So this Pavehawk the USAF lost in Norfolk
Discussion
Tom_C76 said:
Flying over a nature reserve at 33m up. At high speed, in an aircraft not able to withstand impacts with geese at those speeds. Surely someone should have seen this one coming?
The root cause surprised me I have to say. I can't imagine that a goose hitting a wind shield at 100kts imparts any more kinetic energy than a large calibre rifle round at peak velocity and I would have thought that something like a pave-hawk, which is specifically designed for insertion and retrieval ops in enemy territory, would be armoured against such weaponry. http://www.michaelyon-online.com/pedros.htm
"The pilots swoop in for the patient. There is only one thing that British soldiers love more than mail and that’s Pedro. When I told British soldiers from 2 Rifles that Pedro was going to take me, many British soldiers asked me to say “thank yous” to the Pedros. The Pedros are a great morale booster because we know when we take casualties, Pedro is coming with miniguns and incredible medics. When other helicopters are grounded by bad weather, Pedro goes. When bullets are flying, Pedro comes in with miniguns blazing. They also rescue Danish, Americans, and others, including contractors and Afghan civilians sometimes."
"The pilots swoop in for the patient. There is only one thing that British soldiers love more than mail and that’s Pedro. When I told British soldiers from 2 Rifles that Pedro was going to take me, many British soldiers asked me to say “thank yous” to the Pedros. The Pedros are a great morale booster because we know when we take casualties, Pedro is coming with miniguns and incredible medics. When other helicopters are grounded by bad weather, Pedro goes. When bullets are flying, Pedro comes in with miniguns blazing. They also rescue Danish, Americans, and others, including contractors and Afghan civilians sometimes."
The Brits have the MERT, Medical Emergency Response Team, which according to the US Brigade Commander I spoke to, are better than the Pedro as they turn up with not only Medics, but Anaesthetist, Orthopedic/Cardiothorasic/GeneralSurgen (Dependant on the nature of the injury) as appropriate, and at least one AH-64.
stevesingo said:
The Brits have the MERT, Medical Emergency Response Team, which according to the US Brigade Commander I spoke to, are better than the Pedro as they turn up with not only Medics, but Anaesthetist, Orthopedic/Cardiothorasic/GeneralSurgen (Dependant on the nature of the injury) as appropriate, and at least one AH-64.
From what I have heard its pretty much an operating theater in the back of a Chinook with a section of RAF Regt Gunners thrown in for good measure.stevesingo said:
The Brits have the MERT, Medical Emergency Response Team, which according to the US Brigade Commander I spoke to, are better than the Pedro as they turn up with not only Medics, but Anaesthetist, Orthopedic/Cardiothorasic/GeneralSurgen (Dependant on the nature of the injury) as appropriate, and at least one AH-64.
IIRCpedro = 2* xH-60 family ,paramedics
MERT = Chinhook, at least one Apache , Consultant level Doctors *2, Nurses and/or Paramedics and force protecion rockapes
MERT and UK Sar Ops is also the reason the RAF have got their ducks in a row over HCPC Paramedic training / education for relevant pers while the RAMC are still talking aobut it 15 years after State Registration came in
Edited by mph1977 on Thursday 10th July 17:20
Mojocvh said:
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/pedros.htm
"The pilots swoop in for the patient. There is only one thing that British soldiers love more than mail and that’s Pedro. When I told British soldiers from 2 Rifles that Pedro was going to take me, many British soldiers asked me to say “thank yous” to the Pedros. The Pedros are a great morale booster because we know when we take casualties, Pedro is coming with miniguns and incredible medics. When other helicopters are grounded by bad weather, Pedro goes. When bullets are flying, Pedro comes in with miniguns blazing. They also rescue Danish, Americans, and others, including contractors and Afghan civilians sometimes."
So is they mainly Mexican?"The pilots swoop in for the patient. There is only one thing that British soldiers love more than mail and that’s Pedro. When I told British soldiers from 2 Rifles that Pedro was going to take me, many British soldiers asked me to say “thank yous” to the Pedros. The Pedros are a great morale booster because we know when we take casualties, Pedro is coming with miniguns and incredible medics. When other helicopters are grounded by bad weather, Pedro goes. When bullets are flying, Pedro comes in with miniguns blazing. They also rescue Danish, Americans, and others, including contractors and Afghan civilians sometimes."
rhinochopig said:
The root cause surprised me I have to say. I can't imagine that a goose hitting a wind shield at 100kts imparts any more kinetic energy than a large calibre rifle round at peak velocity and I would have thought that something like a pave-hawk, which is specifically designed for insertion and retrieval ops in enemy territory, would be armoured against such weaponry.
If you design a helicopter specifically for being hit by geese and large calibre rifle rounds then it wouldn't even get airborne 
Most military helicopters on operations can carry some kind of armour, but it is so heavy (well, duh) that performance can be badly affected such that only armour in the most vulnerable locations can be fitted. Also, the pilots need to see out and small slits in Kevlar plate doesn't really cut it when you're trying to land a formation of helicopters in brown out conditions....at night 
I'm not entirely convinced by the geese theory at 100kts.....I've hit several birds over the years (admittedly nothing quite as big as a goose) at speeds from 150knots (airframe) to 420 (rotors) knots and never had any damage to speak of. 100knots is a relatively slow speed for a blackhawk aswell.....maybe it's true but I'm not entirely sure. A friend of mine hit a very large bird of prey (not too far off a Goose) at 120kts on the canopy and the only damage was a crack in the Perspex.
Report stated that both pilots and 1 gunner were incapacitated [ie knocked unconscious]by goose impacts prior to the final crash 3 seconds later.
Which suggests there were more that a single goose which, oddly enough, is how they fly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tVrUmP8UwE
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQcHIHmtkAw
crank up the volume...
Which suggests there were more that a single goose which, oddly enough, is how they fly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tVrUmP8UwE
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQcHIHmtkAw
crank up the volume...
Edited by Mojocvh on Friday 11th July 19:35
mybrainhurts said:
Ali Chappussy said:
Now, the goose that hit the tail rotor, that's a different story!
I hate bloody helicopters. Work of the devil. They were Not Meant To Be. Thousands of mechanical parts, all going in the wrong direction...
rhinochopig said:
mybrainhurts said:
Ali Chappussy said:
Now, the goose that hit the tail rotor, that's a different story!
I hate bloody helicopters. Work of the devil. They were Not Meant To Be. Thousands of mechanical parts, all going in the wrong direction...Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff