SEAT's 'ring lap: PH Blog
Why SEAT may come to regret picking a fight with Renaultsport for front-drive 'ring lap honours
We'll be driving this at the 'ring on Monday...
And that's what it comes down to really, a marketing battle. One that SEAT may well be regretting initiating.
The Cupra's sub-eight time was teased long before the car was seen, the 7min 58.4sec achieved by Jordi Gene eventually given the full corporate foghorn. "First FWD production model to dip below the eight-minute barrier" screamed the press release from the Geneva unveiling, a claim hastily reworded for the advertising campaign to "fastest ever front-wheel drive lap of the Nurburgring" when it emerged the Leon that set the record actually wasn't representative of the one you can buy.
SEAT assures a production 'Performance Pack' similar to the 'ring record car will eventually be sold. But not until it's homologated bespoke 19-inch wheels to clear the uprated brakes, decided on a final spec and priced the whole thing up. It might be stripped of air-con and other creature comforts like the car Gene drove, it might not. One thing's for sure; it'll be a while, if ever, before you can buy a Leon that can actually match that sub-eight pace.
Driving the Cupra on track was revealing
All Renaultsport has to do, meanwhile, is take 10 seconds off the lap time set by the previous Megane 265 Trophy and both the moral high ground and bragging rights are reclaimed. And here experience shows. Given the circa 30-second gains enjoyed by cars using Michelin's previous Cup tyre at the 'ring you'd assume a chunk of that margin is safely accounted for by using the same Cup 2 tyre as the Leon. And we know what a difference the fancy Sachs dampers made to the Clio 182 Trophy - with its blingy Ohlins items and a 10hp bump for good measure the Trophy looks fighting fit, though it should be pointed out these and the tyres will be cost options.
Meanwhile driving the Leon Cupra you CAN buy at on track at Mallory Park last week was revealing. It is blisteringly fast, deceptively so in fact. But, with little to lean against at the steering wheel or brake pedal on corner entry, exploring the outer edges of the available grip is a guessing game. No wonder Gene needed Cup tyres and bigger brakes. Hook-up from the clever Haldex-based electronic 'diff' impacts on corner exit composure too; you can nail the throttle in the Leon very early but initially it feels like you're going to power understeer off the track. Hold your nerve (and the power) and it wakes up, eerily pulling the nose tight and deploying that 280hp to full effect. But it never feels entirely intuitive and the trust isn't easily won.
Meanwhile the Megane driver's faith in that more transparent mechanical diff will be worth valuable tenths in every corner; match that with the fancy damping and I think I know who my money's on.
What relevance if your daily drive is round Northampton rather than the Nurburgring? Not much. But, in my book, if you're going to brag about something you should be able to back it up. We'll see what Renaultsport has up its sleeve but if I worked in SEAT's marketing department I'd be feeling a little uncomfortable right now.
Dan
It does provide entertainment in watching the manufacturers continue in the mine is bigger than yours vain, however it continues to ruin the handling developments of many cars. Renault for the win, no mention of Honda?
I thought that was one of the specification differences between the 265 and the 280, and that the diff was an option on the former?
Renault still produce cars that do what they say on the packet and have been doing so for years and have the balls to do it.
Renault Alpine, Renault 5 Turbo 2, Renault 5 Turbo, Clio Williams, Clio V6, Megans with increasingly long names.
VW have been pulling the wool for years.
I thought that was one of the specification differences between the 265 and the 280, and that the diff was an option on the former?
More below from VW press info, which it seems hardly anyone else bothered to read when the Golf was announced, mutter, rant...
A newly engineered electronic front differential lock is being used exclusively in the Golf GTI Performance. To date, Volkswagen is the only carmaker to utilise an electronically controlled differential lock in a front-wheel drive production model. Compared to purely mechanical locks, the front differential lock integrated in the Golf GTI Performance offers advantages such as a variable degree of locking and comprehensive interfaces to the ESC, EDS and XDS+ functions. This makes it possible to completely avoid negative effects on steering response and steering precision that otherwise occur with mechanical locks. As a result, the system realises the full potential and maximum performance of a differential lock with regard to vehicle dynamics, because comfort is not impaired under any circumstances.
