Buying a Daily and Summer "Classic" Car
Discussion
After recently purchasing a house I have realised certainly for the next 3 - 4 years I won't be able to afford a new car. My Abarth 500 Esseesse is 4 years old which I've had from new and I actually planned to change it this year. Not bored with the car, its nippy, very rare, great stereo, 41 mpg combined so can't complain. But I've had a thought of maybe selling it in 6 - 12 months, and assuming I got around 9k for it I'd split the costs 50:50.
For the daily I thought about something economical, nippy and rare, but not an out and out sports car. I thought about a 9N GT / 9N3 TDI Polo 1.9 TDI (rare version with the 130bhp engine) but remembered you can buy a later Audi A2 1.4 TDI (90 bhp) model for around 4.5k - not a quick as the Polo, but would hold it's value better and a bit of a cooler car (I've always liked the look of them).
For the summer car I narrowed down choices to a Mk1 / Mk2 Golf GTI or 205 GTI (4.5k gets you a pretty decent example) and am swaying towards the Mk1 GTI. I'd be looking for something completely standard (or as close to as possible) and would look after it, probably driving it Fri / Sat / Sun and SORN it 6 months in the garage during autumn / winter. People may mention other choices of car for the money but not looking for anything too flash or fancy - I have just loved all 3 of these cars and would be happy owning any, particularly the Mk1.
Now the cons are two sets of insurance, road tax, additional maintenance costs, also space taken up in my garage. Pros are I would have a more economical daily and a pretty special car to use in the summer. Limited mileage on the Golf would keep the insurance / tax costs down too. Life is too short and a Mk1 GTI is one of many cars I'd like to own (but probably will never get the chance to).
Am I mad?!
For the daily I thought about something economical, nippy and rare, but not an out and out sports car. I thought about a 9N GT / 9N3 TDI Polo 1.9 TDI (rare version with the 130bhp engine) but remembered you can buy a later Audi A2 1.4 TDI (90 bhp) model for around 4.5k - not a quick as the Polo, but would hold it's value better and a bit of a cooler car (I've always liked the look of them).
For the summer car I narrowed down choices to a Mk1 / Mk2 Golf GTI or 205 GTI (4.5k gets you a pretty decent example) and am swaying towards the Mk1 GTI. I'd be looking for something completely standard (or as close to as possible) and would look after it, probably driving it Fri / Sat / Sun and SORN it 6 months in the garage during autumn / winter. People may mention other choices of car for the money but not looking for anything too flash or fancy - I have just loved all 3 of these cars and would be happy owning any, particularly the Mk1.
Now the cons are two sets of insurance, road tax, additional maintenance costs, also space taken up in my garage. Pros are I would have a more economical daily and a pretty special car to use in the summer. Limited mileage on the Golf would keep the insurance / tax costs down too. Life is too short and a Mk1 GTI is one of many cars I'd like to own (but probably will never get the chance to).
Am I mad?!
No, this is exactly the car ownership model I use. It actually gives a certain freedom to have a "boring" car dedicated for all the things you'd never want to subject your summer car to, like supermarket parking and salty roads. Plus you'll not get bored as it will always feel special after being in your daily hack all week
While it will cost you more in terms of (classic) insurance and maintenance, the latter can be done in your own time as you're not dependent on the car. Therefore parts can possibly be sourced more cheaply if you can put up with longer delivery times, etc.
And anytime you encounter another owner on the road you get to wave at each other. As sad and geeky as that sounds, it always gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside so I don't care! It doesn't really work the same with a Mk6 Golf I've found
If you have the space then do it, and even if it doesn't work out for you a decent Golf or 205 GTi will still be worth the same as what you paid for it. Plus you'll always get extra man points in the pub for being able to say you owned a 205 GTi or its like at one stage
While it will cost you more in terms of (classic) insurance and maintenance, the latter can be done in your own time as you're not dependent on the car. Therefore parts can possibly be sourced more cheaply if you can put up with longer delivery times, etc.
