Kyoto - hang on a minute...
Discussion
Everyone loves to slate the US for not 'signing up to' the Kyoto agreement. Ooh the naughty bad Americans!
But hang on - China and India weren't included in the Kyoto deal in the first place, and still may not be because 'it might damage their economies'.
Diddums. What about OUR friggin' economies then?
NB Odd that the lentilists seem to have no opinion on these massive polluters.
But hang on - China and India weren't included in the Kyoto deal in the first place, and still may not be because 'it might damage their economies'.
Diddums. What about OUR friggin' economies then?
NB Odd that the lentilists seem to have no opinion on these massive polluters.
An opinion I heard on R5 this morning was that if we gave moral leadership in reducing CO2 emissions then developing countries would follow our lead 
Is it just me, or is that naivity of the highest order?
It's perfectly obvious that the world will still need things manufacturing, whether we do it or not. To be honest when the likes of India and China do industrialise properly then they will put even the US in the shade, so it doesn't really matter what we do.
Strangely my opinion on Kyoto didn't go down too well on an Environmental Science course at Uni
Is it just me, or is that naivity of the highest order?
It's perfectly obvious that the world will still need things manufacturing, whether we do it or not. To be honest when the likes of India and China do industrialise properly then they will put even the US in the shade, so it doesn't really matter what we do.
Strangely my opinion on Kyoto didn't go down too well on an Environmental Science course at Uni
Plotloss said:What a load of bollocks, you'll be telling me they don't get their rice from supermarkets next
I would suggest that the reason that China arent included is that 90% of the country cook on wood burning stoves...
If you stopped them doing that then they would probably die...
Incorrigible said:
I would suggest that the reason that China arent included is that 90% of the country cook on wood burning stoves...
If you stopped them doing that then they would probably die...
What a load of bollocks, you'll be telling me they don't get their rice from supermarkets next
Have you been to China? it's a seriously big and lumpy place where huge areas are without electrtickery or gas,
The Kyoto Protocol is based on junk science, and it's estimated it will cost $75 trillion to implement, and after this vast expenditure its impact will be - at best - to offset 'global warming' over the next 100 years or so by one twentieth of a degree. In other words, it's totally pointless anyway even if emissions controls could work, which they can't as carbon dioxide levels are affected by temperature and not the other way round.
In an unusual act of balance, the BBC have published a withering debunk of Kyoto and the man-made global warming claptrap that lit the blue touchpaper. Some of the juicy extracts include
"Global warming is indeed a scam, perpetrated by scientists with vested interests, but in need of crash courses in geology, logic and the philosophy of science"
and
"It provides the media with a new scare story, which has been picked up by the focus groups and turned into the new religion, offering us hell if we don't all change our ways. However, believing in anthropogenic global warming is not enough, but that is all it can offer."
with
"We know from the geological (and archaeological) record that weather variations and extremes are the norm. Such extremes occur gradually and rapidly, and obviously were not human-induced (anthropogenic). How then can they represent a threat greater than that of terrorism, as the UK's chief scientist, Professor Sir David King, maintains, except to minds unwilling to accept the inevitability of planetary change?"
The rest can be found at Kyoto and GWT
>> Edited by turbobloke on Wednesday 8th December 16:51
In an unusual act of balance, the BBC have published a withering debunk of Kyoto and the man-made global warming claptrap that lit the blue touchpaper. Some of the juicy extracts include
"Global warming is indeed a scam, perpetrated by scientists with vested interests, but in need of crash courses in geology, logic and the philosophy of science"
and
"It provides the media with a new scare story, which has been picked up by the focus groups and turned into the new religion, offering us hell if we don't all change our ways. However, believing in anthropogenic global warming is not enough, but that is all it can offer."
with
"We know from the geological (and archaeological) record that weather variations and extremes are the norm. Such extremes occur gradually and rapidly, and obviously were not human-induced (anthropogenic). How then can they represent a threat greater than that of terrorism, as the UK's chief scientist, Professor Sir David King, maintains, except to minds unwilling to accept the inevitability of planetary change?"
The rest can be found at Kyoto and GWT
>> Edited by turbobloke on Wednesday 8th December 16:51
one interesting point made by researchers in Sweden:
Plants grown in an atmosphere with increased levels of CO2 grown much more quickly than those in 'standard' CO2 levels.