Functionality of the front differential lock. The front differential lock operates without any power losses here, so that the power produced by the engine is transferred 100 per cent to the road and is fully available to propel the GTI.
The electronic front differential lock utilises a multi-plate unit located between the right side driveshaft and the differential case. The hydraulic pressure needed to actuate the plates is generated by an electric motor driven piston pump. The locking moment that is generated here is proportional to the hydraulic pressure. The hydraulic pressure is controlled by the pump speed that is prescribed by a control module. This control module takes numerous parameter inputs – such as wheel speed, vehicle speed, yaw rate and transverse acceleration – and computes the ideal locking moment.
1,600 Nm maximum locking moment. If the control module detects wheel slip at one of the front wheels, the plates are actuated to redistribute the drive torque from the wheel with the lower grip level to the wheel with the higher level. The maximum locking moment is 1,600 Nm, so that if necessary all of the drive torque can be directed to just one front wheel; that corresponds to a locking value of 100 per cent. This produces maximum traction for a front-wheel drive vehicle, even under difficult roadway conditions and in turning situations.
Torque vectoring effect. When accelerating out of a bend, the drive torque is increased at the wheel on the outside of the bend. This produces an asymmetrical drive torque distribution that matches the dynamic wheel load distribution. This is known as a "torque vectoring effect" which reduces acceleration-related understeer. As a result, the Golf GTI Performance handles neutrally and precisely tracks along the ideal line. The existing grip level is optimally exploited. This lets the driver apply much greater force to the accelerator pedal at the apex of a bend, which in turn results in significantly higher speed exit speeds of the Golf GTI Performance out of bends.
ESC intervenes more gently and with delay. In highly dynamic situations, such as in fast driving through alternating curves, unexpected avoidance manoeuvres or load changes, the front differential lock is used to dampen yaw movements. When oversteer occurs, the front differential lock generates a stabilising yaw moment; this means that ESC interventions can be made gentler and later or might even be avoided altogether. So, the controlled front differential lock stands for even more driving fun and better performance.
Dan
Sub 8 seems a formality at best considering they are opening this up to journalists etc.
http://www.rsmegane.com/showthread.php?2582-Under8
I careI read on multiple occasions that the GTI Performance Package is faster and more agile than the Golf R around some relatively tight tracks. The Seat even more so due to the combination of the new differential and the 280 PS engine. (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detai... ) The lack of VAQ on the Golf R could explain this.
Seems to me that the Seat is a real performance bargain compared to the Golf R because the price difference is quite big where I live. (Seat is 27k € after discount, Golf R is 38k € after discount)
The Leon's engine isn't very pleasant aurally when it spends 8mins on the red line either but you have to say its impressive, for a nasty (albeit powerful) hatch to Only be 60seconds behind a £1million hybrid hypercar is not to be sniffed at, even if it wasn't production spec.
I'll get back to you!
Cheers,
Dan
What I did find however is mtm offering a canned remap for the new Cupra 280 which increases the output to 350 PS. That should put this car into A45 territory at almost half the price. Datasheet of the remap here.
Seems like the hot hatch bargain of the century if this VAQ can actually put down the whole 350 PS over the front axle.
What I did find however is mtm offering a canned remap for the new Cupra 280 which increases the output to 350 PS. That should put this car into A45 territory at almost half the price. Datasheet of the remap here.
Seems like the hot hatch bargain of the century if this VAQ can actually put down the whole 350 PS over the front axle.
My only point is that considering it is not a regulated measure of production car performance, any claims or counterclaims are under clear scrutiny of common sense.
Even if one's exact actual car lapped the ring in 'under eight' at the hands of a seasoned expert driver in the employ of the manufacturer, does it even matter to 99% of owners in 99% of situations. Of course not.
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