Lorry Drivers Threaten Over SPECS Cameras

[bad company]

This could be interesting - http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/Lorry-Drivers-Threat...

[surveyor]

I can see why they are feeling upset. 40 mph is going to really slow them down, and will mess up the traffic flow quite nicely....

[bad company]

surveyor said:

I can see why they are feeling upset. 40 mph is going to really slow them down, and will mess up the traffic flow quite nicely....

If they can stop the SPECS cameras being turned on I wish them the best of luck.

[TheEnd]

I can see some of the comments come from people not really paying attention.
It appears that other vehicles can drive faster, but HGVs need to stick to 40, and it seems that other people haven't considered the fact that having to get around countless wagons running slower is going to cause congestion.

Assuming it is only 40 for trucks, and others can go faster, I can't see any benefit to anyone.

[b0rk]

Large sections of the route are single carriageway so on the basis nobody will overtake inside a SPEC's zone the new average route speed will become 50mph down from 60mph.

LGV drivers have previously won a concession from the Scottish parliament to raise the LGV limit from 40mph to 50mph along the A9/M9 trunk road.

[V8 Fettler]

The real issue is: how can a major trunk road be a single carriageway?

[PanzerCommander]

V8 Fettler said:

The real issue is: how can a major trunk road be a single carriageway?

It was more than likely built in a time when a single carriage way was more than adquate as a trunk road. I'd hazzard a guess that the NIMBYs probably won' let them widen it to a dual carriage way.

[Dairymilk]

Lorry drivers want a 50 limit because they know that their speed will not be enforced in that limit. ACPO guidance is for the 50 limit to be enforced commencing at 57, with HGV governors set for 56 they can drive in a 50 with their foot to the floor and not pick up a speeding ticket.
Fair enough I hear you say! However drivers of other vehicles, usually smaller as it happens, that are observing the limit are complaining that they are being intimidated by tailgating HGVs.
So should the limit be taken up to 60 or dropped to 40?
A lot of care needs to be taken when dealing with lorry drivers and their protests as all may not be quite straight forward as far as their motivation and reasons for the protest are concerned.

Edited to add: they won't go slow for long.

Edited by Dairymilk on Wednesday 2nd July 09:26

[EW109]

As anyone who has driven the A9 north of Perth will attest, the only solution is to dual the whole road as far as Inverness. That, however, would be hugely expensive (although it has been talked about for years).

[All that jazz]

I'm pretty sure the SPECS type are not geared up for issuing fines based on a respective vehicle's speed limit, ie. 40 for a truck in this case. They don't have the induction loops that some of the GATSO and Truvelo's have so they wouldn't know what the vehicle type is. Of course that's not to say that it won't change in the future but I don't believe the current SPECS arrangement does this so if they're set at 60 for the rest of the traffic then the truckers can go flat out if they wish. However, if SPECS cameras on other roads are anything to judge by, it will be the truckers being held up by numpty car drivers doing 45mph "just to be safe" even though the speed limit is 60 with probably 10% of tolerance on that too.

But all that is irrelevant anyway as it will just end up being one huge lemming train with no-one with big enough balls to overtake whatever is in front for fear of getting done speeding.

[simoid]

All that jazz said:

I'm pretty sure the SPECS type are not geared up for issuing fines based on a respective vehicle's speed limit, ie. 40 for a truck in this case. They don't have the induction loops that some of the GATSO and Truvelo's have so they wouldn't know what the vehicle type is. Of course that's not to say that it won't change in the future but I don't believe the current SPECS arrangement does this so if they're set at 60 for the rest of the traffic then the truckers can go flat out if they wish. However, if SPECS cameras on other roads are anything to judge by, it will be the truckers being held up by numpty car drivers doing 45mph "just to be safe" even though the speed limit is 60 with probably 10% of tolerance on that too.

But all that is irrelevant anyway as it will just end up being one huge lemming train with no-one with big enough balls to overtake whatever is in front for fear of getting done speeding.

So why are the lorry drivers complaining?

[All that jazz]

simoid said:

So why are the lorry drivers complaining?

Because lorry drivers!

