Boring what car - ST170 or Corolla T Sport?
Discussion
Searching for a daily driver (60 mile round commute motorway and London) that will also be fun to drive on weekends and do 1-2 track days a year. Needs to have 4 useable adult size seats, hatchback and be around £1500. Nothing older than 2002, capable of around 30mpg combined and 0-60 of around 8 seconds. 6th gear for motorway driving helps too. Sensible running costs. Generally, it has to be a normal car for most of the time, and then capable for fun when needed.
I've ruled everything out apart from the ST170 and Corolla T-Sport. I'm not looking for any other suggestions thanks as they don't meet my requirements.
Pros and cons for both seem to be:
Power and economy: ST170 is rarely 170 in reality, and thristier of the two. CTS seems to actually be quicker in reality and in real world conditions than the official figures, and I do like the sound of the engine on cam, although note that some people say having the cam set so high is a bit annoying.
Handling: ST170 is the better of the two in every aspect. CTS steering is less exact and suspension as standard pre-facelift is a bit soft, but cured with lowering.
Comfort: ST170 seating is a bit high, but nice seats. CTS comfortable if a little bland. Both have very similar options.
Running costs: CTS is chain driven and effectively bombproof, although focus still isn't bad, but has more possible issues.
Any previous owner/experience comments would be very helpful on which is the better overall car to live with. Thanks!
I've ruled everything out apart from the ST170 and Corolla T-Sport. I'm not looking for any other suggestions thanks as they don't meet my requirements.
Pros and cons for both seem to be:
Power and economy: ST170 is rarely 170 in reality, and thristier of the two. CTS seems to actually be quicker in reality and in real world conditions than the official figures, and I do like the sound of the engine on cam, although note that some people say having the cam set so high is a bit annoying.
Handling: ST170 is the better of the two in every aspect. CTS steering is less exact and suspension as standard pre-facelift is a bit soft, but cured with lowering.
Comfort: ST170 seating is a bit high, but nice seats. CTS comfortable if a little bland. Both have very similar options.
Running costs: CTS is chain driven and effectively bombproof, although focus still isn't bad, but has more possible issues.
Any previous owner/experience comments would be very helpful on which is the better overall car to live with. Thanks!
I've owned a 170 in the past. Great handling and still looks good to my eyes. Generally reliable, though check for the usual Focus issues of rusty doors and boot lid.
Cars with custom and comfort pack worth seeking out, as they come with Xenon headlamps, Recaro seats and a more powerful audio system with bass speaker in the boot.
Downsides are sadly that it's never quite as quick as you'd hope. The extra power over the 2.0 Zetec engine is mainly available between 5 and 7k rpm. Which is fine, but the gearing is too long to make use of it. 2nd gear is good for 70mph.
I'd still have it over any Corolla though. The only other car i'd consider in this class is the Civic Type-R.
Cars with custom and comfort pack worth seeking out, as they come with Xenon headlamps, Recaro seats and a more powerful audio system with bass speaker in the boot.
Downsides are sadly that it's never quite as quick as you'd hope. The extra power over the 2.0 Zetec engine is mainly available between 5 and 7k rpm. Which is fine, but the gearing is too long to make use of it. 2nd gear is good for 70mph.
I'd still have it over any Corolla though. The only other car i'd consider in this class is the Civic Type-R.
I've been Driving an ST170 for the last few years, never tracked it though. Not sure if it'd be fast enough for a track day really.
They need to be rev'd pretty hard, 2nd gear can take you just bellow 70mph which is fun. Watch out for oil leaking from the sump pan though as it does corrode. Clutch is pretty expensive to replace if it goes, front subframe rusted on mine and had to get a replacement from a scrappy.
otherwise mines been pretty reliable, it doesn't set the world on fire but on a quiet road I enjoy driving it.
They need to be rev'd pretty hard, 2nd gear can take you just bellow 70mph which is fun. Watch out for oil leaking from the sump pan though as it does corrode. Clutch is pretty expensive to replace if it goes, front subframe rusted on mine and had to get a replacement from a scrappy.
otherwise mines been pretty reliable, it doesn't set the world on fire but on a quiet road I enjoy driving it.
