Going it alone
Discussion
Hello All,
I've posted on here a few times - fairly specific business questions but have a fairly general question to ask now.
I'm 31, father of 3 young children, ages 6, 5 and 4 (next week) and by better half doesn't work at the moment due to wanting to spend time with the kids before they started school. I work as a estimator within the construction industry working for one of the top 15 contractors.
My wife stopped working when our youngest was born in 2010 and things have been quite tight since, albeit we've done ok and have coped without any loans, borrows, overdrafts etc. I'd always assumed up until a couple of years ago that the wife would go back to work though and as such that come September when the youngest started school that her former career as a social worker would provide an extra £25-30k a year to the family pot. This however isn't the case. My wife is Mother Teresa in disguise and wants to help the world and her chose way to do it is by becoming a foster carer. I'm totally ok with this, I know some wouldn't be, and i'm obviously applying to do so as part of the process. She wants to do it and i'm supporting her with that choice and we're hopefully going to be caring for some young children/babies (i.e younger than our youngest) very soon. Financially, we can cope with her not going back to work.
HOWEVER, I say we can cope. We can cope - that's about it. There's very little to put into savings for when the kids want to go to uni etc.
This is where my plan comes in.
I've done the maths and have done plenty of market research and there appears to be opportunities for folk like me to establish myself as an estimating practice, providing estimating support to companies that are too busy already, or can't afford a full time estimator of their own. I've met with 2 companies who have said to let them know when i'm ready and they will consider me for work.
So, all set. I've got quotes for software, office rentals, I've sat and looked at the money scenarios with my Dad (who is an accountant), bought domain names etc.
But my last hurdle is - what if it doesn't work!?
Surely all say this when setting up on their own - I just feel very vulnerable given that my income is our only income.
Couple of points to add are:
1. My current salary is decent but recruiters are offering me (on a permanent basis) circa £10-15k a year more at the moment. So if my idea goes wrong, surely I just speak to one of those and still end up with more than i'm on now.
2. Speaking with a Senior colleague openly about my idea, he's advised what another Senior member of staff may currently earn in a position that I could achieve in around 5-10 yrs time. After tax etc, it'll work out an extra £300 or so per month in my pocket. Whereas my current idea could see an extra £1500 per month in my pocket by Xmas.
3. If it goes wrong, I've got around 1 months salary stashed to play with.
4. 2 firms have offered me long term freelance work - could be a good vehicle to do for 12 months to get some cash my way to buy a better office, better computer, printer etc - rather than shoestring it now.
5. If I hold off until Jan 2016, I get a payout of circa £6k from my current employer - nice but I can cover this very quickly doing what I want to do soonish.
6. Initial catalyst for this is the time i'm spending away from my family. I put my kids to bed one Sunday evening a few weeks back at 7.30pm and didn't see them until 7am the next Saturday - and that's living at home all but one night. I may as well get a job in London on £500 a day on that basis! My original commute was 20 mins away but a JV has forced me to 1 hr 20 mins away - so that's an extra 10 hrs a week driving - like working a Saturday - for free!
7. Noting point 6 above - I can get the same money as i'm on now, even a few £k more, a lot closer to home if I don't end up having the balls to do what i'm proposing! But my idea is an office 4 miles from home, at my pace, for a lot more per month.
So, question is - am I doing the right thing? Seems a no brainer but can't help but feel there's a catch!
Sorry for the long post btw - just want some of your experiences to assist me in finalising what i'm to do!
Simon
I've posted on here a few times - fairly specific business questions but have a fairly general question to ask now.
I'm 31, father of 3 young children, ages 6, 5 and 4 (next week) and by better half doesn't work at the moment due to wanting to spend time with the kids before they started school. I work as a estimator within the construction industry working for one of the top 15 contractors.
My wife stopped working when our youngest was born in 2010 and things have been quite tight since, albeit we've done ok and have coped without any loans, borrows, overdrafts etc. I'd always assumed up until a couple of years ago that the wife would go back to work though and as such that come September when the youngest started school that her former career as a social worker would provide an extra £25-30k a year to the family pot. This however isn't the case. My wife is Mother Teresa in disguise and wants to help the world and her chose way to do it is by becoming a foster carer. I'm totally ok with this, I know some wouldn't be, and i'm obviously applying to do so as part of the process. She wants to do it and i'm supporting her with that choice and we're hopefully going to be caring for some young children/babies (i.e younger than our youngest) very soon. Financially, we can cope with her not going back to work.
HOWEVER, I say we can cope. We can cope - that's about it. There's very little to put into savings for when the kids want to go to uni etc.
This is where my plan comes in.
I've done the maths and have done plenty of market research and there appears to be opportunities for folk like me to establish myself as an estimating practice, providing estimating support to companies that are too busy already, or can't afford a full time estimator of their own. I've met with 2 companies who have said to let them know when i'm ready and they will consider me for work.
So, all set. I've got quotes for software, office rentals, I've sat and looked at the money scenarios with my Dad (who is an accountant), bought domain names etc.
But my last hurdle is - what if it doesn't work!?
Surely all say this when setting up on their own - I just feel very vulnerable given that my income is our only income.
Couple of points to add are:
1. My current salary is decent but recruiters are offering me (on a permanent basis) circa £10-15k a year more at the moment. So if my idea goes wrong, surely I just speak to one of those and still end up with more than i'm on now.
2. Speaking with a Senior colleague openly about my idea, he's advised what another Senior member of staff may currently earn in a position that I could achieve in around 5-10 yrs time. After tax etc, it'll work out an extra £300 or so per month in my pocket. Whereas my current idea could see an extra £1500 per month in my pocket by Xmas.
3. If it goes wrong, I've got around 1 months salary stashed to play with.
4. 2 firms have offered me long term freelance work - could be a good vehicle to do for 12 months to get some cash my way to buy a better office, better computer, printer etc - rather than shoestring it now.
5. If I hold off until Jan 2016, I get a payout of circa £6k from my current employer - nice but I can cover this very quickly doing what I want to do soonish.
6. Initial catalyst for this is the time i'm spending away from my family. I put my kids to bed one Sunday evening a few weeks back at 7.30pm and didn't see them until 7am the next Saturday - and that's living at home all but one night. I may as well get a job in London on £500 a day on that basis! My original commute was 20 mins away but a JV has forced me to 1 hr 20 mins away - so that's an extra 10 hrs a week driving - like working a Saturday - for free!
7. Noting point 6 above - I can get the same money as i'm on now, even a few £k more, a lot closer to home if I don't end up having the balls to do what i'm proposing! But my idea is an office 4 miles from home, at my pace, for a lot more per month.
So, question is - am I doing the right thing? Seems a no brainer but can't help but feel there's a catch!
Sorry for the long post btw - just want some of your experiences to assist me in finalising what i'm to do!
Simon
Sounds like you have good contacts and the means with which to forge your way and build a client base, plus a possible fall back with long term contracting if needed. Sounds pretty good. I'd probably want to firm up some business before taking the plunge but appreciate this is not easy or possible (whilst employed) especially when staying in the industry.
If you're confident you can weather a few slow months as you get going and can rely on your backup that's as good a green light as you need. Assuming you get going well and can pay the bills the only catch is holiday; you may not have one for a while unless you hit the ground at a sprint and can both afford the time and money required.
Good luck.
If you're confident you can weather a few slow months as you get going and can rely on your backup that's as good a green light as you need. Assuming you get going well and can pay the bills the only catch is holiday; you may not have one for a while unless you hit the ground at a sprint and can both afford the time and money required.
Good luck.
Thanks ASK1974.
Yeah, I've done the maths based very much on what I consider to be a worse case scenario - that being working 30 weeks a year. For someone who's generally very busy, I can't imagine having 22 weeks a year off!
I've chatted to about 4 or 5 chaps who have already done it and one started out in July 2012. He's only had time off for holidays and school sports days etc - no 'down time' other than that. Similarly, spoke to a chap who set up last November and he's literally only had 5 days off since (plus weekends) - this being the big bank hols around Xmas and Easter - he generally worked straight through Christmas! No ideal but does show there is stuff out there.
I'm just in a tricky position at the moment in that i'd love to push my contacts until one turns round and says 'yes, we'll have you 3 days a week for 6 months initially' or whatever - but it's a bit of a game of Russian roulette. They won't commit until I will - plus as I said, it's quite subjective as to what they literally have in requiring a price at any given time. Following PQQ submissions, tenders land very sporadically which will benefit me long-term but doesn't help in getting folk to commit now. Most don't know what they will have in July week 2 or 3, never mind October/November time!
