Gross Misconduct Question
Discussion
Hi,
My sister has been beckoned to a hearing with her employer to which reading the letter they are trying to dismiss her on the grounds of gross misconduct.
She has a flawless 3 year employment with them with no complaints so far...
She was absent from work (annual leave) so her boss stepped in to cover, a client then said to the boss that my sister was setting up her own company and was trying to steal clients to which now she has been summoned to this hearing.
I've told her to remain calm and ask for proof to which they're won't be any as my sister has not done any of this but we believe the person doing the discrediting is after taking the job if she successfully gets her sacked.
With no proof, just hearsay, then surely it's a non starter? Her boss is a bit power mental when it comes to contracts etc but surely she should just have had a word for a start. I did say that if they dismiss her it should be a field day for a solicitor and she would win the case hands down.
Thoughts on how to deal with this?
I've said to remain calm, ask for proof, state that she's never had any form of disciplinary whatsoever in her career, and flatly deny any wrongdoing.
My sister has been beckoned to a hearing with her employer to which reading the letter they are trying to dismiss her on the grounds of gross misconduct.
She has a flawless 3 year employment with them with no complaints so far...
She was absent from work (annual leave) so her boss stepped in to cover, a client then said to the boss that my sister was setting up her own company and was trying to steal clients to which now she has been summoned to this hearing.
I've told her to remain calm and ask for proof to which they're won't be any as my sister has not done any of this but we believe the person doing the discrediting is after taking the job if she successfully gets her sacked.
With no proof, just hearsay, then surely it's a non starter? Her boss is a bit power mental when it comes to contracts etc but surely she should just have had a word for a start. I did say that if they dismiss her it should be a field day for a solicitor and she would win the case hands down.
Thoughts on how to deal with this?
I've said to remain calm, ask for proof, state that she's never had any form of disciplinary whatsoever in her career, and flatly deny any wrongdoing.
The onus is on the company to prove that your sister has done or is doing this.
If they can provide none and still sack her, then your sister has a case for unfair dismissal.
The suggestions you have made to her are sound. The only thing I would add is that she does not offer the theory that the client is looking to nab her job.
If they can provide none and still sack her, then your sister has a case for unfair dismissal.
The suggestions you have made to her are sound. The only thing I would add is that she does not offer the theory that the client is looking to nab her job.
Make sure your sister (as she is entitled to) takes a witness into the meeting with her.
If she has a phone that will record then take that in too - I believe it is OK to do this providing it is only used to make a transcript of the meeting. Could be handy if any slander is bandied about.
If she has a phone that will record then take that in too - I believe it is OK to do this providing it is only used to make a transcript of the meeting. Could be handy if any slander is bandied about.
Surely there is evidence, you have already said that a client has come forwards to her boss to say that was what she has been doing?
Meanwhile are you saying that it's the client who wants her job?
As for this stuff about a contract amendment, it's could be in her contract right now, hence the disciplinary.
Meanwhile are you saying that it's the client who wants her job?
As for this stuff about a contract amendment, it's could be in her contract right now, hence the disciplinary.
Not sure if it's the same-but I run a hair/beauty business & know the usual contracts fairly well.
As the poster above said, ask if there are any restrictive covenants in her present contract, if there isn't there is the bargaining chip of offering to put one in to restore faith.
If there already is, she simply needs to point out that she has signed to those terms & intends to follow them.
I do have some sympathy with her boss as poaching can be incredibly disruptive to the business but that's part of the game I suppose, disruption or not he still needs to follow the rules of grievance procedures.
As the poster above said, ask if there are any restrictive covenants in her present contract, if there isn't there is the bargaining chip of offering to put one in to restore faith.
If there already is, she simply needs to point out that she has signed to those terms & intends to follow them.
I do have some sympathy with her boss as poaching can be incredibly disruptive to the business but that's part of the game I suppose, disruption or not he still needs to follow the rules of grievance procedures.
Grumfutock said:
And the OP has also already said that his sister didnt do any of this.
"told her to remain calm and ask for proof to which they're won't be any as my sister has not done any of this".
Which bit are you struggling to believe?
Are you directing that at me?"told her to remain calm and ask for proof to which they're won't be any as my sister has not done any of this".
Which bit are you struggling to believe?
I was simply pointing out inconsistencies, a client would appear to have made a complaint or comment, that is evidence. It may not the true, they may have been making it up, it could be a misunderstanding but it doesn't stop it being evidence.
HenryJM said:
Are you directing that at me?
I was simply pointing out inconsistencies, a client would appear to have made a complaint or comment, that is evidence. It may not the true, they may have been making it up, it could be a misunderstanding but it doesn't stop it being evidence.
I would suggest that the client telling the boss is not evidence but hearsay, unless backed up with some thing like a contract offer or proposal? Maybe wrong but it doesnt sound like evidence to me, rather gossip.I was simply pointing out inconsistencies, a client would appear to have made a complaint or comment, that is evidence. It may not the true, they may have been making it up, it could be a misunderstanding but it doesn't stop it being evidence.
Grumfutock said:
HenryJM said:
Are you directing that at me?
I was simply pointing out inconsistencies, a client would appear to have made a complaint or comment, that is evidence. It may not the true, they may have been making it up, it could be a misunderstanding but it doesn't stop it being evidence.
I would suggest that the client telling the boss is not evidence but hearsay, unless backed up with some thing like a contract offer or proposal? Maybe wrong but it doesnt sound like evidence to me, rather gossip.I was simply pointing out inconsistencies, a client would appear to have made a complaint or comment, that is evidence. It may not the true, they may have been making it up, it could be a misunderstanding but it doesn't stop it being evidence.
JQ said:
Grumfutock said:
HenryJM said:
Are you directing that at me?
I was simply pointing out inconsistencies, a client would appear to have made a complaint or comment, that is evidence. It may not the true, they may have been making it up, it could be a misunderstanding but it doesn't stop it being evidence.
I would suggest that the client telling the boss is not evidence but hearsay, unless backed up with some thing like a contract offer or proposal? Maybe wrong but it doesnt sound like evidence to me, rather gossip.I was simply pointing out inconsistencies, a client would appear to have made a complaint or comment, that is evidence. It may not the true, they may have been making it up, it could be a misunderstanding but it doesn't stop it being evidence.
So if someone went to my boss and said MajorProblem is setting up a company and he's stealing all your clients I'd be on a gross misconduct charge first thing Monday morning?
I'd expect my boss to have me in for a chat, nothing could be proved as no evidence and we would come to the agreement of it all being bowlocks.
I suppose my boss is not some megalomaniac loony bin though.
I'd expect my boss to have me in for a chat, nothing could be proved as no evidence and we would come to the agreement of it all being bowlocks.
I suppose my boss is not some megalomaniac loony bin though.
This is a disciplinary, anything is evidence that they want to treat as evidence, it's not a court. It only becomes legal if they dismiss and if they are taken to tribunal and even then the criteria for something being admissible as evidence is far looser than elsewhere in the legal system.
MajorProblem said:
So are you saying you could dismiss someone on grounds of gross misconduct based on a rumour?
Essentially yes, you could but whether you'd lose if taken to tribunal becomes the question. But it's a retrospective process, they call her to a disciplinary, if they feel that the evidence is enough to dismiss then they will dismiss. Then you can choose to go to tribunal some months later and it will all get reviewed.MajorProblem said:
So are you saying you could dismiss someone on grounds of gross misconduct based on a rumour?
I don't understand, is the complaint coming direct from a direct client of her employer? If it is, it's not a rumour, it's a direct accusation which requires a formal response. They've not dismissed your sister, they are investigating an accusation.Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff