Debt liability on death
Discussion
Looking for some advice here.
Dad passed away last year, leaving no estate as such, I.e. no savings not in a joint savings or current account, and property joint so passes straight to mum.
The only debt he owed was for a Santander 123 credit card, which they used for purchases, and gets paid in full every month, out of their joint Santander account. The credit card was in Dads name.
Recently mum has started to receive letters to the executors of the estate regarding a debt for the card for about £4k.
After Dad died, mum used the additional card for purchases, for approx £2,500 and a direct debit was paid out of the joint account for £1,500.
As far as I know, mum cannot be responsible for Dads credit card debt, though I assume they can chase her for purchases after death (if they realise that). I am thinking they should not have taken any direct debits after death, and frozen the account. So in reality, they may only be able to pursue her for the £1k.??
As there is no estate to pay any of the creditors (only this card is a creditor anyway), funeral costs came out of mums savings, which is fine. There was no executors or anything like that, we just helped Mum write to who she needed re bills, insurances, bank accounts etc.
Now, what sort of letter do we need to write to the debt collection agency, to make them go away, as mum will likely just pay it if she receives more threatening letters? This is assuming we can tell them to do one that is......
Any advice would be much appreciated, as Mum could really do with not spending money she doesn't need to, and doesn't have much to do so anyway.thanks in advance.
Dad passed away last year, leaving no estate as such, I.e. no savings not in a joint savings or current account, and property joint so passes straight to mum.
The only debt he owed was for a Santander 123 credit card, which they used for purchases, and gets paid in full every month, out of their joint Santander account. The credit card was in Dads name.
Recently mum has started to receive letters to the executors of the estate regarding a debt for the card for about £4k.
After Dad died, mum used the additional card for purchases, for approx £2,500 and a direct debit was paid out of the joint account for £1,500.
As far as I know, mum cannot be responsible for Dads credit card debt, though I assume they can chase her for purchases after death (if they realise that). I am thinking they should not have taken any direct debits after death, and frozen the account. So in reality, they may only be able to pursue her for the £1k.??
As there is no estate to pay any of the creditors (only this card is a creditor anyway), funeral costs came out of mums savings, which is fine. There was no executors or anything like that, we just helped Mum write to who she needed re bills, insurances, bank accounts etc.
Now, what sort of letter do we need to write to the debt collection agency, to make them go away, as mum will likely just pay it if she receives more threatening letters? This is assuming we can tell them to do one that is......
Any advice would be much appreciated, as Mum could really do with not spending money she doesn't need to, and doesn't have much to do so anyway.thanks in advance.
So sorry to hear of your loss.
Did you inform Santander of your Dad's death before or after the £1,500 DD left the account?
Most lenders have it written in to their T&C's nowadays that if you bank with them that they can debit the monthly payment from ANY account you are named on with them, even if it's not the one set up to pay the monthly payment out of....and if you continue to not pay they can take the balance from any other account that you have a balance in, with that lender.
Did you inform Santander of your Dad's death before or after the £1,500 DD left the account?
Most lenders have it written in to their T&C's nowadays that if you bank with them that they can debit the monthly payment from ANY account you are named on with them, even if it's not the one set up to pay the monthly payment out of....and if you continue to not pay they can take the balance from any other account that you have a balance in, with that lender.
Countdown said:
OP - I'm not sure if I missed something (so apologies if I have) but I assume your mum is happy to repay the money she spent on the CC after your dad passed away?
It's just that, from what you've written, it appears you're hoping that part of the debt will disappear as well,
I thought it was just me that had read it that way too. A bit of clarification needed from the OP I think.It's just that, from what you've written, it appears you're hoping that part of the debt will disappear as well,
megaphone said:
Did he leave a will? Has you/your mother obtained a Grant of Probate? Your father's 'estate' is responsible for any debts and these should be paid by appointed executors from any assets. I assume that includes his half of the property.
This. You can't just do it DIY, there are legal processes to go through. Finance is often the last thing people want to think about after a bereavement but the wheels of the State keep rolling and must be attended to. This may some help: https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/overviewThe letters aren't going to go away so you must establish your position and deal with them I'm afriad.
Cyder said:
Countdown said:
OP - I'm not sure if I missed something (so apologies if I have) but I assume your mum is happy to repay the money she spent on the CC after your dad passed away?
It's just that, from what you've written, it appears you're hoping that part of the debt will disappear as well,
I thought it was just me that had read it that way too. A bit of clarification needed from the OP I think.It's just that, from what you've written, it appears you're hoping that part of the debt will disappear as well,
The only thing I can think of that could form part of an estate would be any accounts just in his name, but there were none. Just joint accounts, which as far as I can tell, do not have funds split from them to form part of an estate.
My question was for help in telling them that in a legal way they understand. From a quick google of the company name, there are many stories of them chasing/pressuring relatives for debts not owed, i.e. catalogue/credit card debts of deceased relatives etc...
As they took a payment after Dads death, which they may not have been made aware of by then, we should be able to claim that back, as it shouldnt have happened, or more easily, just offset that against what Mum spent on it after.
Trax said:
As they took a payment after Dads death, which they may not have been made aware of by then, we should be able to claim that back, as it shouldnt have happened, or more easily, just offset that against what Mum spent on it after.
Perhaps they shouldn't, but I presume that payment was to cover money your father had spent?I'm not sure how things work when there is a surviving spouse but essentially the 'estate' was all monies and assets that your father owned when he died. I can see your angle but you need professional and accurate help - try calling your local CAB for free advice.
brum said:
The bank that I work for look at it like this.
Any sole debt dies with the account holder
Any joint debt is passed on to the survivor
Any sole credit can be used to repay debt
Any funds spent after death by the family members must be re-payed.
Yep, thats how I believe it happens. Any sole debt dies with the account holder
Any joint debt is passed on to the survivor
Any sole credit can be used to repay debt
Any funds spent after death by the family members must be re-payed.
My main question was how to put this to the debt collection agency, who have a history of pressuring family members to pay sole debt from dead relatives, i.e. sayng they have to 'investigate' this etc...
Trax said:
My main question was how to put this to the debt collection agency
You can't yet because you don't know what your position is. IE you haven't found out whether your mother is technically liable for the debt. Find it out and then you can talk to the agency from a position of knowledge.grahamcain said:
How long has this gone on though ?
If its with a DRC then presumably a few months at least ?
Not long at all really, its just that the company has a fancy name, but on googling, they are a debt collection agency. They are just informing the executors of the estate at the moment, the collection letters will come letter, thats what I want to head off.If its with a DRC then presumably a few months at least ?
Firstly sorry for your loss.
I used to do a bit of work on the other side of the fence, quite a long time ago though.
Debts don't 'pass on' with the debtor they are passed onto the estate - there is always an estate - even if it's just a pile of unpaid bills, someone is assigned to sort it all out.
In my overly simplistic view your Mum is liable for the debt prior to your Dad's passing as his estate passed to your Mum (rough with the smooth and all that) and certainly post his passing, in fact I'd make sure they're paid promptly because make no mistake using the card of someone who has passed on is fraud.
I used to do a bit of work on the other side of the fence, quite a long time ago though.
Debts don't 'pass on' with the debtor they are passed onto the estate - there is always an estate - even if it's just a pile of unpaid bills, someone is assigned to sort it all out.
In my overly simplistic view your Mum is liable for the debt prior to your Dad's passing as his estate passed to your Mum (rough with the smooth and all that) and certainly post his passing, in fact I'd make sure they're paid promptly because make no mistake using the card of someone who has passed on is fraud.
brum said:
The bank that I work for look at it like this.
Any sole debt dies with the account holder
Any joint debt is passed on to the survivor
Any sole credit can be used to repay debt
Any funds spent after death by the family members must be re-payed.
A bank I used to work for was like that too, my solicitor was horrified when I told her when I went to sign my will.Any sole debt dies with the account holder
Any joint debt is passed on to the survivor
Any sole credit can be used to repay debt
Any funds spent after death by the family members must be re-payed.
The legal position and the 'bank doesn't want bad publicity' position can be the opposite of each other
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