Nurburgring Lap times getting out of hand!

[Bezza1969]

I know this is old news now, but is anyone apart from me a bit naffed off with the Seat Leon FWD record that has been banded about, 7 mins 58 something. Basically, I refuse to believe this time was set in a standard car that you and I can buy. The Leon is a decent enough steer, but a recent track test over on EVO Mag showed it couldn't even match a Megane RS around the Bedford Autodrome. Now of course we have Honda trying to beat it with the Civic Type R...

I remember 2 or 3 years ago a modified Subaru impreza STI setting a record and it needed over 400 BHP to get below 8 mins.....

So time for more transparency and less obsession with the ring and manufacturers to honestly admit that a Standard FWD hot hatch on road tyres won't get below 8 mins round the ring?

[911Motorsport]

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/I...

Is the record-breaking Seat Leon Cupra identical to the one I can buy?

Almost. Powertrain-wise, it’s the same 276bhp turbo’d four-pot driving the front wheels through a six-speed DSG transmission. However, the record run car boasted a new optional ‘Performance Pack’ including Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres.

The Performance Pack isn’t yet available in the UK, though Seat says it may change its mind if demand is sufficient. Don’t forget, VW offers a Performance Pack for the Golf GTI, which includes a limited-slip front differential, upgraded brakes, and a 10bhp engine boost.

[Kawasicki]

Bezza1969 said:

I know this is old news now, but is anyone apart from me a bit naffed off with the Seat Leon FWD record that has been banded about, 7 mins 58 something. Basically, I refuse to believe this time was set in a standard car that you and I can buy. The Leon is a decent enough steer, but a recent track test over on EVO Mag showed it couldn't even match a Megane RS around the Bedford Autodrome. Now of course we have Honda trying to beat it with the Civic Type R...

I remember 2 or 3 years ago a modified Subaru impreza STI setting a record and it needed over 400 BHP to get below 8 mins.....

So time for more transparency and less obsession with the ring and manufacturers to honestly admit that a Standard FWD hot hatch on road tyres won't get below 8 mins round the ring?

Why would one not get below 8 mins, sorted suspension, grippy tyres, big horsepower and a decent driver...done.

[911Motorsport]

Kawasicki said:

Why would one not get below 8 mins, sorted suspension, grippy tyres, big horsepower and a decent driver...done.

This.

I hope that the average PHer doen't think they could get that same car around the ring in the same time. I know I couldn't.

ETA: Spanish driver Jordi Gené, ex-WTCC helmsman, was at the wheel for the attempt – hinting that you need to be quite handy to make a front-driver go around ‘The Green Hell’ in less than eight minutes. Remember that next time you point your hot hatch towards the Eifel Mountains and head off for a track day…

Edited by 911Motorsport on Sunday 15th June 10:42

[kambites]

I think you (the OP) underestimate how important tyres are when it comes to lap times. As long as tyres are getting grippier, times will continue to fall.

[TheAngryDog]

I don't get the infactuation with Nurburgring times anyway?

[911Motorsport]

Yes, those Michelins look pretty handy to me;

[kambites]

TheAngryDog said:

I don't get the infactuation with Nurburgring times anyway?

I think it just comes down to the age old desire to be able to say "my car is faster than yours" in the pub.

[EricE]

911Motorsport said:

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/I...

Is the record-breaking Seat Leon Cupra identical to the one I can buy?

Almost. Powertrain-wise, it’s the same 276bhp turbo’d four-pot driving the front wheels through a six-speed DSG transmission. However, the record run car boasted a new optional ‘Performance Pack’ including Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres.

It also had bigger brembo brakes and almost no options (no A/C). More of a Clubsport version than a "Performance Pack" if you ask me...

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...

[kambites]

So can you buy a car identical to the one used in any market?

[EricE]

kambites said:

So can you buy a car identical to the one used in any market?

No. (not yet?)

I hope renault breaks the record and calls them out on this.

[kambites]

EricE said:

kambites said:

So can you buy a car identical to the one used in any market?

No. (not yet?)

Seems dubious that they say the performance back is "not available in the UK" rather than "is not available" then.

[otolith]

If they're turning a proving ground into a de facto race, perhaps it would be more honest just to have a production car motorsport event somewhere like the IOM TT course - showroom cars only competing on a real road under the same conditions

[911Motorsport]

Next week - Ford focus smashes FWD ring lap time!

Note: Special performance pack includes supercharged 8 litre V8 (option only available in Iraqi market for £78,000)

[EricE]

otolith said:

If they're turning a proving ground into a de facto race, perhaps it would be more honest just to have a production car motorsport event somewhere like the IOM TT course - showroom cars only competing on a real road under the same conditions

I agree and would love to see something like this.
The main problem is safety as soon as you turn it into an official event. No idea how to solve this without modifying the cars (which could affect the results).

[otolith]

Just make all the competitors sign something with "MOTORSPORT IS DANGEROUS" written across the top

(Yes , the safety issue is why it would be unlikely to happen, though it would be less risky to the drivers than doing it on bikes)

[ajprice]

TheAngryDog said:

I don't get the infactuation with Nurburgring times anyway?

It's the latest way to willy wave about car performance. There have been top speeds, 200mph supercars like the Ferrari F40 were something to shout about, now the 458 can do that and the Nissan GT-R isn't far off it. German executive cars were "limited to 155mph", now the hot hatchbacks are. 0-60 times go down and down. A short circuit time would benefit certain cars if it was straight, corner, straight, or lots of twisties. Nurburgring is long enough and varied enough to level out any speed bias or handling bias, and 8 minutes or 7 minutes is a nice round number to beat.

[Kawasicki]

TheAngryDog said:

I don't get the infactuation with Nurburgring times anyway?

It's like a mildly bumpy A or B road, so 'Ring lap times are a good measure of real world performance potential, including cooling and braking systems.

[AJB88]

Spoke to Jordi about this the other week.

The car used was a 280ps model like on sale, with tyres and brakes fitted, A/C removed. Still had full interior. It also used MK2 Leon Cupra R wheels made by Ronal.

He said he drove the car Renault used to set the previous record and was some 12 seconds slower than their record.

The only legal person they had was a notary from Spain.

[Efbe]

911Motorsport said:

Next week - Ford focus smashes FWD ring lap time!

Note: Special performance pack includes supercharged 8 litre V8 (option only available in Iraqi market for £78,000)

lols