Why all the SS Trans Complaints?
Discussion
I really don't get all the negative comments on the various iterations of the SS trans, unless the ones in the Gaydon cars are worse than the one in the Vanquish, which can't be the case, can it?
I say this because I had my first ever driven in a Vanq and was not expecting much based on the continual criticism of the Gaydon SS versions. I mean, how could the ancient Vanq version be any good if the more modern iterations were terrible?
So much for believing the reviewers; I thought the trans was perfect. But then again, I drove it like I would drive my manual...let off the throttle momentarily during the upshifts. And of course the downshifts were great with the throttle blipping (better than I can do considering the difficulty with heel and toeing on the DB).
Maybe it's the low expectations going in, but I would be perfectly happy with an SS...you've just got to drive it as you would any other manual equipped machine, and then it's very satisfying.
I say this because I had my first ever driven in a Vanq and was not expecting much based on the continual criticism of the Gaydon SS versions. I mean, how could the ancient Vanq version be any good if the more modern iterations were terrible?
So much for believing the reviewers; I thought the trans was perfect. But then again, I drove it like I would drive my manual...let off the throttle momentarily during the upshifts. And of course the downshifts were great with the throttle blipping (better than I can do considering the difficulty with heel and toeing on the DB).
Maybe it's the low expectations going in, but I would be perfectly happy with an SS...you've just got to drive it as you would any other manual equipped machine, and then it's very satisfying.
Reading your post, at first I thought you were talking about the Vanquish II. Upon re-reading it, I'm pretty sure you are referring to the original model.
The newer Vanquish uses Touchtronic which is way too slow, even in Sport mode. This will be fixed in 2015 when it switches to the new 8-speed gearbox.
The newer Vanquish uses Touchtronic which is way too slow, even in Sport mode. This will be fixed in 2015 when it switches to the new 8-speed gearbox.
The main "issues" with pretty much all automated manuals ( not just Aston's) relate to low speed manouvering, coming out of the garage, parking in a tight spot, moving forward very slowly, reversing, manouvering on an incline. Basically where a manual driver would slip their own clutch the robotised systems just aren't as good as your left foot! On a one day drive you probably wouldn't encounter these quirks, which are worse when the car is cold. The other main complaints relate to the auto modes, which are all pretty crap.
But if you use the paddles for best driver control and learn to lift slightly on upshifts, as you did, the gearbox is fantastic fun, with very fast accurate upchanges and you keep your hands on the wheel for best control. But the heel/toe style downchanges are the real benefit of the system, you find yourself zipping up and down the box to maximise performance and control. I agree it is great fun when pressing on, but those other quirks still mean it is fun and frustrating in equal measure!
But there is an argument that says auto and dual clutch systems are just too smooth and easy, and the fact that you have to learn how to use robotised manuals and it takes driver involvement to get the best out of them actually creates a more involving overall drivers car!
But if you use the paddles for best driver control and learn to lift slightly on upshifts, as you did, the gearbox is fantastic fun, with very fast accurate upchanges and you keep your hands on the wheel for best control. But the heel/toe style downchanges are the real benefit of the system, you find yourself zipping up and down the box to maximise performance and control. I agree it is great fun when pressing on, but those other quirks still mean it is fun and frustrating in equal measure!
But there is an argument that says auto and dual clutch systems are just too smooth and easy, and the fact that you have to learn how to use robotised manuals and it takes driver involvement to get the best out of them actually creates a more involving overall drivers car!
erics said:
I think Works have done a lot of work on the old Vanquish paddle shifter. I have been told that they can make it work really good nowadays.
They have updated softwares etc..
No, the biggest and best improvement was made soon after the introduction of the S when the gear selector sensors were changed from mechanical pins to inductive magnetic. There were various improvements made to the software before then.They have updated softwares etc..
Grant3 said:
But there is an argument that says auto and dual clutch systems are just too smooth and easy, and the fact that you have to learn how to use robotised manuals and it takes driver involvement to get the best out of them actually creates a more involving overall drivers car!
Grant3 said:
The main "issues" with pretty much all automated manuals ( not just Aston's) relate to low speed manouvering, coming out of the garage, parking in a tight spot, moving forward very slowly, reversing, manouvering on an incline. Basically where a manual driver would slip their own clutch the robotised systems just aren't as good as your left foot! On a one day drive you probably wouldn't encounter these quirks, which are worse when the car is cold. The other main complaints relate to the auto modes, which are all pretty crap.
But if you use the paddles for best driver control and learn to lift slightly on upshifts, as you did, the gearbox is fantastic fun, with very fast accurate upchanges and you keep your hands on the wheel for best control. But the heel/toe style downchanges are the real benefit of the system, you find yourself zipping up and down the box to maximise performance and control. I agree it is great fun when pressing on, but those other quirks still mean it is fun and frustrating in equal measure!
But there is an argument that says auto and dual clutch systems are just too smooth and easy, and the fact that you have to learn how to use robotised manuals and it takes driver involvement to get the best out of them actually creates a more involving overall drivers car!
Perfect post. As you say, the two common issues which I have 'sympathy' with about ASM systems in general are low speed maneuvering and the 'D' (auto) mode. It should be said that with each successive incarnation, especially the latest ASM3 in the V12, those issues have got much betterBut if you use the paddles for best driver control and learn to lift slightly on upshifts, as you did, the gearbox is fantastic fun, with very fast accurate upchanges and you keep your hands on the wheel for best control. But the heel/toe style downchanges are the real benefit of the system, you find yourself zipping up and down the box to maximise performance and control. I agree it is great fun when pressing on, but those other quirks still mean it is fun and frustrating in equal measure!
But there is an argument that says auto and dual clutch systems are just too smooth and easy, and the fact that you have to learn how to use robotised manuals and it takes driver involvement to get the best out of them actually creates a more involving overall drivers car!
But what particularly frustrates me is that experienced, intelligent & knowledgeable journos continue to evaluate these boxes in a wholly unhelpful manner
ASM tends to use the identical box & ratios as the 3 pedal manual option available in the same car (assuming one is available) and to my mind, it's the 3 pedal manual box it should be compared to. If you drive in a similar style to a 3 pedal car, e.g lifting off the gas when changing gear, I refuse to believe anyone can change gears as quickly with 3 pedals as they can with ASM
Comparing ASM to DSG (dual clutch automated manual) is IMO simply the wrong comparison. That's not to say I don't understand why some people prefer DSG or conventional auto, but nobody compares 3 pedal manual to DSG or auto and complains it's not as quick to change gear, or that you have to be careful driving from stationary on a hill, or that the auto mode (obviously there isn't one in a 3 pedal car) isn't very good. So why make those points when testing an ASM box. Yes an ASM box takes some time for the driver to learn how to use. But so does 3 pedal manual
The majority of the car buying public seem to think that all flappy paddle boxes are essentially the same type of system (including conventional auto with flappies) and therefore that the choice is manual with 3 pedals or flappies (of any type). The journos don't seem to want to tackle that issue so help perpetuate the myth
I couldn't believe the reviews of V12VS when it first came out. Loads of praise for most aspects, including the handling, performance, brakes, etc which I thought quite an achievement for the car in question. The sole criticism other than a dated cabin seemed to be the gearbox. But I thought the new gearbox was wonderful when I tried the car.
What I don't get is there are plenty of journos who love conventional manuals and cherish their own cars with same. So why do they bang on about the difference between shift times in ASM and DSG without pointing out that DSG loses much of the drama & involvement of single clutch transmissions ?
I drove the Vanq in some traffic...no issues for me. As other have stated at length here, you've really got to compare manual vs the SS, not some other kind of DCT or automatic.
Drive it like the manual that it is, and it's great. And any complaints about rolling back on a hill are just so much whining, it is far easier at hill starts than a full manual, esp. with the relatively tall first gear these cars have.
BTW, this Vanq had the magnetic sensor upgrade.
Drive it like the manual that it is, and it's great. And any complaints about rolling back on a hill are just so much whining, it is far easier at hill starts than a full manual, esp. with the relatively tall first gear these cars have.
BTW, this Vanq had the magnetic sensor upgrade.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
I drove the Vanq in some traffic...no issues for me. As other have stated at length here, you've really got to compare manual vs the SS, not some other kind of DCT or automatic.
Drive it like the manual that it is, and it's great. And any complaints about rolling back on a hill are just so much whining, it is far easier at hill starts than a full manual, esp. with the relatively tall first gear these cars have.
I've never driven or been in a Vanquish mkI much as I've seen & admired plenty. Bearing in mind Vanq I is known more for it's 'poor' gearbox than anything else, is this a classic example of something we often see, that you should to an extent treat what you read with a pinch of salt and form your own opinion after real world experience ?Drive it like the manual that it is, and it's great. And any complaints about rolling back on a hill are just so much whining, it is far easier at hill starts than a full manual, esp. with the relatively tall first gear these cars have.
As for 'driving it like the manual that it is', I'll never forget my first test drive in a SS Vantage. The test driver started the driving then we swapped seats. After a few miles, he stated 'you've just come out of a manual car haven't you ?' (I had).
He had taken a few people out earlier who couldn't get on with the transmission - they had come out of conventional auto cars. There is no question that more than any other type of transmission, people need educating far better about ASM to understand what it is, how to drive with it and whether it's appropriate for their needs.
jonby said:
DB9VolanteDriver said:
I drove the Vanq in some traffic...no issues for me. As other have stated at length here, you've really got to compare manual vs the SS, not some other kind of DCT or automatic.
Drive it like the manual that it is, and it's great. And any complaints about rolling back on a hill are just so much whining, it is far easier at hill starts than a full manual, esp. with the relatively tall first gear these cars have.
I've never driven or been in a Vanquish mkI much as I've seen & admired plenty. Bearing in mind Vanq I is known more for it's 'poor' gearbox than anything else, is this a classic example of something we often see, that you should to an extent treat what you read with a pinch of salt and form your own opinion after real world experience ?Drive it like the manual that it is, and it's great. And any complaints about rolling back on a hill are just so much whining, it is far easier at hill starts than a full manual, esp. with the relatively tall first gear these cars have.
As for 'driving it like the manual that it is', I'll never forget my first test drive in a SS Vantage. The test driver started the driving then we swapped seats. After a few miles, he stated 'you've just come out of a manual car haven't you ?' (I had).
He had taken a few people out earlier who couldn't get on with the transmission - they had come out of conventional auto cars. There is no question that more than any other type of transmission, people need educating far better about ASM to understand what it is, how to drive with it and whether it's appropriate for their needs.
DB9VolanteDriver said:
jonby said:
DB9VolanteDriver said:
I drove the Vanq in some traffic...no issues for me. As other have stated at length here, you've really got to compare manual vs the SS, not some other kind of DCT or automatic.
Drive it like the manual that it is, and it's great. And any complaints about rolling back on a hill are just so much whining, it is far easier at hill starts than a full manual, esp. with the relatively tall first gear these cars have.
I've never driven or been in a Vanquish mkI much as I've seen & admired plenty. Bearing in mind Vanq I is known more for it's 'poor' gearbox than anything else, is this a classic example of something we often see, that you should to an extent treat what you read with a pinch of salt and form your own opinion after real world experience ?Drive it like the manual that it is, and it's great. And any complaints about rolling back on a hill are just so much whining, it is far easier at hill starts than a full manual, esp. with the relatively tall first gear these cars have.
As for 'driving it like the manual that it is', I'll never forget my first test drive in a SS Vantage. The test driver started the driving then we swapped seats. After a few miles, he stated 'you've just come out of a manual car haven't you ?' (I had).
He had taken a few people out earlier who couldn't get on with the transmission - they had come out of conventional auto cars. There is no question that more than any other type of transmission, people need educating far better about ASM to understand what it is, how to drive with it and whether it's appropriate for their needs.
Jon1967x said:
I only partly agree because it is possible to get robotised manuals to work better than aston do. I like the character of mine when I control it but Im doubtful they design the 'D' to be that bad - it's presumably the best they could do
The best they could do given the budget constraints more likely. A twin plate clutch and lightened flywheel apparently make the ASM boxes much smoother in D, but of course they cost more.That said, I drove an ASM 1 box and it was great. D was hesitant and clunky, reverse was OK, but with the paddles it was great. As others have said, just treat it like the manual it is and lift off the throttle when changing gear.
V12woollie said:
Jon1967x said:
I only partly agree because it is possible to get robotised manuals to work better than aston do. I like the character of mine when I control it but Im doubtful they design the 'D' to be that bad - it's presumably the best they could do
The best they could do given the budget constraints more likely. A twin plate clutch and lightened flywheel apparently make the ASM boxes much smoother in D, but of course they cost more.That said, I drove an ASM 1 box and it was great. D was hesitant and clunky, reverse was OK, but with the paddles it was great. As others have said, just treat it like the manual it is and lift off the throttle when changing gear.
The lifting (or slight toe curl) does even it out but back off too much and the gear change slows down - some days it just works without thinking about it, other days you can feel like a learner driver. I've got into the habit in slow traffic of giving it a burst then flick into neutral and coast - seems to work ok unless you need to go again before stopping and I'm never quite sure whether to pull the trigger or stop and start off.. All part of the joy!
Jon1967x said:
I've got into the habit in slow traffic of giving it a burst then flick into neutral and coast - seems to work ok unless you need to go again before stopping and I'm never quite sure whether to pull the trigger or stop and start off.. All part of the joy!
What should you do if you are rolling in neutral? What is safe/OK here? Would be good not to have to stop!Having come from a PorschePDK my first impressions of the SS were poor. It has taken me the best part of a year to learn how to drive the car and now (other than when it is cold) i actually prefer it to the PDK. The SS is a lot more involving to drive than an auto and much smoother and less effort than a manual. I fully expect to stick with the SS when changing next time. My only criticism is that when the car is cold it is very difficult to manoeuvre slowly without clutch judder but once warmed up it is ok for parking and reversing etc.
LancsKid said:
Having come from a PorschePDK my first impressions of the SS were poor. It has taken me the best part of a year to learn how to drive the car and now (other than when it is cold) i actually prefer it to the PDK. The SS is a lot more involving to drive than an auto and much smoother and less effort than a manual. I fully expect to stick with the SS when changing next time. My only criticism is that when the car is cold it is very difficult to manoeuvre slowly without clutch judder but once warmed up it is ok for parking and reversing etc.
that's a really useful and interesting comparison, especially as you've lived with both rather than a brief back to back reviewDB9VolanteDriver said:
I really don't get all the negative comments on the various iterations of the SS trans, unless the ones in the Gaydon cars are worse than the one in the Vanquish, which can't be the case, can it?
I say this because I had my first ever driven in a Vanq and was not expecting much based on the continual criticism of the Gaydon SS versions. I mean, how could the ancient Vanq version be any good if the more modern iterations were terrible?
So much for believing the reviewers; I thought the trans was perfect. But then again, I drove it like I would drive my manual...let off the throttle momentarily during the upshifts. And of course the downshifts were great with the throttle blipping (better than I can do considering the difficulty with heel and toeing on the DB).
Maybe it's the low expectations going in, but I would be perfectly happy with an SS...you've just got to drive it as you would any other manual equipped machine, and then it's very satisfying.
Am I right in thinking you liked it so much you bought one I say this because I had my first ever driven in a Vanq and was not expecting much based on the continual criticism of the Gaydon SS versions. I mean, how could the ancient Vanq version be any good if the more modern iterations were terrible?
So much for believing the reviewers; I thought the trans was perfect. But then again, I drove it like I would drive my manual...let off the throttle momentarily during the upshifts. And of course the downshifts were great with the throttle blipping (better than I can do considering the difficulty with heel and toeing on the DB).
Maybe it's the low expectations going in, but I would be perfectly happy with an SS...you've just got to drive it as you would any other manual equipped machine, and then it's very satisfying.
Lovely colour combo if it is the one I think it is 
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