St170. Not the quickest but seriously handled. Could keep up with st150's if that's any indication of performance.
Nice place to be in. Daily driving really good. No major issues with mine, just errors by main dealers due to lack of experience as rare engine. Mpg, not great against the straight line performance. To be honest though, through out the time I owned the car, I wished I bought a civic type R, but no regrets owning it
If it helps I also had a celica, vvtli. I know it's not a corolla. But similar in respects of engine and the build quality and similarities of interior and feel! - I always wanted one due to the shape and looks and thought I would scratch the vtec itch ( high lift itch in this case ). It did not live upto my expectations. Built proof reliabity, but so dull. I also speant my time wishing I bought a civic type R!
I know your not looking for suggestions, but the moral of the story is buy a civic type R.
Personal opinion, from some one was looking at buying a car they offered the qualities they you want st170 looks 10 times better than corolla. They are butt ugly in comparison, and in between looks, the civic type r gets my vote
I should have bought a type R
Nice place to be in. Daily driving really good. No major issues with mine, just errors by main dealers due to lack of experience as rare engine. Mpg, not great against the straight line performance. To be honest though, through out the time I owned the car, I wished I bought a civic type R, but no regrets owning it
If it helps I also had a celica, vvtli. I know it's not a corolla. But similar in respects of engine and the build quality and similarities of interior and feel! - I always wanted one due to the shape and looks and thought I would scratch the vtec itch ( high lift itch in this case ). It did not live upto my expectations. Built proof reliabity, but so dull. I also speant my time wishing I bought a civic type R!
I know your not looking for suggestions, but the moral of the story is buy a civic type R.
Personal opinion, from some one was looking at buying a car they offered the qualities they you want st170 looks 10 times better than corolla. They are butt ugly in comparison, and in between looks, the civic type r gets my vote
I should have bought a type R
Focus ST170s feel slow to me, great for an everyday driver but suspect you'd find it boring at weekends - even more so on track.
Corolla's are more fun to drive, but some find the powerband annoying. They really have to be revved hard to be driven quickly which can become tiring. The supercharged version is much better but out of your price range.
Have you driven both? If so if you can get on with the silly rev range of the Corolla that's the one I'd choose out of the two.
However if I had £1,500 to spend I'd probably add another £500 and get a prefacelift Civic Type R EP3. Much better car in every way compared with the other two IMHO.
Corolla's are more fun to drive, but some find the powerband annoying. They really have to be revved hard to be driven quickly which can become tiring. The supercharged version is much better but out of your price range.
Have you driven both? If so if you can get on with the silly rev range of the Corolla that's the one I'd choose out of the two.
However if I had £1,500 to spend I'd probably add another £500 and get a prefacelift Civic Type R EP3. Much better car in every way compared with the other two IMHO.
5RedLights said:
Guys, can we please keep it to comments on the two cars? I'm aware of the other options and these are the two I'm considering. Thanks for the comments so far everyone else, keep it coming!
Asking people to not mention other cars at all is silly, people are going to draw parallels to their (frankly much better) rivals The only reason you wouldn't chose a better EP3 type R or a 306 Gti6 over these two, is because you simply dont like them.
If this is the case just say so as you cant argue with that. Otherwise you'll keep getting other suggestions, its in a PHers nature to try and save you from a boring car
Pebbles167 said:
Asking people to not mention other cars at all is silly, people are going to draw parallels to their (frankly much better) rivals
The only reason you wouldn't chose a better EP3 type R or a 306 Gti6 over these two, is because you simply dont like them.
If this is the case just say so as you cant argue with that. Otherwise you'll keep getting other suggestions, its in a PHers nature to try and save you from a boring car
I don't like either, and they don't meet my requirements. It's the ST170 or CTS. I'm interested in real world experience of both. The only reason you wouldn't chose a better EP3 type R or a 306 Gti6 over these two, is because you simply dont like them.
If this is the case just say so as you cant argue with that. Otherwise you'll keep getting other suggestions, its in a PHers nature to try and save you from a boring car
Former t sport owner here , its alot faster than the st170 .Well maybe not omg but its noticeable nevertheless .
Youl get 30mpg with the stock airbox or 27mpg with the k&n typhoon which is a must for the noise.
On the motorway your pulling over 4krpm so its noisy but not a deal breaker it did 35k miles in mine up and down the m6.The seats and ride is so damn comfy though which is a blessing until you come to a corner :P
expect 260 miles to a tank of asda fuel.
Would i buy one again... no its to slow now ive been spoilt with power .Although a corsa vxr tried to get away from me once in it and failed miserably so make of that what you will.
Insurance is cheap real cheap .Make sure you lower 40mm and stick a k&n typhoon on it and it will probably be the most reliable car you ever own .
Youl get 30mpg with the stock airbox or 27mpg with the k&n typhoon which is a must for the noise.
On the motorway your pulling over 4krpm so its noisy but not a deal breaker it did 35k miles in mine up and down the m6.The seats and ride is so damn comfy though which is a blessing until you come to a corner :P
expect 260 miles to a tank of asda fuel.
Would i buy one again... no its to slow now ive been spoilt with power .Although a corsa vxr tried to get away from me once in it and failed miserably so make of that what you will.
Insurance is cheap real cheap .Make sure you lower 40mm and stick a k&n typhoon on it and it will probably be the most reliable car you ever own .
ST170 all day long. I have a lowly 2.0 ESP that handles like a go cart and generally has enough power to make it feel nippy. Previous cars are Mondeo ST24/200s, Saab 9-3 Aero etc so not spoilt for power however it does go if you provoke it.
Plus its one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned.
ST170 seats are firm but comfortable but see if you can hunt out one with Xenons and Climate.
Plus its one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned.
ST170 seats are firm but comfortable but see if you can hunt out one with Xenons and Climate.
Mr2Mike said:
Both crap cars. You have ruled out better alternatives for no good reason. e.g. Clio 172 will be quicker, handle better and have better economy.
It's smaller and not reliable and parts costs a fortune but yes it's faster. 170 for me parts for fords aren't to dear bar clutch for these. The getrag box is solid and the styling is very subtle. It's not everyone's cup of tea but a 5dr is handy if u want the extra doors.
You have to deal with fair few what car geeks who read it was underpowered and yes it is was nearly 2 seconds slower the type r ep3 to 60.
They are also better spec normally and they are much cheaper to insure as the type r driver did a lot of off road driving.
It's chassis is seriously sorted it will do 70mph in second. A lot of running gear was shared with the rs and it has 3.5 tn transit brake callipers on the front! And rs rear 280mm disc and callipers.
As for the Toyota never tried one.
I did 55k in my 170 and loved wish I never sold it.
I recently bought a Corolla T-Sport. I only drove it a few hundred miles home before I pulled it apart and put the engine into an MR2. I quite liked it, seemed decent on fuel and went quite well (although goes better in an MR2). Don't be fooled into thinking the 6th gear means economical motorway cruising as it's quite short.
My only criticism of the 2ZZ engine is it's too peaky. You really have to be in the mood to get the best out of it and it's all over a bit quick. It only gets interesting above 6000rpm. Great for a track day, pointless for a commute. You'll probably never get near the powerband going to work. It suits the MR2, maybe not the Corolla. I rather my hot hatches with a turbo personally.
My only criticism of the 2ZZ engine is it's too peaky. You really have to be in the mood to get the best out of it and it's all over a bit quick. It only gets interesting above 6000rpm. Great for a track day, pointless for a commute. You'll probably never get near the powerband going to work. It suits the MR2, maybe not the Corolla. I rather my hot hatches with a turbo personally.
I bought the wife a 2005 facelift t sport 2 year ago. she had it just 4 months.
nice to look at compared to earlier models being lower etc, and interior better.
However pathetic power band, was annoying.
Loads of faults, all common if you search the net.
Seat position pin broke.
creaking from steering column.
It was only 38k miles too
Not something I would recommend
nice to look at compared to earlier models being lower etc, and interior better.
However pathetic power band, was annoying.
Loads of faults, all common if you search the net.
Seat position pin broke.
creaking from steering column.
It was only 38k miles too
Not something I would recommend
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