I'm a tad worried that those I've contacted and spoken to over the last month will think I've gone cold on them if I don't press more - but as stated above, this is why.
Time is quite an important and difficult factor short-term. I go on hols end of August so am not doing it before then - 2 weeks 'unpaid' if I was working for myself, plus my company car will safely get me on hols to the South of France, whereas the old banger that I've looked at to get me by for the first few months probably won't! So that means a return to work 1st September, plus 4 weeks notice to work etc. Unless I can bag myself some decent payment terms, my first invoices are going to come payable very much into the Xmas shopping period/expensive time of the year! I'm quite tempted to leave it until Jan but then do you wait for Easter to pass, then do you wait for summer hols etc etc - never seems to be the perfect time of year to do it.
Yeah, I've done the maths based very much on what I consider to be a worse case scenario - that being working 30 weeks a year. For someone who's generally very busy, I can't imagine having 22 weeks a year off!
I've chatted to about 4 or 5 chaps who have already done it and one started out in July 2012. He's only had time off for holidays and school sports days etc - no 'down time' other than that. Similarly, spoke to a chap who set up last November and he's literally only had 5 days off since (plus weekends) - this being the big bank hols around Xmas and Easter - he generally worked straight through Christmas! No ideal but does show there is stuff out there.
I'm just in a tricky position at the moment in that i'd love to push my contacts until one turns round and says 'yes, we'll have you 3 days a week for 6 months initially' or whatever - but it's a bit of a game of Russian roulette. They won't commit until I will - plus as I said, it's quite subjective as to what they literally have in requiring a price at any given time. Following PQQ submissions, tenders land very sporadically which will benefit me long-term but doesn't help in getting folk to commit now. Most don't know what they will have in July week 2 or 3, never mind October/November time!
I'm a tad worried that those I've contacted and spoken to over the last month will think I've gone cold on them if I don't press more - but as stated above, this is why.
Time is quite an important and difficult factor short-term. I go on hols end of August so am not doing it before then - 2 weeks 'unpaid' if I was working for myself, plus my company car will safely get me on hols to the South of France, whereas the old banger that I've looked at to get me by for the first few months probably won't! So that means a return to work 1st September, plus 4 weeks notice to work etc. Unless I can bag myself some decent payment terms, my first invoices are going to come payable very much into the Xmas shopping period/expensive time of the year! I'm quite tempted to leave it until Jan but then do you wait for Easter to pass, then do you wait for summer hols etc etc - never seems to be the perfect time of year to do it.
There is never a perfect time to do it - and there will come a point when you think it's not working at all because you can't see any new jobs on the horizon - but these are temporary glitches.
If you're going to succeed, you have to start and put all your effort into it, particularly chasing the job after the job you're doing after the current one.
It's scary - but SO satisfying when it starts to come good. Make sure your finances are in order so you have a bit of a safety net available (I'd recommend 3-6 months really), then go for it before you find yourself celebrating another 12 months somewhere you don't want to be.
If you're going to succeed, you have to start and put all your effort into it, particularly chasing the job after the job you're doing after the current one.
It's scary - but SO satisfying when it starts to come good. Make sure your finances are in order so you have a bit of a safety net available (I'd recommend 3-6 months really), then go for it before you find yourself celebrating another 12 months somewhere you don't want to be.
It's easier said than done, but what's the worst that really happens?
It doesn't work out, you get a job closer to home on a bit more money = better off all round
It doesn't work out, you get your old job back = no worse off
It does work out, you make the same as you do now = better off
It does work out, you make loads of money and you see your family more = way better off
You have a months wages covered too which makes it even easier, and very worst case scenario is that your wife has to suck it up and go back to work for a bit.
All round you don't lose your house and the world isn't going to end.
However I would ensure that you have your website up, paperwork, software, computers, leads etc and if possible start doing some work in your spare time to start building up the work stream before making the move. But you'll have to make the leap earlier than you'll feel ready.
Like I say though, easier said than done.
It doesn't work out, you get a job closer to home on a bit more money = better off all round
It doesn't work out, you get your old job back = no worse off
It does work out, you make the same as you do now = better off
It does work out, you make loads of money and you see your family more = way better off
You have a months wages covered too which makes it even easier, and very worst case scenario is that your wife has to suck it up and go back to work for a bit.
All round you don't lose your house and the world isn't going to end.
However I would ensure that you have your website up, paperwork, software, computers, leads etc and if possible start doing some work in your spare time to start building up the work stream before making the move. But you'll have to make the leap earlier than you'll feel ready.
Like I say though, easier said than done.
Save some more money first, a months pay isn't enough. It takes time to build up revenue and no time to build up costs. I started my business with a working wife who could support us, failing that having enough money to last three months is a minimum IMHO. And one of you first priorities when good money is coming in should be to build that reserve back up to six months.
It's a big step, but one that is generally worth the risk, I would say. But think very carefully indeed about spending money that you don't need to - is an office really necessary, for example? Could you make do with a laptop and a 3G card (or a seat in a cafe with free WiFi)? Every penny you spend out of company funds is an extra penny you have to earn as profit over and above what you will be paying yourself.
Gaspode said:
It's a big step, but one that is generally worth the risk, I would say. But think very carefully indeed about spending money that you don't need to - is an office really necessary, for example? Could you make do with a laptop and a 3G card (or a seat in a cafe with free WiFi)? Every penny you spend out of company funds is an extra penny you have to earn as profit over and above what you will be paying yourself.
Sensible advice, and exactly what I did.Your point 4 seems to be the key one. You have a stepping stone in the form of work, firm it up, and start with that.
HenryJM said:
Save some more money first, a months pay isn't enough. It takes time to build up revenue and no time to build up costs. I started my business with a working wife who could support us, failing that having enough money to last three months is a minimum IMHO. And one of you first priorities when good money is coming in should be to build that reserve back up to six months.
A very valid point. Your going to be going from payroll where the money lands in you account on the same day every month to invoicing and chasing invoices when payment doesn't arrive after 20 or 30 days! Personally I would also watch expenses - both in the business and personally.
Do you need an office? If you are out on site all the time and only doing paper work then could you not work from home (or rent a friend who works spare room)?
I hate it to say it but I would also be talking to my partner about delaying foster care for a year or two. If she was working then the pressure on the new company would be much less (not sure how practical this is though!).
If you dont have any other contingency then I would want more than one months money behind you.
Do you need an office? If you are out on site all the time and only doing paper work then could you not work from home (or rent a friend who works spare room)?
I hate it to say it but I would also be talking to my partner about delaying foster care for a year or two. If she was working then the pressure on the new company would be much less (not sure how practical this is though!).
If you dont have any other contingency then I would want more than one months money behind you.
Thanks all - great responses and massively appreciated.
I do feel like it's a case of do it now otherwise i'll regret it in 5 years when it's worked and i didn't do it sooner.
Interesting points about getting a few months wages behind me first. Not sure how i can do that really as not generating enough excess at the moment. Need to have a think about that one a little bit more.
The fostering would generate an income - nothing major but it all adds up.
As for the office - i've thought that one too. I have thought that if i do it before Xmas, rather than pay for a rented office to be empty over Xmas (assuming i don't get any work during that period), plus to ease early cashflow, i may well work out of my parent's back bedroom. Gives me 3-4 months to generate a bit of cash behind me before spending out £200 a month on rent, plus another £100 or so on elec and phones etc.
We have a spare bedroom at our place but it wouldn't really work with the family being literally in the house. Too much of a distraction, whereas my Mum would leave me to it and my Dad still works so wouldn't be in the house. I've looked at renting a desk pod type thing but due to the nature of my work, i generally have an A1 or A0 drawing open so i need room for a laptop and a decent sized table to spread some plans out on. I've got a friend who runs a small double glazing company who has offered me a 'conservatory' in his former conservatory village for £150 a month but i think an office would suit more - he's been moaning about extremes of hot and cold working from a conservatory!!
Again, thank you all - much appreciated.
I do feel like it's a case of do it now otherwise i'll regret it in 5 years when it's worked and i didn't do it sooner.
Interesting points about getting a few months wages behind me first. Not sure how i can do that really as not generating enough excess at the moment. Need to have a think about that one a little bit more.
The fostering would generate an income - nothing major but it all adds up.
As for the office - i've thought that one too. I have thought that if i do it before Xmas, rather than pay for a rented office to be empty over Xmas (assuming i don't get any work during that period), plus to ease early cashflow, i may well work out of my parent's back bedroom. Gives me 3-4 months to generate a bit of cash behind me before spending out £200 a month on rent, plus another £100 or so on elec and phones etc.
We have a spare bedroom at our place but it wouldn't really work with the family being literally in the house. Too much of a distraction, whereas my Mum would leave me to it and my Dad still works so wouldn't be in the house. I've looked at renting a desk pod type thing but due to the nature of my work, i generally have an A1 or A0 drawing open so i need room for a laptop and a decent sized table to spread some plans out on. I've got a friend who runs a small double glazing company who has offered me a 'conservatory' in his former conservatory village for £150 a month but i think an office would suit more - he's been moaning about extremes of hot and cold working from a conservatory!!
Again, thank you all - much appreciated.
MrSparks said:
It doesn't work out, you get a job closer to home on a bit more money = better off all round
It doesn't work out, you get your old job back = no worse off
It does work out, you make the same as you do now = better off
It does work out, you make loads of money and you see your family more = way better off
Like that. However it goes - i'm in a better situation!It doesn't work out, you get your old job back = no worse off
It does work out, you make the same as you do now = better off
It does work out, you make loads of money and you see your family more = way better off
sider said:
Interesting points about getting a few months wages behind me first. Not sure how i can do that really as not generating enough excess at the moment. Need to have a think about that one a little bit more.
At the risk of saying what has already been said, this really is the big problem. Normal commercial terms would be payment 30 days after invoice and a lot of companies think nothing of stretching that out to 60 and beyond. They say that cash is king, and certainly in the early days it is. If you can only go a month without running out of cash you can't 'go it alone' because you will run out of money before you get enough income.
I think looking into freelance/ self employed/ contracting as a stepping stone? This would (hopefully) give a more regular income source, eg working 2/3/5 days at a firm/company and getting paid via an agency weekly. you would be able to pick up additional work to do in the evenings/ weekends to help get things rolling. would hopefully eliminate the cost of having to look for an office and the contracting route would hopefully give you start for running your own limited company.
I agree with all points previously raised, albeit I speak with the benefit of very baby steps.
The only additional point I would add is in relation to the idea you'll spend more time with the family. Time is more flexible, which presents a whole load of other benefits and freedom (location pliability is also a massive plus if your industry allows), but it's far from more plentiful. It will be 24/7, whether that's doing your primary "work", engaging/tapping up contacts, chasing debts, worrying about the next batch of work, struggling to sleep with a million thoughts firing through your head, excessive pressure and no ability to walk away/take a day off (even those usual downtime weekends) or delegate anything as you are the business.
The good thing is you can, to some degree, flex a lot of these things around your family schedule to allow you any time off when it best fits, rather than when it is enforced. And the best part is the earlier poster is right, there really is no worse off outcome, so approaching it with that mentality you cannot fail.
The only additional point I would add is in relation to the idea you'll spend more time with the family. Time is more flexible, which presents a whole load of other benefits and freedom (location pliability is also a massive plus if your industry allows), but it's far from more plentiful. It will be 24/7, whether that's doing your primary "work", engaging/tapping up contacts, chasing debts, worrying about the next batch of work, struggling to sleep with a million thoughts firing through your head, excessive pressure and no ability to walk away/take a day off (even those usual downtime weekends) or delegate anything as you are the business.
The good thing is you can, to some degree, flex a lot of these things around your family schedule to allow you any time off when it best fits, rather than when it is enforced. And the best part is the earlier poster is right, there really is no worse off outcome, so approaching it with that mentality you cannot fail.
sider said:
As for the office - i've thought that one too. I have thought that if i do it before Xmas, rather than pay for a rented office to be empty over Xmas (assuming i don't get any work during that period), plus to ease early cashflow, i may well work out of my parent's back bedroom. Gives me 3-4 months to generate a bit of cash behind me before spending out £200 a month on rent, plus another £100 or so on elec and phones etc.
Got room for an office pod in your garden? £10k outlay but could borrow it at less than the £300 a month for renting an office and it would provide the separation between work and home with a very short commute. If things change and you have to go back to work you can convert it to a garden pub 
Sorry OP but have you studied how much your wife will earn and the tax breaks - you won't be far off your anticipated earnings if you foster 2
https://www.gov.uk/foster-carers/help-with-the-cos...
https://www.gov.uk/foster-carers/help-with-the-cos...
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