Various Chim questions, looking for honest answers.

[TREMAiNE]

Hi Guys!

Sorry for the long post - I want to be as thorough as possible so that your answers are as fully tailored to me and my situation rather than just in general.

I'm currently 21 (22 in August) and I'm desperate for a Chimaera 4.0 - I have been for a while and I'm regularly in the classifieds.
I currently run an RX-8 and I've recently sold my RX-7 (not plucked up the courage to take it out of my PH garage though! )
I have made several posts in GG and the TVR forums over the last 9 months though I never ended up buying one. More recently I considered getting a track car and posted about that in the TD forums - again, it all amounted to nothing.

I received some good news recently and it transpires that I'll be competing in my first race series next year in an E30 325 - so I'm not too fussed about getting a dedicated track car now and as a result, this draws my attention back to where it always is... The Chimaera.

Running an RX-8, I don't see why I couldn't afford to run a Chim - currently, I pay £500 VED and get 16mpg on average, but as someone with no mechanical skill or knowledge whatsoever, I'm still put off by the bad stigma the brand has... so, Chim owners, I ask you:

Realistically, what sort of fuel economy would I see (10mpg or 100mpg - it doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious) in general use - bit of A roads, bit of B roads?

Could I use one as a daily? If I stay living where I am now, a 12 mile round trip commute, if I move back in with my dad a 30 mile round trip commute? My annual mileage changes constantly, it fluctuates between 6-11k per year.

What is the engine/gearbox reliability like in general?

Are there any tell-tale signs of chassis rot - from what I've read you can't really tell unless you removed the body?

Are they as much of a lucky dip as people say? The prices vary so much, does this genuinely reflect condition? How much should I be paying for a Chim 4.0 with 60k miles?

What are likely repair costs - are they expensive? (such as roof, engine/gearbox parts etc).

Are these really best suited to be a weekend car for the nice summer months, or could I feasibly sell the RX-8 and use a Chim as a daily, would the winter weather ruin the car - chassis, roof etc?

Sorry for so many questions. I'm so desperate for one of these, I potentially have around £7,000 but it would have to be my only and that is what puts me off. Man maths is normally easy for me, hence the reason I have the cars I have at a relatively young age... But I consider a Chim to be a whole other level!

[jamescooper47]

Hi There

Get one get one get one!

My wife said to me, buy one while you have the chance and sell when we need something more practical, but until then enjoy it.... she moans alot but worth it.... what a car!

I bought my first in November (had a small accident which wrote the poor girl off), so now on my second, ill try to answer your questions:

• I average about 18-20 mpg around town, on a 3.5 hour journey we managed 28mpg on a 75-80mph trip

• I use her as a daily driver and drives very well - Suspension is not too stiff and plenty of room (I'm 6ft2), plus loads of room in the boot, and behind the seats for luggage. Both my cars roofs have been waterproof (had a small leak in the first by the brake reservoir but cured in minutes)

• Only had 2 small faults - the first car had a corroded wiper park switch - changed in minutes - the second car had a sticky relay - changed in seconds

• Engine and gearbox in both cars have run like a dream

• Chassis rot is quite hard to find above the chassis rails, but having a good look around underneath is enough to ease your concerns. Both my cars were well looked after, and kept clean underneath

• Parts are cheap if you shop around, Most are easily available all over the web through Land Rover dealers, and the various supplier parts to TVR such as Vauxhall, Ford etc. - one tip though for any classic car - Dont cheap out on ignition parts - We had the same problem with our mini and TVR cutting out due to a cheap rotor arms.

• Our first budget was 7000 and bought one for 6 (worn interior, a couple of body scratched and paint chips, high mileage (108,000) etc but drove like a dream, and very solid, She got me hooked. My second cost me 9000 simply for a better interior, less mileage, better carpets, better conditions all round.

Have fun deciding!

TREMAiNE said:

Hi Guys!

Sorry for the long post - I want to be as thorough as possible so that your answers are as fully tailored to me and my situation rather than just in general.

I'm currently 21 (22 in August) and I'm desperate for a Chimaera 4.0 - I have been for a while and I'm regularly in the classifieds.
I currently run an RX-8 and I've recently sold my RX-7 (not plucked up the courage to take it out of my PH garage though! )
I have made several posts in GG and the TVR forums over the last 9 months though I never ended up buying one. More recently I considered getting a track car and posted about that in the TD forums - again, it all amounted to nothing.

I received some good news recently and it transpires that I'll be competing in my first race series next year in an E30 325 - so I'm not too fussed about getting a dedicated track car now and as a result, this draws my attention back to where it always is... The Chimaera.

Running an RX-8, I don't see why I couldn't afford to run a Chim - currently, I pay £500 VED and get 16mpg on average, but as someone with no mechanical skill or knowledge whatsoever, I'm still put off by the bad stigma the brand has... so, Chim owners, I ask you:

Realistically, what sort of fuel economy would I see (10mpg or 100mpg - it doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious) in general use - bit of A roads, bit of B roads?

Could I use one as a daily? If I stay living where I am now, a 12 mile round trip commute, if I move back in with my dad a 30 mile round trip commute? My annual mileage changes constantly, it fluctuates between 6-11k per year.

What is the engine/gearbox reliability like in general?

Are there any tell-tale signs of chassis rot - from what I've read you can't really tell unless you removed the body?

Are they as much of a lucky dip as people say? The prices vary so much, does this genuinely reflect condition? How much should I be paying for a Chim 4.0 with 60k miles?

What are likely repair costs - are they expensive? (such as roof, engine/gearbox parts etc).

Are these really best suited to be a weekend car for the nice summer months, or could I feasibly sell the RX-8 and use a Chim as a daily, would the winter weather ruin the car - chassis, roof etc?

Sorry for so many questions. I'm so desperate for one of these, I potentially have around £7,000 but it would have to be my only and that is what puts me off. Man maths is normally easy for me, hence the reason I have the cars I have at a relatively young age... But I consider a Chim to be a whole other level!

[theoden]

TREMAiNE said:

Hi Guys!

Sorry for the long post - I want to be as thorough as possible so that your answers are as fully tailored to me and my situation rather than just in general.

I'm currently 21 (22 in August) and I'm desperate for a Chimaera 4.0 - I have been for a while and I'm regularly in the classifieds.
I currently run an RX-8 and I've recently sold my RX-7 (not plucked up the courage to take it out of my PH garage though! )
I have made several posts in GG and the TVR forums over the last 9 months though I never ended up buying one. More recently I considered getting a track car and posted about that in the TD forums - again, it all amounted to nothing.

I received some good news recently and it transpires that I'll be competing in my first race series next year in an E30 325 - so I'm not too fussed about getting a dedicated track car now and as a result, this draws my attention back to where it always is... The Chimaera.

Running an RX-8, I don't see why I couldn't afford to run a Chim - currently, I pay £500 VED and get 16mpg on average, but as someone with no mechanical skill or knowledge whatsoever, I'm still put off by the bad stigma the brand has... so, Chim owners, I ask you:

Realistically, what sort of fuel economy would I see (10mpg or 100mpg - it doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious) in general use - bit of A roads, bit of B roads?

Could I use one as a daily? If I stay living where I am now, a 12 mile round trip commute, if I move back in with my dad a 30 mile round trip commute? My annual mileage changes constantly, it fluctuates between 6-11k per year.

What is the engine/gearbox reliability like in general?

Are there any tell-tale signs of chassis rot - from what I've read you can't really tell unless you removed the body?

Are they as much of a lucky dip as people say? The prices vary so much, does this genuinely reflect condition? How much should I be paying for a Chim 4.0 with 60k miles?

What are likely repair costs - are they expensive? (such as roof, engine/gearbox parts etc).

Are these really best suited to be a weekend car for the nice summer months, or could I feasibly sell the RX-8 and use a Chim as a daily, would the winter weather ruin the car - chassis, roof etc?

Sorry for so many questions. I'm so desperate for one of these, I potentially have around £7,000 but it would have to be my only and that is what puts me off. Man maths is normally easy for me, hence the reason I have the cars I have at a relatively young age... But I consider a Chim to be a whole other level!

Tremaine,

Someone will hopefully be about to give you more accurate answers, but here's my 2pennenth. I've a 4.5ltr, so a bit different, but similar enough;-

1) If you've been looking for 9 months, you should have the answers by now?
2) Go to a Tvr meet & see the owners, a) for their experiences & b) to see what the cars are really like, both driving & build quality.
3) My car does 20-25mpg pottering about/open road/m-way - quite a bit less if spirited/town driving.
4) Road Tax is about £240/yr - PLG rate. Note, next year there may be a one off tax of £500 for 'large emission engines'(i think). Govt has to get back the money it's losing from all the tax free cars somewhere.
5)My engine gets warm after about 3-4 miles. These cars usually run rich & dont like a short journey, but 12 miles seems ok - BUT you wont like the heatsoak from the engine stuck in traffic if your daily route does this. Even with roof off, you'll get v.hot. Check the fans work (to cool the engine, not you!). Early bonnets didnt have the vents in later cars had, & a 90's car may have lost some of it's cooling ability (radiator getting clogged etc).
6) A spring/summer/autumn daily, but probably not winter. Some PH's do use theirs daily. Remember these cars can/do leak, so interiors can become tired quickly - have you a garage? Check to see if seats need recovering etc. Rear wheel drive/high torque not good on snow/ice. Salt will attack any car. Early 90's cars had better chassis protection than mid - late 90's cars i think. Useful boot size, & large parcel shelf.
7) Remember these cars arent built to Jap standards,but do drive better the more you use them (like any car). You'll have 1980's chassis tech, & your gauges may need contacts cleaning to read more reliably. Hopefully in some ways, it'll be better than when it left the factory, for if you get a good one the owners will have uprated bits & pieces over time.
8) V8 engine is strong, but you'll probably need cam/tappets rebuilt at approx 50k.
9) Gearbox usually strong. Gearchange can be heavy, but sometimes it feels in keeping with the car, this isnt a modern car, it's old school, & needing a bit of a shove can be part of the charm, it suits the cars character.
10)Electrics are the weak point, especially if left outside with no use. Hopefully though you'll find one which has had work done over the years. If alarm/immobiliser is original, it will need replacing. My car was 11 years old when i got it, it was one of the first things i did. Lots of people have had starting problems which go back to the old alarm/immobiliser deteriorating with age.
11)Try & get one with a lighter clutch, they vary a lot for the same car, & it makes a big difference in traffic/longer journeys.
12) For £7k, you are in the 'lucky dip' bracket, but this is where doing your homework/meeting owners come in, there are a lot of rotting dogs for that money, but also good looked after ones. Remember these cars have no driver aids or side/rollover protection etc at all.
13) Chassis rot - Have a poke around the tubular rails, worst cases will show up straight away, but really you need to have up on a ramp for a good look. Sometimes body off is the only way.Again, buying a car from a car club owner/source with good history at this price range may be better. Alternatively you buy from the like of e-bay for lowest price & put any money saved into a contingency fund. Think chassis/outrigger replacement is £1.5 - 3k+ depending on work done.
14) See what your insurance will be, this might make it a go/stop action before you go further.
15) Parts usually cheap (ex ford, landrover or vauxhall), but remember these cars are getting old, & things like windscreens are harder to source. Even original wheels are getting expensive/rare, although lots of newer alloys that will do the job.
16) Keep a £1 - 2k contingency fund per year for repairs etc, you wont always need this, but need to have just in case.
17) You car probably wont have power steering.
18) These cars are relatively cheap/simple to work on, but if you're not going to do the work yourself, see who your nearest indy specialist is (they may also have an owner willing to sell, & they'd know the history). You can give to a 'normal' garage, but they probably wouldnt know all the 'peculiarities' of the marque.

These cars can be addictive, & sound like few others, so have their attractions, & you could get an ok one for your £7k budget with the right research. Buy on condition, not age, after doing the right homework, & go in with your eyes open.

Good luck with your search.

T

[900T-R]

Nothing more to add to the above except that by now, you'll have to buy a Chim on the understanding that it will need an outrigger replacement at some point - unless the car in question already had the work performed to a decent standard.

[Frio3535]

Would just emphasise point 16 above - ensure you have a good slush fund. I used my old Chimaera all year round, and do the same with my Griffith. I've had 3 services in 16months.

Buying one is the easy part and running one can be relatively inexpensive day to day, then all of a sudden you get thrown a £1500 service bill because your manifolds are leaking (for example).

One bit of advice I'd give is make sure you have got some proper wipers on the car. Can't stress how much of a difference good wipers make to the whole Winter driving experience.

It's all good though - a Winters evening drive with the roof off is every bit as good as one in Summer

Edited by Frio3535 on Tuesday 24th June 08:27

Edited by Frio3535 on Tuesday 24th June 08:28

[900T-R]

Frio3535 said:

It's all good though - a Winters evening drive with the roof off is every bit as good as one in Summer

This is a point that cannot be repeated often enough

[snorky]

"Early bonnets didn't have the vents in later cars had"

really? I've never seen one without the same vents...


also use of Rainex makes the use of wipers redundant most of the time

Edited by snorky on Tuesday 24th June 13:16

[900T-R]

snorky said:

"Early bonnets didn't have the vents in later cars had"

really? I've never seen one without the same vents...

Only the pre-production ones (as per the 1992 Birmingham show car) didn't have the bonnet slashes, and those had slots between bonnet sides and wings like what the Cerbera would end up with.

[TVRJAS]

Very good and realistic comments have already been made and is difficult to add anything to the above.

I have never before run a blog on what cars actually cost,my method over the years has been when you get a bill you pay it,if I want an upgrade pay it,when fuel needed over goes the credit/debit card pay it. Then when you see your bank statement look at it and think oh right but have actually never looked at what cars cost to run and maintain.

So having owned this latest Chim 12 months in a weeks time and since joining PH I have made full use of the blog section on my profile. Sometimes I look at it and think bloody Nora and maybe this is why not so many fill them out as they don't really want to know the true costs,or they just don't care (we are all different)

So I am quite shocked at what my car has actually cost,if I had not done the blog I would of been miles away if someone had asked me what they cost to run. Take a look at my blog and that is everything it has cost me in 11 months 3 weeks.

As Frio mentioned I got hit with this manifold problem and my engine had to be lifted out to release a bolt that would't budge which has caused the overall breakdown of costs to rise.

When I bought mine it was and still is a very fine example £11k paid but have been hit with unknown costs but this could of happened on any car. You could buy a £6-7K Chim and not have the manifold problem I had. Point is like others have said is you will need a slush fund and not buy on budget just in case(But it may not be needed if your lucky) Only last week a car at our local meet had it's handbrake fail after over 1hr of sitting there and we all painfully watched as it headed towards a large tree protected by a large bush. Now i'm sure if it was my car there would of been damage and scratches but he pulled it out with a scratch on the number plate and a couple of very light marks on the underneath(It's the luck part in life)

Fuel has pretty much been covered and I don't think you have much to fear on running your current car. I monitor mine through Fuelly.com and the best so far motorway run 27.5mpg and after 33 full fill ups has an average 22.3. We had a TVR event on Sunday(Thunder in the tunnels)that's driving through London central stop start and revving the engine for over 2hrs plus a spirited drive to Dunsfold super car event and just filled up today at an average of 20.7 and it does not get much worse than that.

As also pointed out is the insurance problem but I'm sure you have already looked into this.

One final point is that although my blog is running at £534 a month(83p per mile) and will drop to about £490 when it flicks over to 12 months,you will notice that there is NO depreciation. And that is a positive buying a Chimaera the depreciation should be nothing and as talked about on classic car forums there could be gains in the near future.

Ok one other final point.... They are worth every penny spent

EDITED... Replacement roof you would be looking around the £6/700 mark and I had just a new rear screen replaced last year at £240

Edited by TVRJAS on Tuesday 24th June 18:17

[ianwayne]

Frio3535 said:

Would just emphasise point 16 above - ensure you have a good slush fund. I used my old Chimaera all year round, and do the same with my Griffith. I've had 3 services in 16months.

Buying one is the easy part and running one can be relatively inexpensive day to day, then all of a sudden you get thrown a £1500 service bill because your manifolds are leaking (for example)...

If you meant exhaust manifolds, my exhaust manifold gaskets were both leaking badly. Whole job including some replacement fuel hose was less than £300 at TVR Central. That said, he premise of unexpected bills is correct.

As for bonnet vents, the original mention in the long list is correct. The bonnet vents are slightly bigger / wider on the post-facelift models 1997 ish. Not sure it has a big effect on reducing under bonnet temperatures but TVR were aware of it.

[TREMAiNE]

Hi Guys,

Thank you all for your detailed an honest answers.

Just to clarify - yes insurance is fine, quick online quotes are around £1,000 and historically I pay 20% or so less than what I am quoted online after I call up.

When I say looking for 9 months, I meant just casually browsing the classifieds and asking owners to tell me how awesome they are not actually looking at the important facts.


All of this info has given me a pretty realistic look at Chim ownership. I can definitely afford to run one day to day, though my only concern is that I would almost definitely need a slush fund of a few thousand pounds, that would be my only problem, so its likely that I won't end up getting a TVR until Q4 2014/Q1 2015 - But I guess it will be better to get one later and be prepared for any issues!


TVRJAS your blog has given me a pretty good insight into the costs so cheers for referring me to that!

I'll definitely try to chat to some owners around my way just to convince me even more and maybe even get a passenger ride... Its one of my dream cars and I'd definitely like to take a punt whilst I can afford to than pass up the opportunity and regret it.
I really do hope I can return to this thread in 6 months with an update that I finally took the plunge!

[s p a c e m a n]

Random ramblings whilst watching England play Sunday league pub football..

I bought mine cheap over a year ago, it was cheap because the paintwork is in a state.. which is exactly what I wanted because I use it as my daily driver. I use it to go the 20 miles to work every day, shopping at Tescos, to the pub and the occasional weekend away and have no problems. I never quite realised how small they were until I'd had it a couple of weeks, but I'd had big saloons and estates for the previous 10 years after teenage years in hatchbacks so had never owned a two little two seat convertible, I don't mean it as a bad thing it was just bit of a culture shock.

Maintenance is very easy to learn on these, I've serviced mine, changed the manifold gaskets, coilovers and wishbones with a £50 Halfords socket set and a pair of axle stands on my driveway, The majority of things really are just a case of undoing a couple of bolts and putting on a new part, it's definitely not rocket science working on these cars and if you can change a chain on a BMX then you can keep one of these things on the road. If you buy one with a healthy engine, decent clutch and no chassis rot then your emergency breakdown slush fund will soon turn into your buy shiny bits and modifying fund

The biggest problem that I have had using it as a daily is waterproofing. When I first got mine I think that it hadn't seen the rain since it was born and I spent the best part of a month sikaflexing all the seals under the bonnet and the windscreen chasing leaks, playing with the boot seal and tail lights then using a couple bottles of renovo on the roof. It's waterproof now, I could take it through a carwash and not get wet, but bare in mind that a lot of people just keep these cars in garages and only bring them out in the sunshine.

That said, if you're going to use it every day then I recommend getting one with some miles on it. No car really responds well to being mothballed and only brought out occasionally, plus people put up with niggles rather than getting them fixed if they rarely use the car. I think the consensus is the camshaft starts going at 70k miles so anything over or near there start asking if it's had a change. As for outriggers, it's always bit of a gamble but most people who have worked on one would be able to take an educated guess that normally wouldn't be too far out so you need one of them really. You can get a good clue from looking at the condition of the rest of the chassis and having a dig around under there, I definitely would never buy one without having a good crawl about underneath it at the least though.

Mines just passed 50k miles and I've insured it with normal insurance rather than classic as I've got a load of nasty points on my license and live in far from the best London suburb (had no hint of chav/traveler/druggie going anywhere near my car and it sits out in the road) and pay less for the insurance than my previous Audi S4, done 10k miles in it over the past year and only broke down once due to my own stupidity. The only real maintenance other than oil changes are that I had to change the clutch on it but that was due to the previous owner buying a techniclutch off of ebay for about £2 That would have cost me about £400 all in if I hadn't bought the bits myself and helped with the fitting and I did the manifold gaskets that took me a day and cost £30 in bits. Because so little had gone wrong I started spending my excess slush fund on upgrades and changed the suspension and wheels, I'm currently doing bits of the interior and then I'm going to upgrade the brakes. If it continues not to live up to this false TVR reputation of falling apart I'm going to have it painted with the next slush fund excess

I look at it as a sensible compromise over having a motorbike because I can't justify owning two vehicles, it can be noisy and childish and it's probably going to hurt if you throw it into a ditch, but you can fit the shopping in the boot and stay dry if it's raining. I was actually gutted when it didn't snow this year because it had behaved so well in the torrential rain and flooding that I didn't think that it would have a problem playing in the snow.

And now I'm going to sulk because I didn't win my final bet of England walking away with no points

[s p a c e m a n]

TREMAiNE said:

though my only concern is that I would almost definitely need a slush fund of a few thousand pounds, that would be my only problem, so its likely that I won't end up getting a TVR until Q4 2014/Q1 2015 - But I guess it will be better to get one later and be prepared for any issues!

My slush fund is a grand, and I would be seriously gutted if I had to spend it. Short of the engine/gearbox/diff exploding I can't think of anything that would cost more than £500 to be fixed by a garage (outriggers too obviously). If you buy sensibly then the only big thing you can't really plan for is a clutch change after a few months, anything else that would cost money should be apparent at the time you're buying the car. Clonking, banging and vibrating is very easy to notice in these cars too due to the lack of sound deadening and the fact that you're sitting on most of it so it's very hard to disguise serious problems.

[MethylatedSpirit]

You'll get about 25mpg

It'll throw the odd 1-1.5k bill (Mainly camshaft, outriggers and exhaust manifold gaskets can be trouble areas, aside from that they're pretty reliable)

Everyone loves TVRs. So many people look and ask questions about it.

The steering is very quick if you're not used to it.

Learn to service it yourself. A quick oil change isn't that hard.

Chassis rot is normally on the outer rails of the chassis, near the wheels where all the muck gets thrown up. Check this area.

I wouldn't use the car when there is any salt on the road. Any other time is fair game as long as the chassis is sufficiently painted and protected.

Actually they run far better when they're used properly. My car decided to stall at junctions after leaving it for two weeks (BMW and their stop start technology? Pha! TVR got there first! ). Went away after the first day of using it.

Take a look at the wedges, cheaper to buy, half the cost to insure and going up in value



TVR has never left me stranded. Volkswagen has... Twice.

Edited by MethylatedSpirit on Tuesday 24th June 19:18

[slippery]

I would bin that 60k mileage criteria at your price point OP. There are some excellent cars out there with a lot more miles than that.

[s p a c e m a n]

+1 on that, I wouldn't think twice about buying one over 100k miles if the condition of it was good. Condition is everything with these cars, that little number on the speedo means very little.

[bsdnazz]

What they said.

I've had my daily drive Chim for just over 11 years (it's a S reg) and and it's got 77,000 on the clock. It started with 17,000.

The chassis rails were replaced a couple of years back and I've had a couple of failures (damper eye sheared off, alternator died, immobiliser replaced, fuel pump replaced ) but overall it's proved very reliable. I think much of this is due to the fact that it's my daily drive and problems get tend to get nipped in the bud. The fuel pump was replaced when it started making a funny noise so I was not stranded.

I took a chum down for the Le Mans 24hr recently and the Chim was faultless. I took out Euro breakdown cover but did not need it. I did use the jump leads but only to start a new Audi with a flat battery!

Looked after, a Chim will run for years...

[TREMAiNE]

Right.

I've spent the last hour doing proper man maths - the last time I did man maths this thoroughly was when I convinced myself that I couldn't afford not to buy an RX-7 and RX-8... So I'm pretty serious now!

I want to save for the slush fund first, with a target of saving £2,000. I want a big pot, I'd rather be safe than sorry!

I'll probably move back in with my dad and I reckon I could put away up to £500 a month... I'll start by adding £150 that I have left from this months wages!

Time to spend the next 4-6 months researching everything I can so that I'm prepared when I eventually start viewing Chim's!

EDIT - I'm one of those types who consider anything with more than 50K imminent for a costly repair - I know that is the wrong way to think, but I can't help it! Though as you've all said a higher miler could be a better call, I'll definitely take note and force myself to ignore what is really just a number.

Edited by TREMAiNE on Tuesday 24th June 20:35

[slippery]

You've got just as much chance of a catastrophic failure with a 40k Chim as you have with an 80k Chim I can assure you.

[900T-R]

slippery said:

You've got just as much chance of a catastrophic failure with a 40k Chim as you have with an 80k Chim I can assure you.

And far more chance of having to chase all sorts of gremlins from lack of use... 40K on cars this age is only 2-3K a year, not enough to keep a TVR well exercised IMO.