Rogue trader has taken £7000 from my mother - what to do?
Discussion
In 2012 I looked around for a gardening services company to do some work at my elderly mother's house.
I found a company with good reviews in the Checkatrade scheme and from what I could see they looked professional and the type of company which would do a good job, so I recommended them to my mother with the usual warnings that she should get an estimate and not pay up front etc. etc.
I've only just found out that she did employ them to do a garden clearance at the beginning of 2012, for which they didn't supply an estimate or invoice and managed to fleece her out of £5000 in cash for a job which I would estimate would be £1000-£1200 tops.
They also 'borrowed' a set of keys which give them access to her garden and promised to be back during the year to maintain the garden regularly, which they haven't done. Despite requests by her to return the keys, they still have them.
To add insult to injury, they came back at the end of 2012 and took another £1900 off her to carry out more work they haven't done. At least she made that payment with a cheque, but still no estimate or receipt was forthcoming, so she has nothing in writing from them at all.
Leaving aside the fact that she hasn't gone about this in the best way, I now would like to rectify matters in the best way possible but at the same time avoiding any stress or further worry for her.
I'd like to nail their goolies to a tree, or at the very least get the law involved, but she is worried that if I do anything which might antagonise them, they will harass her. I fully understand this but I feel some sort of justice must be done otherwise these crooks will carry on fleecing old ladies out of their life savings.
What would you do in this situation?
I found a company with good reviews in the Checkatrade scheme and from what I could see they looked professional and the type of company which would do a good job, so I recommended them to my mother with the usual warnings that she should get an estimate and not pay up front etc. etc.
I've only just found out that she did employ them to do a garden clearance at the beginning of 2012, for which they didn't supply an estimate or invoice and managed to fleece her out of £5000 in cash for a job which I would estimate would be £1000-£1200 tops.
They also 'borrowed' a set of keys which give them access to her garden and promised to be back during the year to maintain the garden regularly, which they haven't done. Despite requests by her to return the keys, they still have them.
To add insult to injury, they came back at the end of 2012 and took another £1900 off her to carry out more work they haven't done. At least she made that payment with a cheque, but still no estimate or receipt was forthcoming, so she has nothing in writing from them at all.
Leaving aside the fact that she hasn't gone about this in the best way, I now would like to rectify matters in the best way possible but at the same time avoiding any stress or further worry for her.
I'd like to nail their goolies to a tree, or at the very least get the law involved, but she is worried that if I do anything which might antagonise them, they will harass her. I fully understand this but I feel some sort of justice must be done otherwise these crooks will carry on fleecing old ladies out of their life savings.
What would you do in this situation?
I would presume that any attempt to recover your money by 'proper' channels will fail.
This sounds a bit like pub based bulls
t but I swear it's true... I know a guy who lost money in a similar way. When he approached the police, a nice copper (could have been rent-a-cop or similar) spoke to him at length and the upshot of it all was that the law wouldn't offer any protection, but if you've got some rugby player shaped mates and a big stick, you might have some luck.
Depends on your moral compass and, as I said in another thread, how you feel about rules.
Simon.
This sounds a bit like pub based bulls
t but I swear it's true... I know a guy who lost money in a similar way. When he approached the police, a nice copper (could have been rent-a-cop or similar) spoke to him at length and the upshot of it all was that the law wouldn't offer any protection, but if you've got some rugby player shaped mates and a big stick, you might have some luck.Depends on your moral compass and, as I said in another thread, how you feel about rules.
Simon.
FurtiveFreddy said:
They also 'borrowed' a set of keys which give them access to her garden and promised to be back during the year to maintain the garden regularly, which they haven't done. Despite requests by her to return the keys, they still have them.
Change the locks.FurtiveFreddy said:
I'd like to ... at the very least get the law involved
Being expensive and poor value isn't actually illegal. What laws are you suggesting they've broken?Edited by TooMany2cvs on Sunday 22 June 14:59
FurtiveFreddy said:
Is fraud not a crime these days?
Of course it is.But _have_ they actually defrauded her?
She got them to carry out some work. They carried out the work. Not necessarily well, and certainly not good value - but they did it. She paid them for it.
She then asked them to do ongoing maintenance, but you don't mention any payment. They still have the keys. OK, change the locks. Today. Tomorrow.
She then asked them to do more work, for which she paid them, but you say they didn't do? You'd have to prove deliberate intention to charge for work they were never intending to carry out.
Is there any proof at all, other than one paid cheque, of any of this?
How far is she willing to go with any prosecution - all the way to giving evidence in court?
D'you see my point here? You've got a real uphill battle to _prove_ criminal fraud beyond reasonable doubt. £6k is not a small amount of money, but does your mother REALLY need the hassle of attempting to get justice, which quite probably won't even get it back?
What would I do?
We'll start with the obvious of what I wouldn't do.
I wouldn't set a complete stranger on my elderly mother and leave them to it (even if other complete strangers said it was ok).
I wouldn't let them cheat her twice.
I wouldn't wait two years to find out she been cheated, TWICE.
You know all this of course, I'm just having a recap to make sure you've learned from it.
Now for what you mustn't do.
Anything illegal.
Anything stupid.
Threaten to do anything you are not 100% commited to doing.
And finally, what you must do next.
Say goodbye to a significant chunk of inheritance.
Change the locks.
Install security.
Make sure they don't come back, and if they do, make sure it's YOU that deals with them.
LOOK AFTER YOUR MUM!
We'll start with the obvious of what I wouldn't do.
I wouldn't set a complete stranger on my elderly mother and leave them to it (even if other complete strangers said it was ok).
I wouldn't let them cheat her twice.
I wouldn't wait two years to find out she been cheated, TWICE.
You know all this of course, I'm just having a recap to make sure you've learned from it.
Now for what you mustn't do.
Anything illegal.
Anything stupid.
Threaten to do anything you are not 100% commited to doing.
And finally, what you must do next.
Say goodbye to a significant chunk of inheritance.
Change the locks.
Install security.
Make sure they don't come back, and if they do, make sure it's YOU that deals with them.
LOOK AFTER YOUR MUM!
TooMany2cvs said:
Of course it is.
But _have_ they actually defrauded her?
She got them to carry out some work. They carried out the work. Not necessarily well, and certainly not good value - but they did it. She paid them for it.
She then asked them to do ongoing maintenance, but you don't mention any payment.
According to her, about £400 of the £5k was for that. But of course it's her word against theirs.But _have_ they actually defrauded her?
She got them to carry out some work. They carried out the work. Not necessarily well, and certainly not good value - but they did it. She paid them for it.
She then asked them to do ongoing maintenance, but you don't mention any payment.
They still have the keys. OK, change the locks. Today. Tomorrow.
She then asked them to do more work, for which she paid them, but you say they didn't do? You'd have to prove deliberate intention to charge for work they were never intending to carry out.
Is there any proof at all, other than one paid cheque, of any of this?
How far is she willing to go with any prosecution - all the way to giving evidence in court?
D'you see my point here? You've got a real uphill battle to _prove_ criminal fraud beyond reasonable doubt. £6k is not a small amount of money, but does your mother REALLY need the hassle of attempting to get justice, which quite probably won't even get it back?
The reason to post here was just to get some other opinions or ideas other than the obvious.
johnny fotze said:
What would I do?
We'll start with the obvious of what I wouldn't do.
I wouldn't set a complete stranger on my elderly mother and leave them to it (even if other complete strangers said it was ok).
I wouldn't let them cheat her twice.
I wouldn't wait two years to find out she been cheated, TWICE.
You know all this of course, I'm just having a recap to make sure you've learned from it.
Now for what you mustn't do.
Anything illegal.
Anything stupid.
Threaten to do anything you are not 100% commited to doing.
And finally, what you must do next.
Say goodbye to a significant chunk of inheritance.
Change the locks.
Install security.
Make sure they don't come back, and if they do, make sure it's YOU that deals with them.
LOOK AFTER YOUR MUM!
Yes, all good advice and things will be changing significantly to make sure nothing like this happens again.We'll start with the obvious of what I wouldn't do.
I wouldn't set a complete stranger on my elderly mother and leave them to it (even if other complete strangers said it was ok).
I wouldn't let them cheat her twice.
I wouldn't wait two years to find out she been cheated, TWICE.
You know all this of course, I'm just having a recap to make sure you've learned from it.
Now for what you mustn't do.
Anything illegal.
Anything stupid.
Threaten to do anything you are not 100% commited to doing.
And finally, what you must do next.
Say goodbye to a significant chunk of inheritance.
Change the locks.
Install security.
Make sure they don't come back, and if they do, make sure it's YOU that deals with them.
LOOK AFTER YOUR MUM!
It could be fraud.
The local police "don't" deal with fraud now. It all goes to Action Fraud: http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/
This type could be relevant: http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/node/290
The local police "don't" deal with fraud now. It all goes to Action Fraud: http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/
This type could be relevant: http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/node/290
OP, I would advise you to contact the Trading Standards department at your local authority. Give the council a ring tomorrow morning and have a conversation with a TS officer. In my experience, these are the types of complaints which Trading Standards will be very keen to investigate.
FurtiveFreddy said:
What would you do in this situation?
I'd do everything in my power to make their lives a living hell. But I'd be subtle about it, and avoid anything that would link me to them.Clone the plates on their van, and walk the front plate into as many car parks as you can (while keeping your face shielded from the camera) that have time restrictions.
If they're a tradesman then set them up with as many quotes for as far flung a place as you can, which doesn't exist. (May need some cheapo sim cards here)
Complaints to council, HMRC, and any other agency that you can about their business activities.
Follow them to their jobs, and pop round later and have a word with the people employing them.
I'm sure a weeks holiday well spent with these antics should give them more than enough pain to see you right in the revenge stakes.
Oh, and frozen sausages nailed into their lawn. A PH favourite that one.
Jasandjules said:
Did they do the work?
They took the £1900 on a promise and have done nothing in return.We realise the original £5k is long gone, so that is only background information now.
Scumbags such as these need to be made accountable for their actions. I will do what I can to make their lives a misery, but I'm well aware it's an uphill task.
I'm just looking for suggestions and ideas I may not have thought of myself.
Thanks.
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