And anytime you encounter another owner on the road you get to wave at each other. As sad and geeky as that sounds, it always gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside so I don't care! It doesn't really work the same with a Mk6 Golf I've found
If you have the space then do it, and even if it doesn't work out for you a decent Golf or 205 GTi will still be worth the same as what you paid for it. Plus you'll always get extra man points in the pub for being able to say you owned a 205 GTi or its like at one stage
Edited by Leins on Wednesday 18th June 14:00
Depends what you want from your summer car:
a) Something that looks cool and retro (Mk1)
b) Something that looks cool, retro and is fun to drive (Mk2)
Seeking out a completely standard car of this age is no easy task, and they tend to be the most expensive too. In Mk1 terms, you are probably looking at Clipper Cabrios, as standard Mk1 GTi's in good, drive away condition tend to fetch more than 5k, but the cabbys tend to be a bit cheaper.
A Mk2 will be faster, better to drive and also gives you a lot more breathing room in your budget. With 5k all but the most coveted models will be available, so you've your choice of 8v or 16v (it's a no brainer there, 16v everytime). There's also a fair chunk of engine swapped options- 2.0 16v ABFs (from a Mk3) or 2.8 VR6's also from a Mk3.
I've bought a few Mk2's now and here's what I've learnt:
1) Rust. Standard or modified, both will have rust. Key areas like sills, fuel filler area, battery tray are favorite spots for it- just because it's standard and looks "mint" doesn't mean to say it's not got a surprise hidden for you. Sure, it can be repaired normally, but you want the best shell you can find really. Wheels/suspension/bumpers/arches are dead easy to swap out on these.
2) Receipts. FSH is going to be rare and priced accordingly, you want to find a big wad of receipts for consumables and servicing. The more, the better. It'll also give you a chance to see if you can verify the mileage.
3) ALWAYS buy a small bumper model. Big bumpers and their kits trap water everywhere, and all the ones I have seen that were born this way have bad rust issues along the sills. It's cheaper to convert a small bumper to big than buy a big and then find out you have some major spending to do on welding.
These are old cars now, make no mistake you will need to get the tools out every now and then and other annoying little niggles will appear over time, it's best to try and keep on top of it rather than let it mount up.
Whatever you get, it will more than likely hold or increase in value, so long as you buy a good one and look after it. Plenty of reading material and buyers guides out there, get stuck in and go and view some, it's the best way to get a feel of what you can get for your budget.
a) Something that looks cool and retro (Mk1)
b) Something that looks cool, retro and is fun to drive (Mk2)
Seeking out a completely standard car of this age is no easy task, and they tend to be the most expensive too. In Mk1 terms, you are probably looking at Clipper Cabrios, as standard Mk1 GTi's in good, drive away condition tend to fetch more than 5k, but the cabbys tend to be a bit cheaper.
A Mk2 will be faster, better to drive and also gives you a lot more breathing room in your budget. With 5k all but the most coveted models will be available, so you've your choice of 8v or 16v (it's a no brainer there, 16v everytime). There's also a fair chunk of engine swapped options- 2.0 16v ABFs (from a Mk3) or 2.8 VR6's also from a Mk3.
I've bought a few Mk2's now and here's what I've learnt:
1) Rust. Standard or modified, both will have rust. Key areas like sills, fuel filler area, battery tray are favorite spots for it- just because it's standard and looks "mint" doesn't mean to say it's not got a surprise hidden for you. Sure, it can be repaired normally, but you want the best shell you can find really. Wheels/suspension/bumpers/arches are dead easy to swap out on these.
2) Receipts. FSH is going to be rare and priced accordingly, you want to find a big wad of receipts for consumables and servicing. The more, the better. It'll also give you a chance to see if you can verify the mileage.
3) ALWAYS buy a small bumper model. Big bumpers and their kits trap water everywhere, and all the ones I have seen that were born this way have bad rust issues along the sills. It's cheaper to convert a small bumper to big than buy a big and then find out you have some major spending to do on welding.
These are old cars now, make no mistake you will need to get the tools out every now and then and other annoying little niggles will appear over time, it's best to try and keep on top of it rather than let it mount up.
Whatever you get, it will more than likely hold or increase in value, so long as you buy a good one and look after it. Plenty of reading material and buyers guides out there, get stuck in and go and view some, it's the best way to get a feel of what you can get for your budget.
The Mk2 is much more refined than a Mk1 as a 'daily'. IMO buy smart, spend a bit more and get a good 16v(£3-4k), treat it well and it will be always be an appreciating asset. Here's my 'valver' which I ran for a year as a 'daily', just like you're planning. It never missed a beat and was a nice drive in all situations. Insurance was only £150 a year on a classic car 'agreed value' policy at 5kmiles per year.
Get over to http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk for a mine of knowledge and opinion.
Get over to http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk for a mine of knowledge and opinion.
kmpowell said:
The Mk2 is much more refined than a Mk1 as a 'daily'. IMO buy smart, spend a bit more and get a good 16v(£3-4k), treat it well and it will be always be an appreciating asset. Here's my 'valver' which I ran for a year as a 'daily', just like you're planning. It never missed a beat and was a nice drive in all situations. Insurance was only £150 a year on a classic car 'agreed value' policy at 5kmiles per year.
Get over to http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk for a mine of knowledge and opinion.
Now that looks just spot on, love that. There seems to be split opinion on whether the Mk1 or Mk2 is better or fun to drive. Would I be right in assuming the 205 would have the edge over both? A Mk2 GTI would certainly be the best ownership prospect, especially if using it more than a few days a week.Get over to http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk for a mine of knowledge and opinion.
I guess I need to read all the online guides and decide whether to take the plunge.
Bennet said:
£4500 would get you a very nice mk1 MR2, if you're willing to wait for a good one.
Or a nice mk3 MR2!The last few years I ran one nice car for everything, but have come to the conclusion than a she/daily and a weekend car is the way forward. When you're stuck in traffic it doesn't matter if you are in a sports car or a supermini. I also like that at my office the sports cars/classics get driven to work on sunny Fridays.
This is what I am contemplating OP, will be interested in responses on this thread.
I am thinking of getting rid of my current (only) car; a Clio 200 cup for a Fiat 500 pop (off the missus) and an S1 Elise.
As you have said, money will be saved on fuel for daily duties. Tax and insurance on the cars I have mentioned are cheaper than the Clio too. Not sure what your man maths would come out at, but limited mileage on the weekend car should bring it down.
The 'classic' weekend cars wont depreciate if you find it not what you expected and or doesn't get the use as first thought.
Keen to find out what other pitfalls there are of running two cars, the only main one I can see is two sets of servicing/MOT's. Maintenance on the Elise isn't too bad as I ran one as a daily for two years, so I know what I am letting myself in for.
One last thing is, the way I have justified to myself the cost of the weekend car is not a cost of motoring in the normal sense but the cost of my hobby.
I am thinking of getting rid of my current (only) car; a Clio 200 cup for a Fiat 500 pop (off the missus) and an S1 Elise.
As you have said, money will be saved on fuel for daily duties. Tax and insurance on the cars I have mentioned are cheaper than the Clio too. Not sure what your man maths would come out at, but limited mileage on the weekend car should bring it down.
The 'classic' weekend cars wont depreciate if you find it not what you expected and or doesn't get the use as first thought.
Keen to find out what other pitfalls there are of running two cars, the only main one I can see is two sets of servicing/MOT's. Maintenance on the Elise isn't too bad as I ran one as a daily for two years, so I know what I am letting myself in for.
One last thing is, the way I have justified to myself the cost of the weekend car is not a cost of motoring in the normal sense but the cost of my hobby.
You're not mad, do it!
Only issue I can see is don't sorn the summer classic car for six months of the year! Older cars need to be used, if you let them sit things perish and go wrong. If you use them regularly you won't find this issue.
Plus there's nothing more enjoyable enjoying a cool, sunny autumn evening in a classic car.
Only issue I can see is don't sorn the summer classic car for six months of the year! Older cars need to be used, if you let them sit things perish and go wrong. If you use them regularly you won't find this issue.
Plus there's nothing more enjoyable enjoying a cool, sunny autumn evening in a classic car.
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