Advice re choice of DSLR for video
Discussion
I video rugby matches for my club for latter assessment and technical review.
We currently use a camcorder but the quality, especially in poor light, is poor. Further it throws the occasional wobbly in cold temperatures - it is frequently below zero - and rain affects the touch screen.
We are looking to upgrade and the universal advice has been to opt for a DSLR, much to my surprise but I accept it.
We have a limited budget. I would be happy to opt for an adequate body as long as the video is fine.
Necessities:
Robust. I've been knocked into a number of times.
Tilt screen, upwards and downward, minimum 3". Prefer not a touchscreen.
Ability to alter depth of field easily and quickly.
Decent viewfinder. Sometimes it is windy and cold and my eyes water.
Good contrast.
Decent focus - rapid and accurate. I know this is often inferior to a camcorder and will accept this.
Lens mount identical to higher quality bodies in the range. We hope to expand the use of video to lower teams and training.
Preferences:
WiFi enabled.
Fairly cheap remote in order to use when stuck up in the air on the end of a monopod.
Also:
Am after a decent quality 75 - 180mm (old English measurement) lens so if one comes in a kit, that would be useful.
Any other advice.
I'm after personal thoughts as well.
We currently use a camcorder but the quality, especially in poor light, is poor. Further it throws the occasional wobbly in cold temperatures - it is frequently below zero - and rain affects the touch screen.
We are looking to upgrade and the universal advice has been to opt for a DSLR, much to my surprise but I accept it.
We have a limited budget. I would be happy to opt for an adequate body as long as the video is fine.
Necessities:
Robust. I've been knocked into a number of times.
Tilt screen, upwards and downward, minimum 3". Prefer not a touchscreen.
Ability to alter depth of field easily and quickly.
Decent viewfinder. Sometimes it is windy and cold and my eyes water.
Good contrast.
Decent focus - rapid and accurate. I know this is often inferior to a camcorder and will accept this.
Lens mount identical to higher quality bodies in the range. We hope to expand the use of video to lower teams and training.
Preferences:
WiFi enabled.
Fairly cheap remote in order to use when stuck up in the air on the end of a monopod.
Also:
Am after a decent quality 75 - 180mm (old English measurement) lens so if one comes in a kit, that would be useful.
Any other advice.
I'm after personal thoughts as well.
I'd have said 7D for robustness and outdoorsiness, but the 60D has the tilty screen.
Not sure if there's a newer model that might combine that??
Other than that, do you need to record the whole game in a single take? If so, you'll be limited to 12 minute clips on the DSLR (and you'd be wise to go shorter because if a clip fails, you lose it all...). Maybe not an issue if you can work in takes but worth mentioning...
Not sure if there's a newer model that might combine that??
Other than that, do you need to record the whole game in a single take? If so, you'll be limited to 12 minute clips on the DSLR (and you'd be wise to go shorter because if a clip fails, you lose it all...). Maybe not an issue if you can work in takes but worth mentioning...
Disastrous said:
Other than that, do you need to record the whole game in a single take? If so, you'll be limited to 12 minute clips on the DSLR (and you'd be wise to go shorter because if a clip fails, you lose it all...). Maybe not an issue if you can work in takes but worth mentioning...
Thanks for that. It's the first I've heard of this limitation.I normally break the video at lineouts, just for ease of editing so nothing more than 5 minutes or so.
Why is there this limitation?
Derek Smith said:
Disastrous said:
Other than that, do you need to record the whole game in a single take? If so, you'll be limited to 12 minute clips on the DSLR (and you'd be wise to go shorter because if a clip fails, you lose it all...). Maybe not an issue if you can work in takes but worth mentioning...
Thanks for that. It's the first I've heard of this limitation.I normally break the video at lineouts, just for ease of editing so nothing more than 5 minutes or so.
Why is there this limitation?
1) Continuous recording makes the units run quite hot and they can overheat
2) Something computery about file formats and maximum size they can write to an SD card or something (I'm not remotely techy)
3) I *believe* that continuous recording classifies the device as a camcorder which means a different rate of duty
I'm also pretty sure you can get firmware hacks (someone may know if Magic Lantern enables this) that remove the restriction but I wouldn't trust it 100% of the time.
I think that what you probably *really* want is something like a C100 or C300 which would give you the ability to use nice glass from SLRs but with full camcorder functionality in a nice lightweight body.
They come at a price however...
ETA - workarounds:
http://www.mintyslippers.com/filming-with-dslrs-wo...
ETAA - A bit more reading suggests that the 12 minute limit is for processing reasons but the limit for tax/duty is actually 29 minutes 59 seconds.
http://www.parkcameras.com/article/345/Video-DSLR-...
Edited by Disastrous on Friday 4th July 14:55
If you are spending a reasonable amount of money on a camera purely to take video, then you would probably be better off with something designed for it rather than a dslr. Something like a Black Magic Pocket Cinema, which uses the micro four thirds lens mount: http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/blackm...
The downside is you need to know how to use them properly to get decent results. It's worth learning if you want nice results, but there is a bit of a learning curve.
The downside is you need to know how to use them properly to get decent results. It's worth learning if you want nice results, but there is a bit of a learning curve.
Which camcorder do you currently use?
realistically are you going to be playing with settings or are you happy to point and shoot? basic Sony Handycam will give you the quality, zoom, screen and features you need without breaking the bank and without the need for further accessories such as lenses etc.
A DSLR will let you do high quality video for cheaper than a top quality camcorder, will let you add things such as external microphones, etc etc but this still won't be cheap.
realistically are you going to be playing with settings or are you happy to point and shoot? basic Sony Handycam will give you the quality, zoom, screen and features you need without breaking the bank and without the need for further accessories such as lenses etc.
A DSLR will let you do high quality video for cheaper than a top quality camcorder, will let you add things such as external microphones, etc etc but this still won't be cheap.
I've used camcorders for years, from early VHSC, which took two people to carry, to the current Sony handycam, only bought 3 years ago after the HDD Sony threw a wobbly.
I've used professional gear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHrUt4UtbiA
but have to say the sheer bulk of it is more than a little off-putting.
On reading various books and such on film-making I've found that there is a consensus that domestic camcorders should be avoided. Certainly the lack of a viewfinder is a negative, as is detailed control of depth of field, etc.
However, if there is a decent camcorder out there which is robust and flexible then please let me know.
I've considered a Canon Legria G25. It's at the top end of the price range. It looks a bit pro.
Thanks for the help and advice so far.
I've used professional gear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHrUt4UtbiA
but have to say the sheer bulk of it is more than a little off-putting.
On reading various books and such on film-making I've found that there is a consensus that domestic camcorders should be avoided. Certainly the lack of a viewfinder is a negative, as is detailed control of depth of field, etc.
However, if there is a decent camcorder out there which is robust and flexible then please let me know.
I've considered a Canon Legria G25. It's at the top end of the price range. It looks a bit pro.
Thanks for the help and advice so far.
Edited by Derek Smith on Friday 4th July 17:40
It sounds like you may be on the horns of a dilemma, Derek.
Yes, a dslr will allow you to work at v high iso's and with wide apertures in low light, but that's mainly done using a prime lens, rather than a zoom. But focussing on rapid action becomes problematic because of the shallow depth of field. The limited field of view, depending on the lens's focal length can be problematic too.
Also, the best high ISO dslr's tend to come with the full frame digitals.
You're going to need to make some hard decisions. I'd suggest you try Clock Tower Cameras or MPB and explain what you want to do. If you're straight with them and promise to pay for damages they may (MAY) allow you to trial some second hand gear to see what best fits the bill.
My Nikon D800 will shot 30 minute segments but it's probably a bit too expensive according to your specs.
Yes, a dslr will allow you to work at v high iso's and with wide apertures in low light, but that's mainly done using a prime lens, rather than a zoom. But focussing on rapid action becomes problematic because of the shallow depth of field. The limited field of view, depending on the lens's focal length can be problematic too.
Also, the best high ISO dslr's tend to come with the full frame digitals.
You're going to need to make some hard decisions. I'd suggest you try Clock Tower Cameras or MPB and explain what you want to do. If you're straight with them and promise to pay for damages they may (MAY) allow you to trial some second hand gear to see what best fits the bill.
My Nikon D800 will shot 30 minute segments but it's probably a bit too expensive according to your specs.
Simpo Two said:
You don't want short, highly creative, mega-quality stuff, you want to film a rugby match.
You nearly typed you only want to film a rugby match. Lucky for you you didn't.Thanks guys for all your help. Much appreciated. Went to a local camera shop and discussed matters there and the comments here helped me to ask the right questions. Got a chap who videos soccer matches. Although he uses a high-end Nikon (get it cheap I suppose), he reckons that a dedicated camcorder would probably suit me better. The limited time of shots was mentioned.
Limited choice of camcorders with a viewfinder. He suggested a handkerchief for runny eyes.
I produce short vidoes from the footage but as we don't want to give anything away to the opposition, they are only for internal use.
Stats and feedback are the main reasons for the videoing so I can't always slit the video into short sections.
Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff