Moving into management.
Discussion
I'm at the stage where I have the experience to move up ladder to a job that combines junior management and still doing the thing I do currently. There is some mentoring and educating which I enjoy but I'm not sure if I'm ready for the management side, disciplining people, chasing up problems with staff etc. it's a decent jump in money but I'm not sure if its the right move.
How did you know it was time to move up the ladder?
How did you know it was time to move up the ladder?
Ruskie said:
How did you know it was time to move up the ladder?
When I was doing my boss's job 
.To be fair she was bored silly and looking to move on, I enjoyed doing her work and she put in a good word for me when i went for the promotion.
You never know when it's the right time to make the jump. No matter how long you've been there, how many management training courses you've been on, you'll never be perfectly ready. It's one of those things that you learn best by doing. In fact, 20 years on, I'm still learning how to manage people. Some staff are great, others think they're great, and others are just a PITA.
The best advice to give to a manager is to "Keep the 60% of staff who hate you away from the 40% who are undecided"
.When? When I wanted to earn more money and stop doing 'hands on' stuff.
You have to keep in mind that 'Management' shouldn't be just something you're rewarded with when you get really good at your job, it's a completely different role IMO although in 90% of cases IMO that's exactly what happens - it seems a uniquely British thing to me, but I've worked for some terrible managers over the years who were brilliant Reps, Engineers, Accountants etc who saw 'management' as a pat on the back for being so good and used it to polish their ego whilst the whole place fell about their ears.
People management isn't about telling people what to do, or telling them off when they don't - that's HR's job - it's all about motivation.
You have to keep in mind that 'Management' shouldn't be just something you're rewarded with when you get really good at your job, it's a completely different role IMO although in 90% of cases IMO that's exactly what happens - it seems a uniquely British thing to me, but I've worked for some terrible managers over the years who were brilliant Reps, Engineers, Accountants etc who saw 'management' as a pat on the back for being so good and used it to polish their ego whilst the whole place fell about their ears.
People management isn't about telling people what to do, or telling them off when they don't - that's HR's job - it's all about motivation.
P-Jay said:
People management isn't about telling people what to do, or telling them off when they don't - that's HR's job - it's all about motivation.
Except that you cannot motivate people. People are motivated by the things that motivate them. It is far easier to not motivate someone. For instance, if one person's motivation is money, then going to work and getting paid is essentially their main motivation.
Ruskie said:
I'm at the stage where I have the experience to move up ladder to a job that combines junior management and still doing the thing I do currently. There is some mentoring and educating which I enjoy but I'm not sure if I'm ready for the management side, disciplining people, chasing up problems with staff etc. it's a decent jump in money but I'm not sure if its the right move.
How did you know it was time to move up the ladder?
I knew I was ready when I looked at my boss' job and thought How did you know it was time to move up the ladder?
"I could do that"
I always think of it in possibly cringe-worthy football terms:
> A good striker does not necessarily make a good manager
> As a manager, you should not be out there sticking the ball in the net
> If it goes wrong, the axe falls on you
> Sometimes you have to administer the hairdryer - ensure you are comfortable with that
> Your players are the key - get them winning and you'll look good.
TheAngryDog said:
P-Jay said:
People management isn't about telling people what to do, or telling them off when they don't - that's HR's job - it's all about motivation.
Except that you cannot motivate people. People are motivated by the things that motivate them. It is far easier to not motivate someone. For instance, if one person's motivation is money, then going to work and getting paid is essentially their main motivation.
In my limited experience the best work forces have a good mix of 'plodders' and 'go getters', too many of either can cause problems.
I always tend to have a lot of ideas about how things could be done and seem to have a knack for process improvement/design for my line of work.
I spent a couple of years self employed before changing career and starting my current line of work, so am used to being in charge (if only for myself). In my first role in this career I was lucky enough to work for a couple of bad bosses. So when things started to fall apart and they were replaced, I ended up pitching in with the new head of dept (both my boss and head of dept went together, the boss didn't get filled for over a year) to get things back on track, even having to stand in for them on a couple of occasions. I like organising people, problem solving and so then ended up as a bit of a roving troubleshooter.
I then moved to my current employer, the new head of dept came soon after. We had to grow things from the ground up. I ended up organising the new recruits, setting up new processes etc and went for the job of their manager as soon as it came up.
The people side has been hard graft, a steep learning curve, to be honest, but very satisfying.
I spent a couple of years self employed before changing career and starting my current line of work, so am used to being in charge (if only for myself). In my first role in this career I was lucky enough to work for a couple of bad bosses. So when things started to fall apart and they were replaced, I ended up pitching in with the new head of dept (both my boss and head of dept went together, the boss didn't get filled for over a year) to get things back on track, even having to stand in for them on a couple of occasions. I like organising people, problem solving and so then ended up as a bit of a roving troubleshooter.
I then moved to my current employer, the new head of dept came soon after. We had to grow things from the ground up. I ended up organising the new recruits, setting up new processes etc and went for the job of their manager as soon as it came up.
The people side has been hard graft, a steep learning curve, to be honest, but very satisfying.
Edited by oldbanger on Thursday 26th June 20:46
I'm not sure I would ever have felt ready to step in to a management role.
I had becoming increasingly capable at analtyics, resulting in supporting bigger projects, larger scale opportunities, and to the point that I made significant commercial decisions on legacy projects. I informally led multi-disciplinary teams.
I didn't appreciate I was ready for a management role until I was offered one and it put a huge grin on my face. It's not been an easy transition from essentially being an individual contributor and very much a do-er, to having to motivate/inspire and encourage others to 'do' on my behalf. But it's pretty rewarding to see changes to the business (that work!) that are a result of my decisions.
I had becoming increasingly capable at analtyics, resulting in supporting bigger projects, larger scale opportunities, and to the point that I made significant commercial decisions on legacy projects. I informally led multi-disciplinary teams.
I didn't appreciate I was ready for a management role until I was offered one and it put a huge grin on my face. It's not been an easy transition from essentially being an individual contributor and very much a do-er, to having to motivate/inspire and encourage others to 'do' on my behalf. But it's pretty rewarding to see changes to the business (that work!) that are a result of my decisions.
Martin_M said:
Interestingly, whilst I enjoy earning more money, I think I was probably happiest in my unpromoted post - I wonder if that's typical for many people who are promoted. A lot of my friends feel the same.
In some ways yes, mostly less pressure. However I want to have a hand on the tiller, it gives me more satisfaction to have the ability to do that than be a drone, even a valued one. I don't mean to get my own way all the time either, after all I am wrong just as often as anyone. I think to have oversight of an entire function or dept would be even more satisfying, but so far I'm very grateful to have my team.I moved up to management because I wanted to change and improve the way things were done in the company. What I didn't consider at the time was the actual person management side of things. For me, even after 30 years in management this is still the thing that needs constant work. Of course it gets easier/you get better with experience, however it never stays the same due to changing conditions/company/staff. It's quite rare to see a good person manager, most managers think it's about distributing/managing the workload, not actually taking the care and time to ensure the staff are capable/knowledgeable/motivated enough so they are empowered to do their job effectively. As a manager your only as good as your weakest team member.
The football analogy above is very good
The football analogy above is very good
P-Jay said:
When? When I wanted to earn more money and stop doing 'hands on' stuff.
You have to keep in mind that 'Management' shouldn't be just something you're rewarded with when you get really good at your job, it's a completely different role IMO although in 90% of cases IMO that's exactly what happens - it seems a uniquely British thing to me, but I've worked for some terrible managers over the years who were brilliant Reps, Engineers, Accountants etc who saw 'management' as a pat on the back for being so good and used it to polish their ego whilst the whole place fell about their ears.
People management isn't about telling people what to do, or telling them off when they don't - that's HR's job - it's all about motivation.
Very narrow view of management. It's about making the most of the resources available to you to achieve the goals you are set. Sounds like you abdicate doing the tough bits.You have to keep in mind that 'Management' shouldn't be just something you're rewarded with when you get really good at your job, it's a completely different role IMO although in 90% of cases IMO that's exactly what happens - it seems a uniquely British thing to me, but I've worked for some terrible managers over the years who were brilliant Reps, Engineers, Accountants etc who saw 'management' as a pat on the back for being so good and used it to polish their ego whilst the whole place fell about their ears.
People management isn't about telling people what to do, or telling them off when they don't - that's HR's job - it's all about motivation.
Management is difficult. It ranges from being a best friend to being the person who gives them (at the time) some of the worst news in the world. At the end of the day there's no formula, you have to work out what works for you. My goal is to get really good guys, who know their s
t and then get the hell out of their way. They are the experts not you - don;t ever forget that.
It's not that I don't manage them it's that I try and build their confidence - make then stand up and be very confident in their abilities (because if I didn't believe in them I wouldn't have hired them) and then from that constant backing I try and allow them to flourish. I don;t micro-manage and I expect them to work hard but also to have plenty of down-time when things are quiet.
If you believe in people, don't ever throw them under the bus for a short term solution...then you'll be fine.
t and then get the hell out of their way. They are the experts not you - don;t ever forget that.It's not that I don't manage them it's that I try and build their confidence - make then stand up and be very confident in their abilities (because if I didn't believe in them I wouldn't have hired them) and then from that constant backing I try and allow them to flourish. I don;t micro-manage and I expect them to work hard but also to have plenty of down-time when things are quiet.
If you believe in people, don't ever throw them under the bus for a short term solution...then you'll be fine.
The two things I'm struggling to get over are
- Not been part of the banter anymore. It's a big part of dealing with the job and I will be going from close working relationships and being able to sound off about various things to a trusted workmate to working predominately alone.
- Dealing with and implementing orders from above that I don't agree with.
I'm aware that these are part of moving up the ladder but they are two sticking points I need to get over.
- Not been part of the banter anymore. It's a big part of dealing with the job and I will be going from close working relationships and being able to sound off about various things to a trusted workmate to working predominately alone.
- Dealing with and implementing orders from above that I don't agree with.
I'm aware that these are part of moving up the ladder but they are two sticking points I need to get over.
It's not clear in your OP if you are moving up the ladder at your current company, or planning to switch to a different company.
If you are being promoted at your existing company, then being your former peers boss usually adds complication. Not insurmountable but you need to thing about how you start things off in the right direction.
If you are being promoted at your existing company, then being your former peers boss usually adds complication. Not insurmountable but you need to thing about how you start things off in the right direction.
juice said:
Management is difficult. It ranges from being a best friend to being the person who gives them (at the time) some of the worst news in the world. At the end of the day there's no formula, you have to work out what works for you. My goal is to get really good guys, who know their st and then get the hell out of their way. They are the experts not you - don;t ever forget that.
It's not that I don't manage them it's that I try and build their confidence - make then stand up and be very confident in their abilities (because if I didn't believe in them I wouldn't have hired them) and then from that constant backing I try and allow them to flourish. I don;t micro-manage and I expect them to work hard but also to have plenty of down-time when things are quiet.
If you believe in people, don't ever throw them under the bus for a short term solution...then you'll be fine.
I'm currently going through applying for my first Management role with my current employers, and if I get it thats the advice I hope to follow. So thankyou for that. I've not been with the company long and the lads on the shop floor know a lot more about the process than I ever will (lots of our guys have been here 25+ years). So telling them how do to their jobs won't go down that well. However doing as you suggest of coaching and encouraging feels like it will work.t and then get the hell out of their way. They are the experts not you - don;t ever forget that.It's not that I don't manage them it's that I try and build their confidence - make then stand up and be very confident in their abilities (because if I didn't believe in them I wouldn't have hired them) and then from that constant backing I try and allow them to flourish. I don;t micro-manage and I expect them to work hard but also to have plenty of down-time when things are quiet.
If you believe in people, don't ever throw them under the bus for a short term solution...then you'll be fine.
I think if you do decide to take the step up, you need to have your own management style.
I am a hand around the shoulder and motivator type. I would never be comfortable just barking orders at people, I like to explain why I am getting them to do what they're doing. I have really had to fight against my boss as he was adamant that I should just be like him which, in essence, is like a tyrant!
You'll soon find out if you're cut out for it which I suspect you are if you are thinking about it carefully. Some of the worst managers I've worked with are the ones that just wanted to be managers but didn't actually have the people skills (or actual ability) to do the role.
If you do make the step up, ease yourself in gently and over time you'll find out what works best for you. You'll no doubt have to deal with a few pain in the arse colleagues at first but as new people join the business they will see you as a manager, not one of them that was lucky and got promoted.
I am a hand around the shoulder and motivator type. I would never be comfortable just barking orders at people, I like to explain why I am getting them to do what they're doing. I have really had to fight against my boss as he was adamant that I should just be like him which, in essence, is like a tyrant!
You'll soon find out if you're cut out for it which I suspect you are if you are thinking about it carefully. Some of the worst managers I've worked with are the ones that just wanted to be managers but didn't actually have the people skills (or actual ability) to do the role.
If you do make the step up, ease yourself in gently and over time you'll find out what works best for you. You'll no doubt have to deal with a few pain in the arse colleagues at first but as new people join the business they will see you as a manager, not one of them that was lucky and got promoted.
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