Used car prices going mad...

[DegsyE39]

Recently picked up an e38 and on whole im very happy with it... Next on the list is the upgrade to an e65/e66

Only thing is they seem to be only a couple of grand less then they were in 2010! Im sure they where much cheaper a couple of years back..
I know there seems to be a bit of a classic car bubble at the minute (im thinking e39 m5) and it gets me thinking about tax brackets as many 750i or 760i's are on a 55 plate or 56 plate.

Any PH'ers have any opinions as to why the markets gone nuts?? And will the issues in iraq bump up fuel prices and causes the prices of 5 litre odd behemoths to plummet again?? Maybe insights from the trade perhaps?

Best regards lads

[bp1000]

Can only speculate supply and demand

I have a car that is worth the same as what I paid over a year ago.

However a few months ago it was at least 1k maybe 2k less simply because there were several similar mileage same age cars, now there are none so the price slots in between high mileage and newer which happens to be favourable.

This has happened twice since I have been checking.

Still only worth what someone is willing to offer. Don't well you can certainly buy and sell at the right times but it might not always be possible or convenient

[750turbo]

Perhaps the market is more buoyant as the economy (hopefully) keeps improving?

[BFG TERRANO]

Anything is only worth what someone will give you for it. If demand is high and you got what someone's after they will cough up.

Also the economy has improved in the last two years and people have more cash to splash

[Stedman]

Big cars took a BIG hit between 2008-2010 remember.

[lamboman100]

Three reasons:

1. Car prices plummeted in the Great Recession of 2007 to 2013;

2. Car prices rocketed in the Great Recovery of 2013 / 2014;

3. Cheap finance for cars has gone mental in 2013 / 2014. There is far more cheap money around now than 2 years ago. Subprime home mortgages (2001 to 2007) have been replaced by subprime car loans (2013 to 2015).

[nct001]

lamboman100 said:

Three reasons:

1. Car prices plummeted in the Great Recession of 2007 to 2013;

2. Car prices rocketed in the Great Recovery of 2013 / 2014;

3. Cheap finance for cars has gone mental in 2013 / 2014. There is far more cheap money around now than 2 years ago. Subprime home mortgages (2001 to 2007) have been replaced by subprime car loans (2013 to 2015).

But that is not really true - 2007/2008 used car prices rose by 10-20 per cent and stayed at this level, especially form prime used stock ie forecourt quality used cars and even near retail quality used cars upto 10 years old. This in turn increased the price of used cars across the board. Then you factor in the price increase created by the reduction in supply created by the scrappage scheme of 2008? This price rise was due to a lack of supply of used cars on the market, for many reasons such as people holding onto their used cars and not upgrading and lack of confidence to buy new etc.

A typical ex fleet car is approx. 1/3 more than what it would have been in say 2005 and that remains the case since 2007/2008.


As for today - increased new sales and buoyant economy has increased supply of used cars and the prices are now if anything getting sensible ie falling.

[Dave_]

I sold my focus ST to a trader almost 2 years ago who put it on his forecourt for £6500.

Recently thought about buying another one thinking they would be fairly cheap now and putting the RS into storage, found a very similar car with similar miles advertised locally for £6500

[lamboman100]

nct001 said:

lamboman100 said:

Three reasons:

1. Car prices plummeted in the Great Recession of 2007 to 2013;

2. Car prices rocketed in the Great Recovery of 2013 / 2014;

3. Cheap finance for cars has gone mental in 2013 / 2014. There is far more cheap money around now than 2 years ago. Subprime home mortgages (2001 to 2007) have been replaced by subprime car loans (2013 to 2015).

But that is not really true - 2007/2008 used car prices rose by 10-20 per cent and stayed at this level, especially form prime used stock ie forecourt quality used cars and even near retail quality used cars upto 10 years old. This in turn increased the price of used cars across the board. Then you factor in the price increase created by the reduction in supply created by the scrappage scheme of 2008? This price rise was due to a lack of supply of used cars on the market, for many reasons such as people holding onto their used cars and not upgrading and lack of confidence to buy new etc.

A typical ex fleet car is approx. 1/3 more than what it would have been in say 2005 and that remains the case since 2007/2008.