The plants which grew faster then produced far more oxygen (sorry, i've lost the report) than those grown in the lower level of CO2.
The research team also found that the so-called 'global warming' is such a small amount that it could even be put down to inaccuracies in early testing devices. They also added that the earth's temperature can vary by several degrees with little or no effect on the organisms living on it.
of course Kyoto glosses over this and the lentilists use it as an excuse to attack cars. which demeans the whole thing somewhat
Plants grown in an atmosphere with increased levels of CO2 grown much more quickly than those in 'standard' CO2 levels.
The plants which grew faster then produced far more oxygen (sorry, i've lost the report) than those grown in the lower level of CO2.
The research team also found that the so-called 'global warming' is such a small amount that it could even be put down to inaccuracies in early testing devices. They also added that the earth's temperature can vary by several degrees with little or no effect on the organisms living on it.
of course Kyoto glosses over this and the lentilists use it as an excuse to attack cars. which demeans the whole thing somewhat
Plotloss said:
You fool, they dont cook rice, they get it from the Chinese.
They are everywhere out there...
PMSL
Reminds me of the time I rang the local take-away and said "Hello, I'd like to order some chinese....."
My mates were pissng themselves and I just didn't understand what they were laughing at....
Then the penny dropped.
Fair play to the chinese guy, there's no end of sarcastic retorts he could've answered with.
"There's 8 of us here, how many do you want?"
or
"You've come to the right place..."
or
"That's all we serve..."
Is sarcasm prevalent in Asian culture? Curious...
Gazboy said:
As they are developing countries, they were given a tempory exclusion. The yanks still pump out 20% of the worlds shit btw, and are the biggest polluters on earth. iirc the Chinease were a fair way down the list (could be wrong though).
The Chinese are having an industrial revolution as we speak - they've bought up all the quotas of next year's steel already.
Just a few of quotes to help the Easter eggs digest
August 2004
May 2004
March 2005
August 2004
Dr Peter Kaznacheev of the Institute for Economic Analysis in Moscow said:
In the history of civilization, climate optimums are associated more with prosperity and progress, ice ages with hardships and catastrophes. The changing nature of our planet means we could start experiencing lower temperatures tomorrow. Today’s temperatures are not the highest in the history of the earth, mounting evidence suggests temperature variations cannot be explained by variations in CO2 concentrations
May 2004
Neil Collins in the Wall Street Journal said:
In fact, as the greens never admit, we are nowhere near an environmental catastrophe. Water and air in Europe are cleaner than they have been for centuries. Africa's deserts are not encroaching, but retreating. The Maldives, one of the first places due to 'disappear' under rising sea levels, are actually slightly higher out of the water than they were 30 years ago
March 2005
Franklin Cudjoe GTA Representative in Ghana said:
We do not need any alarmist theories clouded in climate control jargons like the UN style adaptation to delay us. In fact, previous experiences with whatever form of foreign aid resonates with Patrick Jake O’Rourke’s assertion that “giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys”. This is what ‘adaptation’ under the Kyoto Protocol will do to governments in poor countries.
turbobloke said:
In fact, as the greens never admit, we are nowhere near an environmental catastrophe. Water and air in Europe are cleaner than they have been for centuries. Africa's deserts are not encroaching, but retreating. The Maldives, one of the first places due to 'disappear' under rising sea levels, are actually slightly higher out of the water than they were 30 years ago
That part is true, part of the process of economic growth is that people become less tolerant of pollution-thus counter intuitively economic growth can lead to less pollution at the local level.
JagLover said:
Neil Collins in the Wall Street Journal said:
In fact, as the greens never admit, we are nowhere near an environmental catastrophe. Water and air in Europe are cleaner than they have been for centuries. Africa's deserts are not encroaching, but retreating. The Maldives, one of the first places due to 'disappear' under rising sea levels, are actually slightly higher out of the water than they were 30 years ago
That part is true, part of the process of economic growth is that people become less tolerant of pollution-thus counter intuitively economic growth can lead to less pollution at the local level.
Exactly, you aren't going to give a toss about the environment if you are struggling to put food on the table. This concern with the environment is a symptom of the comparative ease of Western life these days, not suprisingly governments love it as it gives them an excuse for lots of lovely "environmental" taxes.
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