive. A fine is getting off lightly if you are such a st driver that you can't keep under the speed limit or operate the thing safely.

[DottyMR2]

bonesX said:

Parking fine profits soar to £350 million:

Councils accused of targeting motorists after raking in 11% more in just two years



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653488/Pa...

I don't get this one. It's just means £350million worth more people decided to park like aholes.

I've never had a parking fine. Ever. That's because I don't park like an ahole. The council can't target me! They don't come along and erect no parking signs round my car just so they can ticket. Or a wee man paints double yellows while you're in the shops and slaps a ticket on.

The people who get parking tickets do so because of their own stupidity and/or arrogance that they are either too important to just park considerately of other road users, or they are so stupid they didn't see the raft of signs and lines on the road. They get exactly what they deserve and it's no as if it's a big mystery, the sign pretty much explain all you need to know.

The great british public eh! Never their own fault, always someone else to blame

Just park sensibly and people won't get fines. It's 100% their own stupid fault.

[LuS1fer]

Mr Gear said:

Can you describe any other activity where such a small indiscretion / loss of concentration on the part of the general public can result in the death or serious injury of an innocent party?

At the moment, if you kill someone with your car, you are almost immune from serious prosecution. Hardly anyone gets charged with manslaughter when they kill someone with a motor vehicle. Drivers quite literally get away with murder sometimes.

It's entirely possible to not break the law while driving. I do my very best and so should you. If you can't control your vehicle, you shouldn't be allowed to drive. A fine is getting off lightly if you are such a st driver that you can't keep under the speed limit or operate the thing safely.

The law has changed so whereas before we only had death by dangerous driving (up to 14 years), we now also have death by careless driving (up to 5 years) and causing serious injury by dangerous driving (up to 5 years).