My Barge has been Sunk!
Discussion
Three months ago I bought a 2001 E39 530i SE, manual, full history, 53,000 miles, (It was on the Best Smoker Barges thread). I travelled from North Wales to Horsham to pick it up. I am very pleased with it, it 's lovely to drive and does an average of 32mpg!
The car was advertised for £3,000, and I paid £2,500.
Local indy gave it the once over and pronounced it A1 - one of the best he's seen.
Last Tuesday, the car was parked in a residential street and somebody reversed into it, caving in the near side wing and passenger door. Estimate for repair from body shop is £1,750.
Initially, the other party's insurance company wanted to write the car off and pay me £1,750. I refused, and they have now offered me £1,925 plus I can keep the car (roughly £575 salvage cost to buy the car back, so total £2,500 cost to them).
The problem is that the car will then be a cat D write-off. I think that this will only matter if I sell the car in the future, but by then it'll be worth peanuts anyway, unless E39's acquire classic status!
I'm a bit unsure as to what to do. I like the car and would like to keep it, but would the cat D status have any other consequences? On insurance premiums for instance?
Anybody care to give an opinion on my best course of action - an impartial view is what I need!
Thanks.
The car was advertised for £3,000, and I paid £2,500.
Local indy gave it the once over and pronounced it A1 - one of the best he's seen.
Last Tuesday, the car was parked in a residential street and somebody reversed into it, caving in the near side wing and passenger door. Estimate for repair from body shop is £1,750.
Initially, the other party's insurance company wanted to write the car off and pay me £1,750. I refused, and they have now offered me £1,925 plus I can keep the car (roughly £575 salvage cost to buy the car back, so total £2,500 cost to them).
The problem is that the car will then be a cat D write-off. I think that this will only matter if I sell the car in the future, but by then it'll be worth peanuts anyway, unless E39's acquire classic status!
I'm a bit unsure as to what to do. I like the car and would like to keep it, but would the cat D status have any other consequences? On insurance premiums for instance?
Anybody care to give an opinion on my best course of action - an impartial view is what I need!
Thanks.
How much will it cost to fix?
If, for example, £1k to fix and the insurers have given you £2k (and I assume you don't pay extra to have the car) then you're £1k in pocket! That will more than pay for any difference in price when selling due to it being a write-off.
Make sure you keep all pics/docs of damage so when you sell, the buyer will know the damage wasn't major (I am assuming it's minor damage? nothing structural etc.?).
EDIT - just read your quote if £1750 to fix, so you're only £250 in pocket. Is it worth it? Only you can answer. Can you fix "on the cheap", e.g. get door from salvage and have sprayed etc.?
Personally, I would check asking prices for other examples similar to yours and try and get a better offer as you're not being put back in the position you were before the accident.
If, for example, £1k to fix and the insurers have given you £2k (and I assume you don't pay extra to have the car) then you're £1k in pocket! That will more than pay for any difference in price when selling due to it being a write-off.
Make sure you keep all pics/docs of damage so when you sell, the buyer will know the damage wasn't major (I am assuming it's minor damage? nothing structural etc.?).
EDIT - just read your quote if £1750 to fix, so you're only £250 in pocket. Is it worth it? Only you can answer. Can you fix "on the cheap", e.g. get door from salvage and have sprayed etc.?
Personally, I would check asking prices for other examples similar to yours and try and get a better offer as you're not being put back in the position you were before the accident.
Edited by Dracoro on Wednesday 18th June 09:46
The future value of the car is irrelevant if you've pocketed the insurer's shilling, you have already been "given" that value so to get it twice would be perhaps greedy. Ok you're £500 down but you still have the car.
But I reckon a door from a breaker and lack of insurance involvement will reduce the repair cost considerably, I did similar damage to my 9-5 Aero estate and fixed it for about £500 including the replacement door.
If you can do similar the car will only owe you about a grand, and still be a 50k mile peach. A Cat D marker (take photos) will be largely irrelevant when it comes to resale, at this price point. Lots of insurers won't care either.
Sounds like a screaming deal to me!
But I reckon a door from a breaker and lack of insurance involvement will reduce the repair cost considerably, I did similar damage to my 9-5 Aero estate and fixed it for about £500 including the replacement door.
If you can do similar the car will only owe you about a grand, and still be a 50k mile peach. A Cat D marker (take photos) will be largely irrelevant when it comes to resale, at this price point. Lots of insurers won't care either.
Sounds like a screaming deal to me!
Very sorry you're in this position, as all nice 530i manuals need to be preserved.
Definitely get it properly repaired and sod teh Cat D, it can't be helped.
Do take lots of photos of the "before" damage and preferably of what it looks like with the wing and door taken off, when it's at the body shop.
Lots of people are happy to buy cars which have been Cat D'd purely due to their low capital values, but we do like to have proper evidence of what's happened to them, and who repaired them.
And in any case I hope you will be keeping the car for a few years. Tidy, fully-functioning manual petrol E39s are at the bottom of the depreciation curve now. Four or five years from now any reduction in value from it being a Cat D, from the starting price you paid for it, will be trivial.
Definitely get it properly repaired and sod teh Cat D, it can't be helped.
Do take lots of photos of the "before" damage and preferably of what it looks like with the wing and door taken off, when it's at the body shop.
Lots of people are happy to buy cars which have been Cat D'd purely due to their low capital values, but we do like to have proper evidence of what's happened to them, and who repaired them.
And in any case I hope you will be keeping the car for a few years. Tidy, fully-functioning manual petrol E39s are at the bottom of the depreciation curve now. Four or five years from now any reduction in value from it being a Cat D, from the starting price you paid for it, will be trivial.
Lowtimer said:
Very sorry you're in this position, as all nice 530i manuals need to be preserved.
Definitely get it properly repaired and sod teh Cat D, it can't be helped.
Do take lots of photos of the "before" damage and preferably of what it looks like with the wing and door taken off, when it's at the body shop.
Lots of people are happy to buy cars which have been Cat D'd purely due to their low capital values, but we do like to have proper evidence of what's happened to them, and who repaired them.
And in any case I hope you will be keeping the car for a few years. Tidy, fully-functioning manual petrol E39s are at the bottom of the depreciation curve now. Four or five years from now any reduction in value from it being a Cat D, from the starting price you paid for it, will be trivial.
I'm smitten with the E39; I also have an E61;the E39 knocks it into a cocked hat!Definitely get it properly repaired and sod teh Cat D, it can't be helped.
Do take lots of photos of the "before" damage and preferably of what it looks like with the wing and door taken off, when it's at the body shop.
Lots of people are happy to buy cars which have been Cat D'd purely due to their low capital values, but we do like to have proper evidence of what's happened to them, and who repaired them.
And in any case I hope you will be keeping the car for a few years. Tidy, fully-functioning manual petrol E39s are at the bottom of the depreciation curve now. Four or five years from now any reduction in value from it being a Cat D, from the starting price you paid for it, will be trivial.
I'll take loads of photos. I know the body shop quite well (not from frequent accidents!) so I know they'll help all they can.
I think I'll speak to the insurers and see if I can squeeze some more out of them.
Good for you.
I'm on my third: the first two I ran for 100,000 miles each as 'conventional' used cars, then I went to an E91, which was very rational, but I never really connected with it emotionally. I wanted a long term 530i, manual, touring, and I wanted it on super-comfy SE suspension and squidgy 225/55 16 tyres, so I can glide serenely and quietly across the increasingly horrible roads I have to cope with in some parts of Yorkshire.
So having duly got my 100,000 miles out of the E91 I chopped it in against something new for the missus and bought another E39. My new one is actually the oldest one I've had, a January 2000, fundamentally very solid but with a lot of superficial wear and tear, minor scrapes and parking dings from its 14 years and 136,000 miles, having in later years having toted round a lot of dogs and small children rather than being mainly a driver-only executive express as so many E39s (including mine) did when they were new.