As for today - increased new sales and buoyant economy has increased supply of used cars and the prices are now if anything getting sensible ie falling.

Not based on what I saw. Prices, in relative terms to normal depreciation rates, fell steadily (and sometimes rapidly) from 2007 / 2008 to 2012 / 2013, and then rocketed in 2013 / 2014. Countless models (but not all, of course) from Hondas to Ferraris have surged relatively in price in the past year or two. I bought a VX220T for £10k and flogged it on a year later for £15k. An older F430 would go for ~£60k at the trough of the recession in 2012, re-rising to £70 - 90k in 2014. Prices are approaching a peak now, for sure, and the boom times prolly don't have much longer to last.

[DegsyE39]

Thanks chaps some interesting points ...

Seems like a mint 760i might have to wait then, There does seem to be more money about lately if im honest
Its odd though because certain cars still seem dirt cheap!! Should be interesting to see how the luxobarge market pans out over the next 5 years!

Regards.

[Snowboy]

I'm guessing the tax brackets have something to so with it.
The goalposts were moved and a whole bunch of cars moved from low tax to high tax.

My Audi being one of them.
Not that I'm annoyed about it. Honest.

[Driver101]

Car prices are far too high at the moment.

With more people leasing and using PCPs to run cars for a few years means more cars are staying in the dealer network who have more control over the market.

[nct001]

lamboman...

Used car prices rose quite dramatically and prices remained almost fixed as of 07/08... there is so much evidence for this and its well documented by auction houses, traders, main dealers and of course pricing companies.

We can thank this increase for the creation of companies that will buy any car!

I think price rises of older classics / enthusiast cars are due to low interest rates (ie much more disposable income from cheap mortgages, not necessarily from borrowing) and classic car programmes rather than anything to do with car finance companies - afterall the market for mickey mouse finance companies who will lend to knockers is nowhere near 2006 levels.

[lbc]

Cars are lasting longer these days, unless you buy German

[iloveboost]

I keep commenting on here that it's like used car prices have been static from about 2012 to now. As somebody else said maybe we are due for a slight correction until 2015?

[okie592]

Everyone listened to pistonheads and didn't buy new cars cause why would you when you loose half the value and you should never get anything on finance. So no new cars going back, less used cars on the market. Higher demand higher price.


On a serious note, look at focus RS if you want a mk2 with lux pack 2. £25.995 same as it was 4 years ago brand new!

[EricE]

iloveboost said:

I keep commenting on here that it's like used car prices have been static from about 2012 to now.

I share those sentiments and I’m glad its not just me. I only buy used and would like to avoid financing if somehow possible but it seems like used cars are becoming increasingly worse value compared to what they used to be a few years ago.

Bought my last car for less than 50% of what the previous owner paid (1.5 years old, 8000 miles - R56 Cooper S).

On the other hand a 2 year old M135i with comparable milage still costs 80% compared to what I would pay for a new example from BMW right now. Although I suspect that price will crash hard once the floodgates open. (leasing car returns)

I’m really tempted to just buy a semi-classic (E46 CSL) and daily drive that until used car prices come down to a reasonable level again because a limited edition CSL will likely hold its value better than a standard M135i when that happens.

Edited by EricE on Monday 16th June 08:03

[Robert Elise]

we're in an asset bubble: property, cars, wine, handbags......
and the public are on the hook for it, well, taxpayers are. Governments print money and then spend what they haven't got, in your name.
That trickles down in cheap financing and high demand. People with cash speculate on assets because interest rates are zero.
Classic cars should be cheaper after 2016....

(also, a lot of cars are on more than just cheap financing, they're being discounted. The M135i is being discounted to BMW finance but not to cash buyers as that would devalue the brand)

[R12HCO]

Dave_ said:

I sold my focus ST to a trader almost 2 years ago who put it on his forecourt for £6500.

Recently thought about buying another one thinking they would be fairly cheap now and putting the RS into storage, found a very similar car with similar miles advertised locally for £6500

Did a similar thing with a 225 f1 megane.

[Silver940]

Trader I dealt with recently reckons the lack of company cars has made 2nd hand prices hold up stronger than a few years back. Might be crap but it's fair to say that hardly anyone at my place has a company car now where lots did 6-7 years ago.