[ianrb]

All that jazz said:

I'm pretty sure the SPECS type are not geared up for issuing fines based on a respective vehicle's speed limit, ie. 40 for a truck in this case. They don't have the induction loops that some of the GATSO and Truvelo's have so they wouldn't know what the vehicle type is. Of course that's not to say that it won't change in the future but I don't believe the current SPECS arrangement does this so if they're set at 60 for the rest of the traffic then the truckers can go flat out if they wish. However, if SPECS cameras on other roads are anything to judge by, it will be the truckers being held up by numpty car drivers doing 45mph "just to be safe" even though the speed limit is 60 with probably 10% of tolerance on that too.

But all that is irrelevant anyway as it will just end up being one huge lemming train with no-one with big enough balls to overtake whatever is in front for fear of getting done speeding.

Pretty sure they can just look up the registration number and see if it's PLG or HGV etc.

[dxg]

simoid said:

All that jazz said:

I'm pretty sure the SPECS type are not geared up for issuing fines based on a respective vehicle's speed limit, ie. 40 for a truck in this case. They don't have the induction loops that some of the GATSO and Truvelo's have so they wouldn't know what the vehicle type is. Of course that's not to say that it won't change in the future but I don't believe the current SPECS arrangement does this so if they're set at 60 for the rest of the traffic then the truckers can go flat out if they wish. However, if SPECS cameras on other roads are anything to judge by, it will be the truckers being held up by numpty car drivers doing 45mph "just to be safe" even though the speed limit is 60 with probably 10% of tolerance on that too.

But all that is irrelevant anyway as it will just end up being one huge lemming train with no-one with big enough balls to overtake whatever is in front for fear of getting done speeding.

So why are the lorry drivers complaining?

Surely they just match the database of registration plates and vehicle types from the DVLA with the database of registration plates and average speeds from the SPECS cameras. Thus, no need to determine the size of the vehicle and a simple way to enforce the limits for the various different vehicle types.

[b0rk]

Out of interest what is the logic behind introducing average speed enforcement over such a long stretch of road? Rather than active traffic policing

Dairymilk said:

However drivers of other vehicles, usually smaller as it happens, that are observing the limit are complaining that they are being intimidated by tailgating HGVs.
So should the limit be taken up to 60 or dropped to 40?

The passenger car limit on the stretch is 60mph single carriageway or 70mph on the dual carriageway bits. So a car driver that is sticking to posted limit shouldn't be intimidated by HGV's. However as you note most car drivers stay below the posted limit for "safety" in SPEC's zones so could have a HGV sat on its limiter parked on their rear bumper.

[simoid]

The A9 is a really quite unique road with lots of peculiarities and dangerous aspects.

Including but not limited to:
Lots of locals using it quickly
Lots of tourists on it (who occasionally get confused)
Short sections of dual carriageway/overtaking lanes where some people like to go as quickly as possible
Lots of junctions
Long queues of bunched traffic
Lots of HGV traffic
It's often part of a long journey (tired drivers)

The Scottish Government basically reckons that average speed cameras will reduce the accident and fatality rate on the road and many argue this is a case of: "something must be done, if we do something, we're helping".

[matchmaker]

PanzerCommander said:

V8 Fettler said:

The real issue is: how can a major trunk road be a single carriageway?

It was more than likely built in a time when a single carriage way was more than adquate as a trunk road. I'd hazzard a guess that the NIMBYs probably won' let them widen it to a dual carriage way.

i am old enough to remember driving the OLD A9. The current road is a vast improvement. But it is now needing dualled.

The accident problem is not caused by speed - the majority of accidents on the A9 are head-on collisions caused by dangerous overtaking moves. Cameras won't cut the death toll - proper policing would.

[simoid]

matchmaker said:

i am old enough to remember driving the OLD A9. The current road is a vast improvement. But it is now needing dualled.

The accident problem is not caused by speed - the majority of accidents on the A9 are head-on collisions caused by dangerous overtaking moves. Cameras won't cut the death toll - proper policing would.

Have we seen any breakdown of the accidents and causes on the A9?

Genuinely interested, especially to find out how many occurred at below 60mph.

[bad company]

simoid said:

Have we seen any breakdown of the accidents and causes on the A9?

Genuinely interested, especially to find out how many occurred at below 60mph.

The authorities & politicians will ALWAYS blame speed.

[Einion Yrth]

bad company said:

simoid said:

Have we seen any breakdown of the accidents and causes on the A9?

Genuinely interested, especially to find out how many occurred at below 60mph.

The authorities & politicians will ALWAYS blame speed.

I suspect it to be suicidal overtakes brought on by frustration at the slow vehicles/long queues.