E39 525i M Sport - a good shout?
Discussion
I'm in the market for an estate, preferably something 'premium'. After hours of trawling the PH Classifieds, the Bargain Barge thread, Ebay, Auto Trader and the rest, I think I may have found one which ticks most, if not all the boxes. I was originally looking for a large petrol engine example, and narrowed it down to 3 and 5 series under £3k. Plenty were almost there, but as a result of distance, poor seller feedback, not being quick enough etc I'm now a couple of weeks down the line and may have found the one:
525i M Sport Touring
Grey with black leather and aluminium trim
102k miles
Recent work includes new discs/pads all round, radiator, front suspension arms
3 previous owners
MOT until next month, tax until January '15.
A few scratches and dings commensurate with age.
£2200
Are there any weak spots to be looking for specifically? It seems well-priced when compared to the other options, the seller appears to be a decent chap from the initial contact, and well-written advert. The car received no bids on Ebay.
I'm aiming to have this car for two or three years, covering around 10k a year, until B8 Audi S4 Avants reach the £15k mark. I'm currently driving a 1.8 TDCI Mk2 Focus, so the power will be a nice step up, but I was wondering whether it's worth holding out for a 530i - is there much in it?
525i M Sport Touring
Grey with black leather and aluminium trim
102k miles
Recent work includes new discs/pads all round, radiator, front suspension arms
3 previous owners
MOT until next month, tax until January '15.
A few scratches and dings commensurate with age.
£2200
Are there any weak spots to be looking for specifically? It seems well-priced when compared to the other options, the seller appears to be a decent chap from the initial contact, and well-written advert. The car received no bids on Ebay.
I'm aiming to have this car for two or three years, covering around 10k a year, until B8 Audi S4 Avants reach the £15k mark. I'm currently driving a 1.8 TDCI Mk2 Focus, so the power will be a nice step up, but I was wondering whether it's worth holding out for a 530i - is there much in it?
Sounds nice enough. 
MoT until next month? Could be nothing. Could be ££. I think that very much depends on previous advisories. That would be my only concern.
Otherwise the E39 is a decent car. Mostly it's niggly stuff like pixels on the dash/OBC failing. Rust is also something to consider. They can be a little heavy on suspension components and in view of the short MoT, something to have in the back of your mind.
Good luck!
MoT until next month? Could be nothing. Could be ££. I think that very much depends on previous advisories. That would be my only concern.
Otherwise the E39 is a decent car. Mostly it's niggly stuff like pixels on the dash/OBC failing. Rust is also something to consider. They can be a little heavy on suspension components and in view of the short MoT, something to have in the back of your mind.
Good luck!
I'd rather a 530i in SE guise than a 525 sport. The 3ltr engine really is one of the best I've ever had the pleasure of using.
That said I was looking for a 530D sport manual saloon and ended up with a 525D Touring SE. I bought on condition and the amount of recent work it had done. Would recommend you do the same because around the 100K miles mark is where everything seems to start failing on E39s.
That said I was looking for a 530D sport manual saloon and ended up with a 525D Touring SE. I bought on condition and the amount of recent work it had done. Would recommend you do the same because around the 100K miles mark is where everything seems to start failing on E39s.
Well, I can tell you that I have a 525i and sometimes do wish I'd held out for the extra torque of a 530i, which has the same fuel economy...
Having said that, good 530is can be hard to come by and 525i isn't slow.
There are some good things about that specific car:
- Radiator replacement a good sign
- Leather is nice
- Mileage (Goldilocks - not too high, not too low!)
Check other items from the buyer's guide here:
http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/18128-e39-buying-gui...
I'm not sure how much of a premium one should expect to pay for a Touring and for the MSport trim level. Also can't really say whether that's a good price without more info:
- How old is it?
- Is it automatic? Auto boxes can go expensively wrong.
- Does it have air suspension? This tends to break, albeit isn't that expensive to fix.
If it helps, I can tell you I bought my 52 plate 525i Saloon manual with 130k for £1,900 over 2 years ago...
Having said that, good 530is can be hard to come by and 525i isn't slow.
There are some good things about that specific car:
- Radiator replacement a good sign
- Leather is nice
- Mileage (Goldilocks - not too high, not too low!)
Check other items from the buyer's guide here:
http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/18128-e39-buying-gui...
I'm not sure how much of a premium one should expect to pay for a Touring and for the MSport trim level. Also can't really say whether that's a good price without more info:
- How old is it?
- Is it automatic? Auto boxes can go expensively wrong.
- Does it have air suspension? This tends to break, albeit isn't that expensive to fix.
If it helps, I can tell you I bought my 52 plate 525i Saloon manual with 130k for £1,900 over 2 years ago...
On a touring, expect to have to replace pretty much the whole of the rear suspension if it has not been done. The rear subframe bushes will be shot, and the air springs are well into the replacement zone. Also budget for four new dampers and a lot of other bushes and ball joints if you want it to drive as well as it should. It is pretty much a cert that the rear anti-roll bar drop links will need replacement too at that age and mileage.
Thanks all for the info - it's an '03 plate, automatic. I don't know whether it has air suspension or not. Complete rear suspension rebuild does not sound like much fun. 
Is that something that can deteriorate fairly quickly - seller says he has checked the previous few years or MOTs and all of the advisories have actually been addressed by him in his 10 months of ownership.
Is that something that can deteriorate fairly quickly - seller says he has checked the previous few years or MOTs and all of the advisories have actually been addressed by him in his 10 months of ownership.All E39 and E61 Tourings have air suspension at the back.
When the air springs go bang they do so quickly and usually without warning. I regard them as a five year / 100,000 mile disposable part.
The rest deteriorates gradually. And there is only so long you can expect a piece of rubber to work properly in a sophisticated design like E39 suspension witout being renewed.
You can pass an MOT with a damper that is seriously past its best. The MOT tester won't care whether it crashes and bangs over road irregularities, or wallows in the corners, or understeers like a cow on roller skates (which my current 530i Touring did when I acquired it: despite a pretty fresh MOT, the rear anti-roll bar was having no effect at all due to wear in the bushes). He only tests to the MOT manual.
Seriously, surely you can't expect a near on two ton 150 mph estate car to ride and handle the way it should at 12-15 years old and more than 100,000 miles unless it's had a very thorough suspension rebuild at some point. (Saloons too by the way - the only real difference is the air springs on the Touring).
That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy the car. Thework that has been done an it recently is all a positive. But you must expect it to need more if you want it to stay good and drive properly. The running costs of a car like this go up, rather than down, with age.
Ignoring the diesel-only bits you might find this thread of benefit:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
When the air springs go bang they do so quickly and usually without warning. I regard them as a five year / 100,000 mile disposable part.
The rest deteriorates gradually. And there is only so long you can expect a piece of rubber to work properly in a sophisticated design like E39 suspension witout being renewed.
You can pass an MOT with a damper that is seriously past its best. The MOT tester won't care whether it crashes and bangs over road irregularities, or wallows in the corners, or understeers like a cow on roller skates (which my current 530i Touring did when I acquired it: despite a pretty fresh MOT, the rear anti-roll bar was having no effect at all due to wear in the bushes). He only tests to the MOT manual.
Seriously, surely you can't expect a near on two ton 150 mph estate car to ride and handle the way it should at 12-15 years old and more than 100,000 miles unless it's had a very thorough suspension rebuild at some point. (Saloons too by the way - the only real difference is the air springs on the Touring).
That doesn't mean you shouldn't buy the car. Thework that has been done an it recently is all a positive. But you must expect it to need more if you want it to stay good and drive properly. The running costs of a car like this go up, rather than down, with age.
Ignoring the diesel-only bits you might find this thread of benefit:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Edited by Lowtimer on Monday 14th July 16:52
Lowtimer said:
Seriously, surely you can't expect a near on two ton 150 mph estate car to ride and handle the way it should at 12-15 years old and more than 100,000 miles unless it's had a very thorough suspension rebuild at some point. (Saloons too by the way - the only real difference is the air springs on the Touring).
Absolutely, I'd expect stuff would need replacing at some point if it hadn't already - but since the current owner has done a few bits, but can't evidence what the previous owners have done, it's the usual minefield of what could go, and how much could it cost.What sought of costs might the rear end work incur, given a £35ph labour charge?
Suggest you veer over to BMW General and ask there:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&a...
When I had mine done I also had the front done, and a load of other stuff including a clutch and some engine ancilliary work (breather systems are a weak spot on these and often need replacement at this sort of age to keep the oil consumption sensible). So it was all on one bill and I can't give you chapterand verse on what the labour looks like for the rear on its own.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&a...
When I had mine done I also had the front done, and a load of other stuff including a clutch and some engine ancilliary work (breather systems are a weak spot on these and often need replacement at this sort of age to keep the oil consumption sensible). So it was all on one bill and I can't give you chapterand verse on what the labour looks like for the rear on its own.
Edited by Lowtimer on Monday 14th July 17:04
A couple of other things I can remember:
Fuel lines sometimes need replacing. They can be a faff in the Touring. I think I paid £180 for mine. The garage quoted fixed price and wished they hadn't!
The autobox has been mentioned before. It's not uncommon for them to give up somewhere around 150k. All the specialists I spoke to recommended changing the ATF around 70k miles. As a relative youngster on 100k it may be prudent. Circa £1500 for a full rebuild if/when it does go.
Rust - Arches & boot lid are common.
Washer pump and lines also have a finite life as the lines get very brittle & the pump wears out. The pump is an easy fix but the lines can be fiddly. I got a local garage (or in PH parlance my trusted mechanic) to do those & it was about an hours labour + the cost of some tubing.
It may sound like doom & gloom but they are excellent cars. There is a local 540 Manual Sport Touring that I seriously covet!
Fuel lines sometimes need replacing. They can be a faff in the Touring. I think I paid £180 for mine. The garage quoted fixed price and wished they hadn't!
The autobox has been mentioned before. It's not uncommon for them to give up somewhere around 150k. All the specialists I spoke to recommended changing the ATF around 70k miles. As a relative youngster on 100k it may be prudent. Circa £1500 for a full rebuild if/when it does go.
Rust - Arches & boot lid are common.
Washer pump and lines also have a finite life as the lines get very brittle & the pump wears out. The pump is an easy fix but the lines can be fiddly. I got a local garage (or in PH parlance my trusted mechanic) to do those & it was about an hours labour + the cost of some tubing.
It may sound like doom & gloom but they are excellent cars. There is a local 540 Manual Sport Touring that I seriously covet!
I ran a 525i for 18 months, but mine was a sport saloon, I sold mine and pretty much regretted it immediately, it was a fantastic car but I didn't get on the with E46 330i that replaced it. On reflection I wish I had waited and sought out a manual 530i, the 525i certainly wasn't lacking, but I did miss the extra power/torque. I specifically wanted a manual and from memory only approx. 400 E39 530i were manual sport saloons, trying to find a decent one when the newest cars were 10 years old was an impossible task.
As others have said I would buy on condition and history and not mileage, which is why I ended up with an immaculate 525i, not a 530i. However with a higher mileage auto the gearbox would concern me, budget for a fluid an filter change. Some boxes will do 200k, but the trend seems to be that between 100 - 150k miles is when any problems are likely to appear.
The cooling system and suspension are the two areas I would be budgeting for. Thankfully my cooling system had been sorted, but the suspension re-fresh made a huge difference. I didn't get around to doing the shocks and springs, but I did all the suspension arms, drop links and arb bushes, not cheap at all but worth it.
Oh and check for rust, mostly it is quite obvious (boot, sills and arches are the most common), but do also check the jacking points, as these are mostly hidden under plastic and can hide quite a considerable amount of corrosion.
Also be sure to check the MOT history, I nearly got caught out with a clocked one when buying mine, these cars can hide the miles well, if they are looked after.
As others have said I would buy on condition and history and not mileage, which is why I ended up with an immaculate 525i, not a 530i. However with a higher mileage auto the gearbox would concern me, budget for a fluid an filter change. Some boxes will do 200k, but the trend seems to be that between 100 - 150k miles is when any problems are likely to appear.
The cooling system and suspension are the two areas I would be budgeting for. Thankfully my cooling system had been sorted, but the suspension re-fresh made a huge difference. I didn't get around to doing the shocks and springs, but I did all the suspension arms, drop links and arb bushes, not cheap at all but worth it.
Oh and check for rust, mostly it is quite obvious (boot, sills and arches are the most common), but do also check the jacking points, as these are mostly hidden under plastic and can hide quite a considerable amount of corrosion.
Also be sure to check the MOT history, I nearly got caught out with a clocked one when buying mine, these cars can hide the miles well, if they are looked after.
Edited by CB 987 on Monday 14th July 18:45
Thanks again. I think I've managed to talk myself out of doing anything whilst I was discussing the options with my wife. Changing for the short term seems like a fairly significant risk - what I might save (maybe a grand or so) is immediately at risk if something does need some attention. The Focus is a known quantity - I had it for seven years and 65k miles, and I've looked after it. It may end up needing work itself, but the phrase 'better the devil you know' keeps running through my mind. On the plus side, a leap from the Focus to an S4 may just be worth waiting for. They are already at the £17k mark, so it can't be that long before £15k is a realistic prospect.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff