References when you keep getting sacked?
Discussion
Okay - the title is a little misleading.
I had a job last year which I was good at, however when a new manager came in he started doing things differently. He decided to start insisting on searching me. For a couple of weeks I went along. However one day I told him I was unhappy about this "look xxx I've got keys for the store, I open the store, I have the codes for the store and I'm the person who gets called out of hours if there is a break in. If I wanted to steal something I wouldn't need to do it when anyone else is around". After this I said I was unhappy about being humiliated infront of my colleagues and that if he thought I had broken the law to call the Police.
I was suspended and in the end was offered another job whilst I was suspended so resigned and took the other job.
The other job only lasted a matter of weeks. It was a long commute and I realised that it wasn't what was sold to me. The money was rubbish, and I have to say that there was a strong racial bias in the company. In short the manager was from a certain place in the world, and over 90% of the people there were from the same part of the world. I'd turn up in the morning and no one would be there to tell me what to do. I'd be waiting all day as there was no equipment I needed.
Every week we had these sit in a circle and talk about your feeling meetings. I made the mistake that I explained what they could do to improve when they asked me was to get better management. I was told that it wasn't working out the next day and told to not bother working my notice.
Finally I just got another job. However it's in the same sector as the company last year. Work two days and I came in and was asked if it was true I was under investigation at old company. I explained I was and what happened. And was told "resign or we are sacking you for gross misconduct". I said I couldn't resign as I had no money to live so would need benefits. Again I think it's slightly unfair as I was never asked about this at interview and obviously no one highlights there weaknesses in interview.
So my position is now, how the hell am I going to get a job? Any advice from the older and smarter members on here.
I had a job last year which I was good at, however when a new manager came in he started doing things differently. He decided to start insisting on searching me. For a couple of weeks I went along. However one day I told him I was unhappy about this "look xxx I've got keys for the store, I open the store, I have the codes for the store and I'm the person who gets called out of hours if there is a break in. If I wanted to steal something I wouldn't need to do it when anyone else is around". After this I said I was unhappy about being humiliated infront of my colleagues and that if he thought I had broken the law to call the Police.
I was suspended and in the end was offered another job whilst I was suspended so resigned and took the other job.
The other job only lasted a matter of weeks. It was a long commute and I realised that it wasn't what was sold to me. The money was rubbish, and I have to say that there was a strong racial bias in the company. In short the manager was from a certain place in the world, and over 90% of the people there were from the same part of the world. I'd turn up in the morning and no one would be there to tell me what to do. I'd be waiting all day as there was no equipment I needed.
Every week we had these sit in a circle and talk about your feeling meetings. I made the mistake that I explained what they could do to improve when they asked me was to get better management. I was told that it wasn't working out the next day and told to not bother working my notice.
Finally I just got another job. However it's in the same sector as the company last year. Work two days and I came in and was asked if it was true I was under investigation at old company. I explained I was and what happened. And was told "resign or we are sacking you for gross misconduct". I said I couldn't resign as I had no money to live so would need benefits. Again I think it's slightly unfair as I was never asked about this at interview and obviously no one highlights there weaknesses in interview.
So my position is now, how the hell am I going to get a job? Any advice from the older and smarter members on here.
You need competent professional advice from a Solicitor specialising in employment law. There are a number of cases on this very point which are relevant. Take a good look at yourself because if lightening keeps striking in the same place in life than generally someone is conducting it there.
Bosses are not always right but they are always the boss. You may need to reeducate yourself in acceptable behaviour at work and on how to express yourself without pissing off the bosses. Your opinion may not be required in business conversations.
Take heart I was spectacularly sacked from a major PLC directorship many years ago making headline news and it was (eventually) the best thing that ever happened to me. Made me stop and think and change my ways. Up to you how you proceed but good advice and a rethink may be needed. Best of luck.
Bosses are not always right but they are always the boss. You may need to reeducate yourself in acceptable behaviour at work and on how to express yourself without pissing off the bosses. Your opinion may not be required in business conversations.
