Hard sell on insurance

[oilslick]

Was at a main dealer today buying a car after being presented with a big bill for the LS400 and deciding to scrap it.

All was going well until the sales guy I was dealing with presented me with a quote form for all sorts of insurances - minor scuff insurance, tyre insurance, key insurance, GAP insurance and something else I can't remember.

I told him I wasn't interested and he seemed fine. Couple of minutes later his manager appears out of his office and starts giving me the hard sell. After a few minutes I told him that I was there to buy a car, not insurance and if he didn't want to sell me a car I'd go and buy one somewhere else.

Fortunately this brought it to an end and he skulked back to his office, no doubt cursing under his breath.
Then I had to take some pain in the arse insurance questionnaire which advised my which insurances I should be buying (apparently it's required for Financial Conduct Agency compliance or something...) and I declined yet again.

Has anyone else had a similar experience? It's been ages since I went to a main dealer and I'm sure except for them trying it on with Supaguard there wasn't any of this crap involved. It used to be much simpler!

[Dave Hedgehog]

audi's "insurance" and extra's package came to 3 grand for my car lol


i got 4 year 20 grand RTI GAP from ALA for £200

btw if you have finance you need GAP imo

[kmpowell]

oilslick said:

Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Unfortunately it's standard practice these days. For my A6 purchase I could see the salesman 'prepping' to go through a big long 8 page 'list' of tyre insurance (£500 for a year!) etc etc, so I told him I wasn't interested and if he wanted to run through the list he could gladly do so but I would be putting my headphones in until he'd finished. He thought I was joking and duly started his sales spiel. I reached down into my bag, pulled out the headphones and started listening to music.

Much to his dismay, he stopped and looked at me blankly. I pulled my headphones out, said "finished?" and explained again that I wasn't interested. He got up in a huff and got the sales manager who flew out of his office like I'd just threatened to burn his family. The sales manager proceeded to get really shirty with me saying it was all for my own benefit and it was FCA regulations. I pointed out it was FCA regulations to explain the PCP I was taking out, NOT the add-ons he was trying to upsell. He realised he was onto a loser and sulked back to his office.

[hornetrider]

kmpowell said:

I told him I wasn't interested and if he wanted to run through the list he could gladly do so but I would be putting my headphones in until he'd finished. He thought I was joking and started his bile spiel. I reached down into my bag, pulled out the headphones and started listening to music.

Much to his dismay, he stopped and looked at me blankly. I pulled my headphones out, said "finished?"

Brilliant!

[IanCress]

I find politely saying 'no' works just as well. Seriously, you put headphones in as someone was speaking to you? Are you 12?

[northwest monkey]

IanCress said:

I find politely saying 'no' works just as well. Seriously, you put headphones in as someone was speaking to you? Are you 12?

You haven't been near a main dealer for a while have you. They are relentless. I had one last year trying to convince me that it was cheaper to take finance than it was for me to pay cash. That's before we got started on the tyre insurance, paint insurance, ashtray insurance etc etc. I threatened to walk out after politely saying "no" several times. What annoyed me was the fact he (and his boss) were telling me it was the FSA rules so they had to do it by law - even though I was paying cash

[CYMR0]

They kind of do need to explain the options though.

If you did buy a car on finance and find that it was written off owing more than it was worth, and there was a product that could have made that issue go away - you'd be annoyed that you weren't told about it. (The fact that the dealer product probably isn't competitive is irrelevant, at least you should know about it). Therefore they have to do a needs statement to ensure that they are informing you about products that meet your needs.

Similarly, if a finance deal attracts a £2k manufacturer contribution but only £1k of interest (and they do exist, particularly if you pay them back early!) then guess what, finance is cheaper than cash, even before you start factoring interest on money in the bank into account.

That said, once they have explained the offering and you have listened politely (and preferably informed yourself of what you could get that insurance for on the wider market, and what it involves) then they shouldn't take it any further.

[oilslick]

Dave Hedgehog said:

audi's "insurance" and extra's package came to 3 grand for my car lol


i got 4 year 20 grand RTI GAP from ALA for £200

btw if you have finance you need GAP imo

Thanks for the tip on ALA, just sorted out 5 year GAP for less than half what the dealer quoted

[kmpowell]

IanCress said:

I find politely saying 'no' works just as well. Seriously, you put headphones in as someone was speaking to you? Are you 12?