While fundamentally straight and honest it was not cosmetically the best E39 in the world but the 530i Touring is pretty hard to find now in manual form so I've taken this one on as a long term rolling restoration project. Mechanically everything is now done and she is driving exactly like a new one. The previous owner had recently seen to the cooling system and brakes, in a proper way. I have had a clutch and flywheel and pretty much all new suspension, bushes, struts, rear dampers, a few ball joints, a new set of premium tyres etc. Over £3K in parts alone which most people would regard as insanity on an old 5, but I am intending to run her indefinitely so what the hell. Also did the rocker cover gasket and the whole of the breather system, which has helped the (typically heavy on the M54) oil consumption. I think the oil rings were sticking a bit too, probably from relative lack of use over the winter, but a good few thousand miles touring over Easter seems to have un-stuck them and I am now back to around 1500 mile / litre which is perfectly ok.
Bodywise I have almost finished doing some purely superficial blisters and scabby bits to prevent rust getting a hold. That will hold things until I can get a proper glass-out respray done in a year or so.
Next phase will be some work on the interior. Probably ought to do a thread for it at some stage.
I'm on my third: the first two I ran for 100,000 miles each as 'conventional' used cars, then I went to an E91, which was very rational, but I never really connected with it emotionally. I wanted a long term 530i, manual, touring, and I wanted it on super-comfy SE suspension and squidgy 225/55 16 tyres, so I can glide serenely and quietly across the increasingly horrible roads I have to cope with in some parts of Yorkshire.
So having duly got my 100,000 miles out of the E91 I chopped it in against something new for the missus and bought another E39. My new one is actually the oldest one I've had, a January 2000, fundamentally very solid but with a lot of superficial wear and tear, minor scrapes and parking dings from its 14 years and 136,000 miles, having in later years having toted round a lot of dogs and small children rather than being mainly a driver-only executive express as so many E39s (including mine) did when they were new.
While fundamentally straight and honest it was not cosmetically the best E39 in the world but the 530i Touring is pretty hard to find now in manual form so I've taken this one on as a long term rolling restoration project. Mechanically everything is now done and she is driving exactly like a new one. The previous owner had recently seen to the cooling system and brakes, in a proper way. I have had a clutch and flywheel and pretty much all new suspension, bushes, struts, rear dampers, a few ball joints, a new set of premium tyres etc. Over £3K in parts alone which most people would regard as insanity on an old 5, but I am intending to run her indefinitely so what the hell. Also did the rocker cover gasket and the whole of the breather system, which has helped the (typically heavy on the M54) oil consumption. I think the oil rings were sticking a bit too, probably from relative lack of use over the winter, but a good few thousand miles touring over Easter seems to have un-stuck them and I am now back to around 1500 mile / litre which is perfectly ok.
Bodywise I have almost finished doing some purely superficial blisters and scabby bits to prevent rust getting a hold. That will hold things until I can get a proper glass-out respray done in a year or so.
Next phase will be some work on the interior. Probably ought to do a thread for it at some stage.
Edited by Lowtimer on Wednesday 18th June 11:47
I was pretty much in the same situation with our Jeep a couple of years ago. I bought the car, took the pay out and fixed it using an independent and some used parts (bumper skin etc). Was £2.5k in pocket in the end.
Haven't seen any downside yet but then we still have the car. Insurance is no different etc.
I seem to remember that to tax online we needed to get the VIC test done but we had 12 months before we did that anyway.
I think for resale what everyone else has said is true - keep the records of the repairs and request a copy of the engineers write off report from the insurers to keep in the file.
I wouldn't discount a Cat D car in the future knowing what I know now.
Haven't seen any downside yet but then we still have the car. Insurance is no different etc.
I seem to remember that to tax online we needed to get the VIC test done but we had 12 months before we did that anyway.
I think for resale what everyone else has said is true - keep the records of the repairs and request a copy of the engineers write off report from the insurers to keep in the file.
I wouldn't discount a Cat D car in the future knowing what I know now.
Maybe buy the car back whilst looking on Ebay, etc regularly to find the same colour wing and door then get it fitted cheap as you can?
Just out of curiosity do you just write or ring your insurer stating that you would like to buy the car and they come back with a price to buy it back?
Hope it works out it's a bad feeling when something like this happens.
Just out of curiosity do you just write or ring your insurer stating that you would like to buy the car and they come back with a price to buy it back?
Hope it works out it's a bad feeling when something like this happens.
I'm not sure but that salvage cost seems quite high? I bought my car back for £100 (it was worth £1500), though it was a CAT B which might have a bearing?
I think what you have to think about is would you buy your car if it was a Cat D? Or alternatively, do you intend to sell it or run it into the ground?
I think what you have to think about is would you buy your car if it was a Cat D? Or alternatively, do you intend to sell it or run it into the ground?
The thing that made the difference for me was my Jeep was low mileage and I had 100% confidence in the condition of everything that hadn't been damaged.
To repair the car I knew and come out with a pocket full of cash made the deal work for me better than trying to find an equivalent replacement.
As someone has mentioned: do assume that the salvage value and pre accident value are negotiable if you think you can substantiate higher values.
Apart from reduced future resale value which is marginal at the bottom of the market or for rare cars (e.g. look at the number of Cat D VX220's) then I see no downsides to Cat D.
To repair the car I knew and come out with a pocket full of cash made the deal work for me better than trying to find an equivalent replacement.
As someone has mentioned: do assume that the salvage value and pre accident value are negotiable if you think you can substantiate higher values.
Apart from reduced future resale value which is marginal at the bottom of the market or for rare cars (e.g. look at the number of Cat D VX220's) then I see no downsides to Cat D.
thecremeegg said:
I think what you have to think about is would you buy your car if it was a Cat D? Or alternatively, do you intend to sell it or run it into the ground?
It all depends on why it's Cat D though, doesn't it? Would you really not buy a tidy £2500 Porsche 944 which was Cat D only because someone had broken the rear window? (It is generally a write-off for most insurers given the factory replacement cost, but in reality you can buy one off a scrapper and fit it for £150). Buy it back and get it fixed.
If the insurance quote repair price is £1750, it will probably cost you less than half that to get it repaired (as an example, my mates Volvo V70 has been written off after an argument with a van. Insurance repairs = £3250, he has bought it back and repairs are £650)
£525 sounds a lot to buy back. The Volvo cited above was £120 to buy back, plus a £50 'admin' fee.
If the insurance quote repair price is £1750, it will probably cost you less than half that to get it repaired (as an example, my mates Volvo V70 has been written off after an argument with a van. Insurance repairs = £3250, he has bought it back and repairs are £650)
£525 sounds a lot to buy back. The Volvo cited above was £120 to buy back, plus a £50 'admin' fee.
You'd be nuts not to buy it back IMO - barge money it may be but how infrequently do such good ones come around? Cat D makes no odds, it's just more reason to spend the next decade or two running it into the ground.
Fix it cheap and cheerfully with salvaged parts and bargain hunting, and maybe pocket a bit of cash on the way.
Fix it cheap and cheerfully with salvaged parts and bargain hunting, and maybe pocket a bit of cash on the way.
boyse7en said:
One thing to bear in mind is that you will probably have to do a VIC check to get it back on the road. This checks the identification of the vehicle, not the quality of repairs done. I had to go to a VOSA testing centre to do mine and it was about £40.
Only on Cat CCat D, repair an drive.
Oh an based on the thread title, there needs to be more battleships puns.
aka_kerrly said:
boyse7en said:
One thing to bear in mind is that you will probably have to do a VIC check to get it back on the road. This checks the identification of the vehicle, not the quality of repairs done. I had to go to a VOSA testing centre to do mine and it was about £40.
Only on Cat CCat D, repair an drive.
Oh an based on the thread title, there needs to be more battleships puns.
Take pics of it now so it will help when selling on so a buyer can see its just had minor ish damage and not been barrel rolled.
£1925 to you plus you keep the car means £575 is tied up in the car. I reckon you could break it/sell it on for more as is so you'd be up on the deal.
But if it see me id want about £3k off the insurer and walk away, less hassle.
£1925 to you plus you keep the car means £575 is tied up in the car. I reckon you could break it/sell it on for more as is so you'd be up on the deal.
But if it see me id want about £3k off the insurer and walk away, less hassle.
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