Take heart I was spectacularly sacked from a major PLC directorship many years ago making headline news and it was (eventually) the best thing that ever happened to me. Made me stop and think and change my ways. Up to you how you proceed but good advice and a rethink may be needed. Best of luck.
lookingforajob said:
I had a job last year which I was good at, however when a new manager came in he started doing things differently. He decided to start insisting on searching me. For a couple of weeks I went along. However one day I told him I was unhappy about this "look xxx I've got keys for the store, I open the store, I have the codes for the store and I'm the person who gets called out of hours if there is a break in. If I wanted to steal something I wouldn't need to do it when anyone else is around". After this I said I was unhappy about being humiliated infront of my colleagues and that if he thought I had broken the law to call the Police.
I was suspended and in the end was offered another job whilst I was suspended so resigned and took the other job.
If you had nothing to hide, what was the problem with him searching you?
Secondly; was he singling you out and only searching you every day, no-one else?
Do you have a criminal record or any history of theft?
At the end of the day, you resigned whilst under suspension for misconduct. This makes you look guilty, whether you did it or not.
As stated, you will need to seek proper legal advice as to whether your new company can sack you for misconduct for not revealing this
Steffan said:
You need competent professional advice from a Solicitor specialising in employment law. There are a number of cases on this very point which are relevant. Take a good look at yourself because if lightening keeps striking in the same place in life than generally someone is conducting it there.
Bosses are not always right but they are always the boss. You may need to reeducate yourself in acceptable behaviour at work and on how to express yourself without pissing off the bosses. Your opinion may not be required in business conversations.
Take heart I was spectacularly sacked from a major PLC directorship many years ago making headline news and it was (eventually) the best thing that ever happened to me. Made me stop and think and change my ways. Up to you how you proceed but good advice and a rethink may be needed. Best of luck.
Why would I need a solicitor? I'd been there two days. I sort of accept what the manager way saying. He gave me the option to jump or be pushed, and sadly I was not in the position to jump. For me it was a case of having enough money to eat or not. Scary as it sounds, but I've made foolish financial decisions and am in a position with no debts and no savings. I suppose I could have resigned and used my credit cards, however I have never owed money and unless I get a mortgage I don't want to. Bosses are not always right but they are always the boss. You may need to reeducate yourself in acceptable behaviour at work and on how to express yourself without pissing off the bosses. Your opinion may not be required in business conversations.
Take heart I was spectacularly sacked from a major PLC directorship many years ago making headline news and it was (eventually) the best thing that ever happened to me. Made me stop and think and change my ways. Up to you how you proceed but good advice and a rethink may be needed. Best of luck.
I do realise that I should never have said what I did about the management. There was no way I was ever going to come out of that well. Infact I shot myself in the head. My passion for actually wanting to do a job properly meant that I didn't use my head. I will not be making that mistake again.
Overall with my background it's difficult. I was in the army for just over a year before badly injuring my leg and getting medically discharged. I dropped out of a Russell Group University to join the army. I then worked for myself starting a landscaping firm. I did quite well at this, but decided it wasn't what I wanted long term so chose to sell the equipment and go travelling to find my passion for life again. When I came back I needed a job so started doing sales. I also privately tutor GCSE and A-Level Maths and Science, and am currently finishing the degree that I dropped out of through the Open University.
Ultimately I want to get to a position where I can work in an environment where you are not told to turn out your pockets for no reason, and you are spoken to with a bit of respect. However as thing stand I need a job. Just a job. Offer me a job now cleaning public toilets and I would probably take it.
My main concern is what do I say at interview. Clearly being honest is great, and I've seen even if you do not lie your past can come back to shoot you in the head!
Muzzer79 said:
OK, we'll deal with the elephant in the room first:
If you had nothing to hide, what was the problem with him searching you?
Secondly; was he singling you out and only searching you every day, no-one else?
Do you have a criminal record or any history of theft?
At the end of the day, you resigned whilst under suspension for misconduct. This makes you look guilty, whether you did it or not.
As stated, you will need to seek proper legal advice as to whether your new company can sack you for misconduct for not revealing this
The problem was, that I'd done nothing wrong and having it happen every day was pointless and somewhat degrading. I have no criminal record. Before working for that company they check this along with your credit rating. They used disclosure scotland and experian for this. If you had nothing to hide, what was the problem with him searching you?
Secondly; was he singling you out and only searching you every day, no-one else?
Do you have a criminal record or any history of theft?
At the end of the day, you resigned whilst under suspension for misconduct. This makes you look guilty, whether you did it or not.
As stated, you will need to seek proper legal advice as to whether your new company can sack you for misconduct for not revealing this
I accept this. Infact they were within their rights to sack me for gross misconduct for refusing to be searched. It was in my contract which I did not have a copy off at the time.
Other members of staff were also searched by this manager. I was just foolish enough to stand up to him.
I'm more than happy to accept I've made mistakes. I'm more interested in seeing how I can overcome them. I've no interest in taking court action against a company that sacked me after working for them for two days.
lookingforajob said:
Muzzer79 said:
OK, we'll deal with the elephant in the room first:
If you had nothing to hide, what was the problem with him searching you?
Secondly; was he singling you out and only searching you every day, no-one else?
Do you have a criminal record or any history of theft?
At the end of the day, you resigned whilst under suspension for misconduct. This makes you look guilty, whether you did it or not.
As stated, you will need to seek proper legal advice as to whether your new company can sack you for misconduct for not revealing this
The problem was, that I'd done nothing wrong and having it happen every day was pointless and somewhat degrading. I have no criminal record. Before working for that company they check this along with your credit rating. They used disclosure scotland and experian for this. If you had nothing to hide, what was the problem with him searching you?
Secondly; was he singling you out and only searching you every day, no-one else?
Do you have a criminal record or any history of theft?
At the end of the day, you resigned whilst under suspension for misconduct. This makes you look guilty, whether you did it or not.
As stated, you will need to seek proper legal advice as to whether your new company can sack you for misconduct for not revealing this
I accept this. Infact they were within their rights to sack me for gross misconduct for refusing to be searched. It was in my contract which I did not have a copy off at the time.
Other members of staff were also searched by this manager. I was just foolish enough to stand up to him.
I'm more than happy to accept I've made mistakes. I'm more interested in seeing how I can overcome them. I've no interest in taking court action against a company that sacked me after working for them for two days.
Put yourself in the manager of your original job's position. Perhaps stock was going missing, perhaps he just suspected it was, perhaps he thought it could be.
If he was searching everyone, he was doing the right thing. If you have nothing to hide, there should be no objection to being searched when you leave a job. Work at Amazon or a parcel company for example and there's scanners on the way in and out.
Do you get the hump when you're frisked at the airport before going on holiday? I think not - same thing here.
So you weren't "standing up" to your manager - you were coming across as difficult and a potential problem. You were acting like you had something to hide.
Ergo, he suspended you. You left before this was seen out and now look guilty.
This is difficult to move on from. Not sure what advice I can give other than perhaps going back to that original job and trying to explain it out with them. Be prepared for a door in your face though...
Life is not always black and white. People do not always need a reason to search you or similar. Don't take things so personally.
Muzzer79 said:
With all respect, your attitude needs adjustment.
Put yourself in the manager of your original job's position. Perhaps stock was going missing, perhaps he just suspected it was, perhaps he thought it could be.
If he was searching everyone, he was doing the right thing. If you have nothing to hide, there should be no objection to being searched when you leave a job. Work at Amazon or a parcel company for example and there's scanners on the way in and out.
Do you get the hump when you're frisked at the airport before going on holiday? I think not - same thing here.
So you weren't "standing up" to your manager - you were coming across as difficult and a potential problem. You were acting like you had something to hide.
Ergo, he suspended you. You left before this was seen out and now look guilty.
This is difficult to move on from. Not sure what advice I can give other than perhaps going back to that original job and trying to explain it out with them. Be prepared for a door in your face though...
Life is not always black and white. People do not always need a reason to search you or similar. Don't take things so personally.
I appreciate your opinion, and thank you for taking the time to respond. I know I'm not a perfect person. Infact I'm well aware of all my flaws. Like most people I try and work on them, and sometimes make a mistake. Put yourself in the manager of your original job's position. Perhaps stock was going missing, perhaps he just suspected it was, perhaps he thought it could be.
If he was searching everyone, he was doing the right thing. If you have nothing to hide, there should be no objection to being searched when you leave a job. Work at Amazon or a parcel company for example and there's scanners on the way in and out.
Do you get the hump when you're frisked at the airport before going on holiday? I think not - same thing here.
So you weren't "standing up" to your manager - you were coming across as difficult and a potential problem. You were acting like you had something to hide.
Ergo, he suspended you. You left before this was seen out and now look guilty.
This is difficult to move on from. Not sure what advice I can give other than perhaps going back to that original job and trying to explain it out with them. Be prepared for a door in your face though...
Life is not always black and white. People do not always need a reason to search you or similar. Don't take things so personally.
I respectfully think most of what you have said is wrong. But you are entitled to say it.
Jamp said:
Got any old contacts from your landscaping days? I'd restart your firm if you know you could get work (hence cash) quickly. Similarly you could take a loan to equip the firm if you know you can get the work to pay it off. Good luck.
Thats a good idea - however isn't really worth it in the long run for me. For me to start up again, I'd need a vehicle (as in Van or pick-up) as I drive a mini cooper. Given that I will be graduating next year I can't see it paying for itself back. Especially when I factor in having to advertise for work - get out and find work, and then get it done. Worst case scenario I would do that - however I honestly would like to explore all options first. Also with my degree I wanted something where I can earn enough to live - before I can start a career. As thing stands, I feel more than qualified to work in a PAYE role, however I can't give myself a reference and any reference from the Army is quite old now.
I do have an interview coming up - but I know when they ask me about why I left, and referenced I will have to lie. I do have friends and colleagues in senior roles in the organisation who will give me a reference, however I don't want to jeopardise their jobs by asking them to do this.
I'm wondering if some companies will take references from people who I have "worked for" as in teaching their children etc... I'd say this shows a high level of professionalism, but generally they want references from the employers on the CV.
It's also a shame it's coming up to school holidays - all tutoring dies off completely. I could live off the tutoring when it comes to exam times which is when it goes mad.
Hi,
Your OP mentions this chap was a new manager. Can you get a reference from your old manager ?
You can take a risk and be honest with the interviewer,
" I worked at the company for 10 months, in that time I was a key holder, contact for the alarm systems, had full access to stock and store codes. After ten successful months a new manager came in, and whilst they made some positive changes, I personally didn't want to work in an organisation which didn't place trust in its employees. I was searched on a number of occasions however I made my objections known to the new manager, who reacted by sacking me for gross misconduct."
I appreciate this doesn't look great, but I need to tell you directly, my previous manager is happy to provide a reference, there is no ongoing action from the company, I have never been investigated, or had a disciplinary or any kind of accusation, it was simply a disagreement over the way the policy was brought in and handled."
This approach may not work everywhere, but I think with your Army background, One solid reference from your previous manager you might be OK. The fact that you are going back to OU and generally are on track should be good indicators you have the right stuff.
However it is all about attitude, one whiff that you are a potential rebel, and you will be out the door.
Gargamel said:
Hi,
Your OP mentions this chap was a new manager. Can you get a reference from your old manager ?
You can take a risk and be honest with the interviewer,
" I worked at the company for 10 months, in that time I was a key holder, contact for the alarm systems, had full access to stock and store codes. After ten successful months a new manager came in, and whilst they made some positive changes, I personally didn't want to work in an organisation which didn't place trust in its employees. I was searched on a number of occasions however I made my objections known to the new manager, who reacted by sacking me for gross misconduct."
I appreciate this doesn't look great, but I need to tell you directly, my previous manager is happy to provide a reference, there is no ongoing action from the company, I have never been investigated, or had a disciplinary or any kind of accusation, it was simply a disagreement over the way the policy was brought in and handled."
This approach may not work everywhere, but I think with your Army background, One solid reference from your previous manager you might be OK. The fact that you are going back to OU and generally are on track should be good indicators you have the right stuff.
However it is all about attitude, one whiff that you are a potential rebel, and you will be out the door.
Thanks - that is a really good way at looking for this. My previous manager has agreed to give me a reference. He's given me his company email address and mobile number to put down if I need any references. Me and him had a great relationship, he treated people like adults and allowed us to get on with the job. Under him I actually broke a store record. And he is someone I call a friend and often meet up with for a drink. Your OP mentions this chap was a new manager. Can you get a reference from your old manager ?
You can take a risk and be honest with the interviewer,
" I worked at the company for 10 months, in that time I was a key holder, contact for the alarm systems, had full access to stock and store codes. After ten successful months a new manager came in, and whilst they made some positive changes, I personally didn't want to work in an organisation which didn't place trust in its employees. I was searched on a number of occasions however I made my objections known to the new manager, who reacted by sacking me for gross misconduct."
I appreciate this doesn't look great, but I need to tell you directly, my previous manager is happy to provide a reference, there is no ongoing action from the company, I have never been investigated, or had a disciplinary or any kind of accusation, it was simply a disagreement over the way the policy was brought in and handled."
This approach may not work everywhere, but I think with your Army background, One solid reference from your previous manager you might be OK. The fact that you are going back to OU and generally are on track should be good indicators you have the right stuff.
However it is all about attitude, one whiff that you are a potential rebel, and you will be out the door.
However I am concious that I don't want to put him in a position where he could be in any trouble.
I'd try and find out what a reference actually says - can you get someone with a business to contact them and say they are thinking of employing you and find out?
Many companies don't want to write bad references for fear of repercussions and have a policy to only confirm a job title and dates you worked there, and if any of your past employers do this, you can use these employers unless they specifically ask for others.
Many companies don't want to write bad references for fear of repercussions and have a policy to only confirm a job title and dates you worked there, and if any of your past employers do this, you can use these employers unless they specifically ask for others.
Does nobody Brown NOSE anymore ?
If you want to get on, agree with the boss, do what you are told, make friends with team leaders, and your colleagues and work YOUR arse off. You have no rights until 2 years.
As far as references go, don't give any. Say you took 3 months off to decorate your nans house.
If you want to get on, agree with the boss, do what you are told, make friends with team leaders, and your colleagues and work YOUR arse off. You have no rights until 2 years.
As far as references go, don't give any. Say you took 3 months off to decorate your nans house.
OP - you say it was demeaning to be searched yet give no insight as to why. what industry are you in?
i'm currently searched twice on the way into work and again on the way out. i've told all my team that if they spot anything worth stealing at the client site to please tell me. however i smile each day as the car is searched and all my bags turned out. quite amusing yesterday when the security guard was caught palming some durex he found in one of the guy's rucksacks.
any manager worth their salt will appreciate honesty and courage. you only need one to see this and give you a chance and then you can start rebuilding your cv.
i'm currently searched twice on the way into work and again on the way out. i've told all my team that if they spot anything worth stealing at the client site to please tell me. however i smile each day as the car is searched and all my bags turned out. quite amusing yesterday when the security guard was caught palming some durex he found in one of the guy's rucksacks.
lookingforajob said:
I do have an interview coming up - but I know when they ask me about why I left, and referenced I will have to lie. I do have friends and colleagues in senior roles in the organisation who will give me a reference, however I don't want to jeopardise their jobs by asking them to do this.
you say you are a moral person but then when faced with a decision to tell the truth or lie you automatically go for the lie. then when the manager discovers your dishonesty they [quite rightly] dismiss you. i'm also concerned about the comment re: jeapordising people's jobs for them providing you a reference. this would only be the case if they are covering your lies or character defects.any manager worth their salt will appreciate honesty and courage. you only need one to see this and give you a chance and then you can start rebuilding your cv.
shirt said:
OP - you say it was demeaning to be searched yet give no insight as to why. what industry are you in?
i'm currently searched twice on the way into work and again on the way out. i've told all my team that if they spot anything worth stealing at the client site to please tell me. however i smile each day as the car is searched and all my bags turned out. quite amusing yesterday when the security guard was caught palming some durex he found in one of the guy's rucksacks.
any manager worth their salt will appreciate honesty and courage. you only need one to see this and give you a chance and then you can start rebuilding your cv.
Quite simply because it served no purpose! Given I was opening and sometimes closing the store ALONE and I did the banking ALONE searching me when he was there did not really achieve anything. I also believe in that situation it creates mistrust and gives a negative image. Finally you talk of security - no one at this place of work were security. There was no insurance or provision if anything was damaged or someone was injured in the "searched". However I have learnt my lesson and from now on will be the sheep that follows the flock. Whilst I don't agree with things, I will just smile and get on with them. i'm currently searched twice on the way into work and again on the way out. i've told all my team that if they spot anything worth stealing at the client site to please tell me. however i smile each day as the car is searched and all my bags turned out. quite amusing yesterday when the security guard was caught palming some durex he found in one of the guy's rucksacks.
lookingforajob said:
I do have an interview coming up - but I know when they ask me about why I left, and referenced I will have to lie. I do have friends and colleagues in senior roles in the organisation who will give me a reference, however I don't want to jeopardise their jobs by asking them to do this.
you say you are a moral person but then when faced with a decision to tell the truth or lie you automatically go for the lie. then when the manager discovers your dishonesty they [quite rightly] dismiss you. i'm also concerned about the comment re: jeapordising people's jobs for them providing you a reference. this would only be the case if they are covering your lies or character defects.any manager worth their salt will appreciate honesty and courage. you only need one to see this and give you a chance and then you can start rebuilding your cv.
As another point. I have NEVER had a problem being searched when I was in the army (admittedly rarely). I have had no problems being searched when I have visited secure locations (I had a job where security was of paramount importance in the engineering indstry). What I had a problem with was something deciding to do all of this to prove a point, that he was the boss. As I've said I realise that's not going to get my anywhere and I won't be doing it again.
Your last paragraph is wrong - in big companies there are different levels of managers. If one decides to go around the norm and give a reference for someone when another manager may not give that reference then it will lead to aggravation if it comes out. I don't know anyone who would risk their career to lie for me. I do know some people who have offered to help me out because they feel that I've been treated badly in some ways.
As I've said - I'm not deflecting from the fact that I've made mistakes. What I am trying to do is move forward.
Martin4x4 said:
Talk to a specialist employment solicitor sounds like you have some good cases.
The irony is that I never wanted to go down this route. However it looks like I may have too. The manager from the job I left last has put on the system that I resigned. Clearly this is so that he does not have to go down the disciplinary route. I think it's probably because he has not done the checks he should have done before offering me a job and starting with me. And also claiming gross misconduct would be harsh given he never asked me the question at interview.
However it has left me in a position where I will not be paid the notice period (only a week) that I am entitled to. It also has left me in a position where I might not be able to feed myself - given I will not be entitled to any benefits. DWP are looking into this and doing their own investigation.
The HR department are looking into this. It's a shame as I personally didn't have a problem with the manager and he seemed like a good bloke to me. However after him giving me a speech about wanting to go for a pint some time and honesty being the best policy him doing this has put me in a very dodgy position.
I am not too worried - as there is CCTV of the conversation. He clearly never thought I would find out how he has processed my leaving the company. But for him I imagine it will be a very serious mistake.
Ultimately they are at risk of me complaining to the FCA, the ICO and suing in the county court for breach of contract. So I expect them to sort this pronto.
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