Advice needed due to cock up
Discussion
Advice please -
My daughter went off to sunnier climes last October and gave me the task of disposing of her vehicle. I sold the car to a friend's son who paid me the money and drove away happily. I filled out the V5 as the seller (my daughter had pre-signed it), dated it,etc. with new owner details. Gave my friend's son the V5 and took what I thought was the seller's portion intending to send it off to DVLA. When I got home, I realised I had taken the buyer's portion so couldn't notify DVLA of the sale. I contacted him and told him not to send anything off yet, gave the buyer's portion of the V5 to my friend who then gave it to her son.
I then told him to send it all off to the DVLA. MISTAKE!!
Last week, a tax renewal form arrived for my daughter in respect of the car. It was obvious the buyer had not notified the DVLA of the transfer of the vehicle and of course, neither had I. There was no malice in the kid's inaction - he was just disorganised and never got around to it - also, did I mention that he was ex-pat French? They have a wonderful laissez-fair attitude to such things. He says he was fully insured for the vehicle and the vehicle was taxed and MOT'd till the end of this month.
I spoke to my friend who duly passed on my comments about her son, to her son. I am meeting him tomorrow to collect the V5 and the buyer and seller's portions (hopefully). My problem is going to be - the date of the sale/transfer will be last October. Should I leave this and just send off the document? If so, will we both get done for failng to notify sale of vehicle and change of RK to DVLA ? I have other ideas going around in my head but before I do anything I want to see what my options are from you good folk. Needless to say this is quite urgent.
mick
My daughter went off to sunnier climes last October and gave me the task of disposing of her vehicle. I sold the car to a friend's son who paid me the money and drove away happily. I filled out the V5 as the seller (my daughter had pre-signed it), dated it,etc. with new owner details. Gave my friend's son the V5 and took what I thought was the seller's portion intending to send it off to DVLA. When I got home, I realised I had taken the buyer's portion so couldn't notify DVLA of the sale. I contacted him and told him not to send anything off yet, gave the buyer's portion of the V5 to my friend who then gave it to her son.
I then told him to send it all off to the DVLA. MISTAKE!!
Last week, a tax renewal form arrived for my daughter in respect of the car. It was obvious the buyer had not notified the DVLA of the transfer of the vehicle and of course, neither had I. There was no malice in the kid's inaction - he was just disorganised and never got around to it - also, did I mention that he was ex-pat French? They have a wonderful laissez-fair attitude to such things. He says he was fully insured for the vehicle and the vehicle was taxed and MOT'd till the end of this month.
I spoke to my friend who duly passed on my comments about her son, to her son. I am meeting him tomorrow to collect the V5 and the buyer and seller's portions (hopefully). My problem is going to be - the date of the sale/transfer will be last October. Should I leave this and just send off the document? If so, will we both get done for failng to notify sale of vehicle and change of RK to DVLA ? I have other ideas going around in my head but before I do anything I want to see what my options are from you good folk. Needless to say this is quite urgent.
mick
Edited by donofarrel on Monday 16th June 13:21
IIRC Buyers don't have to notify. Just sellers (you).
I would tell the truth and accept the fine because 1. I am honest like that. 2. Any "forgotten" motoring transgressions might end up at your door for the period you have lied about your daughter being RK = FAR more hot water than it is worth.
More enlightenment I am sure would be found in the SP&L forum.
I would tell the truth and accept the fine because 1. I am honest like that. 2. Any "forgotten" motoring transgressions might end up at your door for the period you have lied about your daughter being RK = FAR more hot water than it is worth.
More enlightenment I am sure would be found in the SP&L forum.
In the excitement of getting a new car I forgot to send the change of keeper back for the old one and I was caught up with a few months later. I'd simply overlooked it - no bad intentions.
I paid up and moved on. Lesson learned. The DVLA don't hold grudges and I was in the wrong so there we go.
I paid up and moved on. Lesson learned. The DVLA don't hold grudges and I was in the wrong so there we go.
Just so I'm clear - you realised your mistake back in October but did absolutely nothing about it until now???
I'd change the date on your section and send it off, personally. I'd also change the date on his so he can buy tax with it. Whether this is the best idea or not only you can decide, but it's what I'd do.
I'd change the date on your section and send it off, personally. I'd also change the date on his so he can buy tax with it. Whether this is the best idea or not only you can decide, but it's what I'd do.
I would not send the form off. Instead write to the DVLA saying that you sent them the log book in October informing them of the change of keeper, but that you have only just realised that you have not had an acknowledgement from them. Give them the new keeper details.
I think this will mean that you have fulfilled your obligations to the DVLA (albeit belatedly).
I am not sure whether this will automatically mean that your friend's son will receive a new logbook or whether he will have to apply for a duplicate. However he should not apply for a new logbook before your aforementioned letter has been received (and preferably acknowledged) by the DVLA. You also need to hope that the situation does not come to the attention of the DVLA for any other reason before your letter is received.
The above is the advice I was given by the DVLA themselves when I was in a similar situation (but not exactly the same circumstances - the logbook was "lost")
I think this will mean that you have fulfilled your obligations to the DVLA (albeit belatedly).
I am not sure whether this will automatically mean that your friend's son will receive a new logbook or whether he will have to apply for a duplicate. However he should not apply for a new logbook before your aforementioned letter has been received (and preferably acknowledged) by the DVLA. You also need to hope that the situation does not come to the attention of the DVLA for any other reason before your letter is received.
The above is the advice I was given by the DVLA themselves when I was in a similar situation (but not exactly the same circumstances - the logbook was "lost")
Edited by wibblebrain on Monday 16th June 13:18
Thank you so much for the replies so far -
wibblebrain - this was also an option I considered but my brain couldn't handle all the ifs and buts and what happens next. I need to work out a solution where both me and my friend's son are not penalised in any way and it has to be really simple. He cannot be trusted to follow any instructions I give him. He hasn't so far.
Tomorrow I will have the V5 in my hands with both parts , seller and buyer, and try to make a decision. I truly appreciate your input guys.
Further information - he has not driven the vehicle for nearly three months - he doesn't have a lot of money. He cannot afford to mot or tax it, so intends to either sell it, or SORN it. It is off road on his drive. But he cannot do either yet because he isn't the registered keeper.
mick
- twing - LOL. Thank heavens for the edit facility!
wibblebrain - this was also an option I considered but my brain couldn't handle all the ifs and buts and what happens next. I need to work out a solution where both me and my friend's son are not penalised in any way and it has to be really simple. He cannot be trusted to follow any instructions I give him. He hasn't so far.
Tomorrow I will have the V5 in my hands with both parts , seller and buyer, and try to make a decision. I truly appreciate your input guys.
Further information - he has not driven the vehicle for nearly three months - he doesn't have a lot of money. He cannot afford to mot or tax it, so intends to either sell it, or SORN it. It is off road on his drive. But he cannot do either yet because he isn't the registered keeper.
mick
For future ref I ended up in a similar position with the seller driving off with all of the V5 once and with me not knowing his address. I simply wrote to the DVLA explaining what had happened and they wrote back saying that I had fullfilled my responsibilities and would wait for the new owner to contact them.
twing - I thought about this too but it would have meant my notification as seller and his notification as buyer both being lost.... I wasn't happy with that thought. Seems to stretch it a bit.
If I had said that I sent it, he might have got done for not notifying acquisition. And then he would have to say he did send it.... and I don't think I could trust him to say that if you see what I mean.
If I had said that I sent it, he might have got done for not notifying acquisition. And then he would have to say he did send it.... and I don't think I could trust him to say that if you see what I mean.
Edited by donofarrel on Monday 16th June 14:07
B child - correct - not in my name but my daughter's. The trouble with that solution is that she would have an offence against her, whether she had moved abroad or not. Isn't that right? It was my responsibility to see car had been properly disposed of, which I thought I had done. Except of course, it wasn't done because someone else in the chain failed to do their duty.
twing said:
Having just read the title and first two words of your thread I can assure you that you owe me -
1. A cup of coffee
2. A new keyboard
And you didn't quote?!1. A cup of coffee
2. A new keyboard
OP - I'd go with the advice of saying that you'd sent them the filled in V5 and are surprised to get a letter - hopefully they will be ok about it. Letters do get lost in the post, but it may have to be your daughter contacting the DVLA - not sure if they will talk to someone who is not the owner.
Who cares who is at fault you aren't liable, infact if matey can't get his life organised then as you have the reminder you can declare sorn on it....
he can't apply for tax on line anyway because he needs the reminder, so he has to apply at the post office. They will let him tax once on the green slip but will require he applies for reg doc which will cost him £25....
I really don't see what you are worried about, right now DVLA think your daughter still owns it so any speeding tickets or parking offences go to her last address.... Hopefully that isn't the same as your address....
he can't apply for tax on line anyway because he needs the reminder, so he has to apply at the post office. They will let him tax once on the green slip but will require he applies for reg doc which will cost him £25....
I really don't see what you are worried about, right now DVLA think your daughter still owns it so any speeding tickets or parking offences go to her last address.... Hopefully that isn't the same as your address....
walm - he has to notify because of what I read here - it is an offence not to notify the Secretary of State (DVLA) of your details when you purchase a car. You will be liable for a substantial fine if found guilty of the offence. - from the Police National Legal Database - https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q382.htm
walm2 - he failed to keep a promise. I conveyed the importance of doing what I asked and he promised he would. I take it pretty seriously not really knowing that he didn't.
Emeye - lol. That would have looked good wouldn't it? !¬ You are half right - I WAS surprised to get a letter but immediately realised what had happened. I take your point about them not dealing with me. Could be awkward but she is coming home for a fortnight next week. She would be horrified if she knew about all this. I just want it to disappear and deal with it myself.
walm2 - he failed to keep a promise. I conveyed the importance of doing what I asked and he promised he would. I take it pretty seriously not really knowing that he didn't.
Emeye - lol. That would have looked good wouldn't it? !¬ You are half right - I WAS surprised to get a letter but immediately realised what had happened. I take your point about them not dealing with me. Could be awkward but she is coming home for a fortnight next week. She would be horrified if she knew about all this. I just want it to disappear and deal with it myself.
B child - I can't declare SORN because it is in his possession and on his drive - what happens if he drives it off? We would be liable then. Ouch! I cannot trust this guy at all. Which is why I want to deal with it my end and without his input. Once I have the V5 etc. I can do what I want using the best info I can get from here. My theory is that they will send me a 'thank your for advising us of the transfer of your vehicle....etc.' addressed to my daughter, and he will receive a tax renewal notice and a new V5 in his name. That is the outcome I am aiming for. Then he can SORN it or do whatever he wants because it will be in his name.
Yes - her address is the same as mine which is why we get all her post.
Yes - her address is the same as mine which is why we get all her post.
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