No I'm not 12, I'm treating them with the same contempt they are showing me. I said I wouldn't be interested, but they continued bullstting & scaremongering to try and get me to buy into these needless rip-off products.

CYMR0 said:

examples

You see I disagree. When I buy a car I have no expectation that a dealer should cover me if I fail to do my own due-diligence on the product I'm buying. Society has evolved into a 'blame culture' which has allowed this sort of parasitic behaviour to evolve.

CYMR0 said:

That said, once they have explained the offering and you have listened politely (and preferably informed yourself of what you could get that insurance for on the wider market, and what it involves) then they shouldn't take it any further.

... and that's the crux of this thread, they don't take a 'no' for an answer.

[northwest monkey]

CYMR0 said:

They kind of do need to explain the options though.

If you did buy a car on finance and find that it was written off owing more than it was worth, and there was a product that could have made that issue go away - you'd be annoyed that you weren't told about it. (The fact that the dealer product probably isn't competitive is irrelevant, at least you should know about it). Therefore they have to do a needs statement to ensure that they are informing you about products that meet your needs.

Similarly, if a finance deal attracts a £2k manufacturer contribution but only £1k of interest (and they do exist, particularly if you pay them back early!) then guess what, finance is cheaper than cash, even before you start factoring interest on money in the bank into account.

That said, once they have explained the offering and you have listened politely (and preferably informed yourself of what you could get that insurance for on the wider market, and what it involves) then they shouldn't take it any further.

I was buying a used car - no manufacturer contributions for me!

A BMW dealer I used a bit ago were actually very good for this - they told me what products were available, I said no. They gave me some information to take away and read but they didn't pressure.

[Justin Case]

oilslick said:

All was going well until the sales guy I was dealing with presented me with a quote form for all sorts of insurances - minor scuff insurance, tyre insurance, key insurance, GAP insurance and something else I can't remember.

Was it insurance against being mis-sold all the other insurances?

[Dave Hedgehog]

oilslick said:

All was going well until the sales guy I was dealing with presented me with a quote form for all sorts of insurances - minor scuff insurance, tyre insurance, key insurance, GAP insurance and something else I can't remember.

paint protection? for more than what it costs to get the car fully detailed no doubt lol

[GarryDK]

kmpowell said:

Unfortunately it's standard practice these days. For my A6 purchase I could see the salesman 'prepping' to go through a big long 8 page 'list' of tyre insurance (£500 for a year!) etc etc, so I told him I wasn't interested and if he wanted to run through the list he could gladly do so but I would be putting my headphones in until he'd finished. He thought I was joking and duly started his sales spiel. I reached down into my bag, pulled out the headphones and started listening to music.

Much to his dismay, he stopped and looked at me blankly. I pulled my headphones out, said "finished?" and explained again that I wasn't interested. He got up in a huff and got the sales manager who flew out of his office like I'd just threatened to burn his family. The sales manager proceeded to get really shirty with me saying it was all for my own benefit and it was FCA regulations. I pointed out it was FCA regulations to explain the PCP I was taking out, NOT the add-ons he was trying to upsell. He realised he was onto a loser and sulked back to his office.

Yeah ok ....

[xRIEx]

kmpowell said:

The sales manager proceeded to get really shirty with me saying it was all for my own benefit and it was FCA regulations. I pointed out it was FCA regulations to explain the PCP I was taking out, NOT the add-ons he was trying to upsell.

That is not true - for any general insurance product a Demands & Needs statement has to be produced detailing what they have identified that you need, which product(s) they are recommending and why, list anything they recommend that you have declined, and anything that you want that they are unable to provide.

This is to ensure that everyone (to the lowest common denominator) knows what they are covered for and what they are not covered for. You may have more knowledge than that lowest common denominator and may not need all the handholding, but it's evident from your statement above that you don't know as much as you think you do (which is even more dangerous, wisest is he who knows he does not know, etc.). It may be a hassle listening to all the gumph but they're trying to give you all the information you need to make an informed decision.

You sound extremely arrogant and rude, tbh.

[oilslick]

Dave Hedgehog said:

paint protection? for more than what it costs to get the car fully detailed no doubt lol

Yes, got offered that too, £299 if I remember rightly. Told him I had an almost full tin of Collinite that should do the job just fine and he looked at me blankly...

[HTP99]

northwest monkey said:

IanCress said:

I find politely saying 'no' works just as well. Seriously, you put headphones in as someone was speaking to you? Are you 12?

You haven't been near a main dealer for a while have you. They are relentless. I had one last year trying to convince me that it was cheaper to take finance than it was for me to pay cash. That's before we got started on the tyre insurance, paint insurance, ashtray insurance etc etc. I threatened to walk out after politely saying "no" several times. What annoyed me was the fact he (and his boss) were telling me it was the FSA rules so they had to do it by law - even though I was paying cash

Regardless of how you are financing the car the FCA; formerly the FSA, also cover the selling of insurance products, such as GAP, VRIP, extended warranty, tyre insurance etc.

If a dealer sells insurance based products then they are obliged to tell you about them, you don't have to buy them, you don't have to act a tit or a billy big bks when presented with them just politely decline, sign the paperwork and move on without coming across as a cock.

Not all of the last paragraph was aimed at you northwest just others who have already posted.

Edited by HTP99 on Wednesday 11th June 13:25

[chrispmartha]

xRIEx said:

That is not true - for any general insurance product a Demands & Needs statement has to be produced detailing what they have identified that you need, which product(s) they are recommending and why, list anything they recommend that you have declined, and anything that you want that they are unable to provide.

This is to ensure that everyone (to the lowest common denominator) knows what they are covered for and what they are not covered for. You may have more knowledge than that lowest common denominator and may not need all the handholding, but it's evident from your statement above that you don't know as much as you think you do (which is even more dangerous, wisest is he who knows he does not know, etc.). It may be a hassle listening to all the gumph but they're trying to give you all the information you need to make an informed decision.

You sound extremely arrogant and rude, tbh.

Agreed, and would probably the first person to moan if something did go wrong and he didn't have any of the insurances stating well they didn't tell me.

Ive recently got a business lease with BMW, they told me about the various insurances they offer and what they cover, I listened as any polite courteous person would do but informed them that I would probably sort my own insurances out (GAP etc) and they said thats fine but they were duty bound to tell me what they can offer, it took around 5 minutes and it was all perfectly pleasant.

I don't see the need to get shirty with people just doing their job.

[oilslick]

HTP99 said:

Regardless of how you are financing the car the FCA; formerly the FSA, also cover the selling of insurance products, such as GAP, VRIP, extended warranty, tyre insurance etc.

If a dealer sells insurance based products then they are obliged to tell you about them, you don't have to buy them, you don't have to act a tit or a billy big bks when presented with them just politely decline, sign the paperwork and move on without coming across as a cock.

I understand the obligation to tell me about them, it was the hard sell I experienced this morning that pissed me off. I realise they're on commission to sell these things but I found it quite an unpleasant experience.

[xRIEx]

northwest monkey said:

What annoyed me was the fact he (and his boss) were telling me it was the FSA rules so they had to do it by law - even though I was paying cash

It is.

[northwest monkey]

HTP99 said:

northwest monkey said:

IanCress said:

I find politely saying 'no' works just as well. Seriously, you put headphones in as someone was speaking to you? Are you 12?

You haven't been near a main dealer for a while have you. They are relentless. I had one last year trying to convince me that it was cheaper to take finance than it was for me to pay cash. That's before we got started on the tyre insurance, paint insurance, ashtray insurance etc etc. I threatened to walk out after politely saying "no" several times. What annoyed me was the fact he (and his boss) were telling me it was the FSA rules so they had to do it by law - even though I was paying cash

Regardless of how you are financing the car the FCA; formerly the FSA, also cover the selling of insurance products, such as GAP, VRIP, extended warranty, tyre insurance etc.

If a dealer sells insurance based products then they are obliged to tell you about them, you don't have to buy them, you don't have to act a tit or a billy big bks when presented with them just politely decline, sign the paperwork and move on without coming across as a cock.

I've got no objection to somebody telling me about something and letting me, as a grown-up, making a decision as to whether or not I need it. What I do object to is someone when they have been told I don't want it insist on continuing to tell me about it and then getting the sales manager involved so he can then tell me how the world will end if I don't have tyre insurance or whatever.

I've been in sales for 25 years so please don't patronise me - I know selling the additional extras are where a lot of the profit is. Dixons and the like used to be notorious for trying to force this sort of st, however these days they seem a lot better. They will offer cover when you buy a TV / washing machine etc, but don't fking harp on about it and certainly don't try and make you sign something to say you don't want it. I'm not saying all the products offered in a dealer are a load of crap but you know what, sometimes I like to live on the edge and decide to go without Paint Protection - I'm like that you see.