Tuesday 15th July 2014

Clio Renaultsport 200 Turbo: PH Fleet

Is there a wheel-cocking, lift-off oversteering hooligan within the Clio's sensible skin? Yes!

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So, Dan's case for the defence did little more than trigger another 60-odd comments, ranging from the disengaged to the downright vitriolic, to further bloody the already red nose of our Clio Renaultsport. Indeed, sending it back into the ring (that's the one without the apostrophe) with another update, knowing the inevitable rain of blows that will follow, feels almost cruel.

PH Clio formation team with Dan T leading Dan M

Still, if one thing can be relied on more than the internet's lack of mercy, it's a journalist's knack of seeing things in shades of grey. Although, as one of the old faithful, I find the Clio Renaultsport's new direction a tough pill to swallow, and the end product frustratingly flawed, I keep seeing the good in it. Ultimately, I agree with Dan that there's a great car hiding beneath the jelly mould exterior.

If that sounds like I'm developing a soft spot for the 200, perhaps it's because I am, and it's all because I've finally discovered its wild side. There is, after all, a fizz of excitement to offset the sensible, focus group-derived five-door shell and gimmicky sound synthesiser. And, most significantly, 'New Renaultsport' still remembers the old recipe for fun; the principle ingredients being an inside rear wheel cocked in the air and armfuls of oversteer.

There IS a hot Clio in there, just took finding

While the epiphany occurred during Renaultsport's recent track evening at the Bedford Autodrome, the signs had been there for a few weeks. I'd been noticing more mobility from the back end on roundabouts - the Clio was starting to show willing. Given Bedford's breathing space, it didn't take long to turn that glimmer of hope into reality. Whether it was a result of the part-worn tyres, or a bit more commitment on my part, I'm not sure, but within a couple of laps, any doubts about the Clio 200's chassis adjustability were soon cast aside(ways). See the vid for proof.

Chuck it in hard on the brakes and it'll happily go very sideways, and better still, the lock comes on instinctively, the feedback is accurate and there's no sudden snap when it grips again. Fast it most definitely wasn't, but bloody hell was it fun! You might have to strip away the layers of maturity to find it, but that three-letter word is definitely at the heart of the chassis dynamics.

Danny's skiddy cornering from Dan's chase car

Sadly, Bedford's hairpins also brought a sharp reminder of the Clio's lack of traction. Get on the throttle too early exiting a tight corner and you're punished with howling tyres and understeer. The only solution is to wait... and wait... and wait some more. On the road it's never an issue, but on track it's pure torture.

This month has also seen the Clio undertake a mini-tour of Europe's significant motorsport car parks. Beginning with the 'ring, for Megane Trophy launch, it then headed down to Goodwood for the Festival of Speed, followed a week later with a trip to the British Grand Prix for Friday practice.

Although FoS was typically magical, it was the F1 that really stood out for me. As a guest of Renaultsport I was treated to a backstage tour of the paddock, spending 20 minutes in each of the partner garages during the second free practice session.

Meanwhile in F1 Renault also has a point to prove

With headsets on and plugged into team radios, an eventful and fascinating 80 minutes began in the Lotus pit. As usual Grosjean was complaining bitterly about the balance of the E22 Lotus. "Is it inconsistent under braking?" asked Ayao Komatsu, his race engineer. "No, everywhere", came the reply. Maldonado on the other hand, kept his car in one piece, which was worthy of a celebration in itself. I resisted the temptation to applaud him as we left.

Next up it was Red Bull, and from the moment we walked through the swish automatic sliding door the place smelt of money and success. Flat screens covered the walls of the garage, displaying reams of data in a rainbow of pretty colours. Both Vettel and Ricciardo were in the garage, sitting in their cars, going through debriefs. Vettel already had a note of resignation in his voice. Ricciardo decided four clicks extra on the front wing was "extreme".

A few doors down, at Caterham, the contrast was stark. The walls shook as we shut the door to the viewing area, a pair of flatscreens hung apologetically from the overhead gantry and Marcus Ericsson's voice crackled in over the radio reporting engine failure.

Red Bull another world from other Renault teams

The last stop was Torro Rosso and almost immediately drama unfolded as Jean Eric Vergne's wheel tried to make a break for the Northamptonshire countryside. The mechanics looked bemused and Kvyat was called in for urgent checks. "We'll tell you why later", came the reassuring message from his race engineer. When Kvyat rolled in, the whole garage gathered around the front suspension. A man with designer spectacles prodded and probed, looked thoughtful, and tested for brake clearance. He gave the all clear and Kvyat headed back out, no one seemingly any the wiser as to what caused Vergne's issue.

Obviously the point of the trip was to highlight Renaultsport's work at the highest echelons of motorsport, and point out the increasing relevance of F1 tech to road car development thanks to the introduction of fuel restrictions and smaller, turbocharged engines. However, at present the reality, to put it mildly, is a PR challenge. Most F1 pundits seem confident that Renault will be back in the game sooner or later, and I'm equally hopeful the Clio RS can, with some work, live up to expectations.

On track at Bedford

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FACT SHEET
Car: Clio Renaultsport 200 Turbo EDC LUX
Run by: Danny Milner
On fleet since: April 2014
Mileage: 6,009
List price new: £21,535 (Basic list of £19,995 plus £650 for Cup Chassis including revised spring/damper rates, gloss black 18-inch wheels, red brake calipers and Dunlop Sport Maxx TT tyres, £595 for Flame Red i.d. metallic paint, £295 for Renaultsport Monitor)
Last month at a glance: Wheel cocking, lift-off oversteering hooligan finally makes an appearance, Danny's grin grows accordingly

Previous updates:
Clio arrives on the PH Fleet; faces an uphill struggle for popular opinion
PH 'accidentally' ends up in an impromptu Clio Cup race at Spa
Danny heads to Scotland in search of the Clio's hidden depths

Bedford photos: Chris Teagles

[Dave G fsi]

The problem is, when you are really trying to make a car seem good, is it not just yourself you are kidding? If a car is good, it should leap out at you the first time you drive it, not be something that takes weeks/months to potentially realise

And with half the article being on a different subject, it still isn't boding well....

[Benstermin]

Didn't the 197 have an equally lukewarm reception when Renault released it?

[mikesalt]

Second part of the argument reads as "because racing car" to me!

[Kenny Powers]

I'm sorry, but that article seems like a bit of PR spin to me.

I'm not normally one to post negative views of articles, and I do appreciate the effort that goes into providing them, but this one just makes me think of that current thread about motoring journalism.

[jimjim150]

It just doesn't look the part! I even prefer the 197 to this!

(Also, have you seen the size of the Renault badge on the new Meg RS facelift!!)

Edited by jimjim150 on Tuesday 15th July 16:28

[loose cannon]

Massive renaultsport fan hear but after having followed a new fiesta st on the night run on Saturday night, and comparing prices etc and having driven the new clio Rs my money would go on the fiesta ST

[TB Rich]

Kenny Powers said:

I'm sorry, but that article seems like a bit of PR spin to me.

Indeed, I'd write nice things about a 200T if I was invited the Tophy launch event at the 'ring and also invited as a guest to Renault F1 to the British GP!

[Dan Trent]

I don't usually rise but heaven forbid we attempt to provide a hopefully informed, contexualised counterpoint to what seems like accepted wisdom, based on direct experience...



And I'm sure a long and glittering career in writing PR fluff awaits when we describe elements of the car's handling as 'pure torture', evaluate a troubled motorsport programme as a 'PR challenge' and conclude that the car needs further development before it 'lives up to expectations'.

Cheers,

Dan

[britsportscars]

I hope the styling grows on me like the last few fast Renaultsport Clios. I need to have a test drive, but the fact that it went from N/A engine and manual 3door to 5 door, auto with a turbo engine seems like a risk... Especially as everyone is raving about the Fiesta ST...

[Kenny Powers]

Dan Trent said:

I don't usually rise but heaven forbid we attempt to provide a hopefully informed, contexualised counterpoint to what seems like accepted wisdom, based on direct experience...



And I'm sure a long and glittering career in writing PR fluff awaits when we describe elements of the car's handling as 'pure torture', evaluate a troubled motorsport programme as a 'PR challenge' and conclude that the car needs further development before it 'lives up to expectations'.

Cheers,

Dan

No offence intended, Dan. I personally do appreciate all the effort that you guys put in to provide us with this content, and I fully realise that it's often a thankless task. But really, the Clio has suddenly started oversteering? What, is it because it's now run-in? Or is it because it's clear to see on circuit that it's being heavily provoked? No problem with that, but are we to believe that this is the first time it's been driven in such a way? Again, I'm sorry, but no matter how you cut it, this article reads like a press release.

Edited by Kenny Powers on Tuesday 15th July 22:43

[footsoldier]

Unless things have changed since December, this is the only option in its class if you want a good chassis, 5 doors and a paddle shift combined.

My wife got one at Christmas (on my recommendation) for those reasons, and she thinks it's great. My kids like the sound effects function...

Not sure what that all proves...

Compared to other options it is a good compromise, it just maybe isn't focused enough in some areas, but that's probably because it's not meant to be any more.

The first choice was an A45 AMG, but after 2 non-productive trips to dealer, and numerous unanswered emails, including the one where i had specced and asked for the final price to place deposit, I gave up trying to buy one!

Now 100% happy to have saved the cash and bought the Clio.

[Dan Trent]

Kenny Powers said:

No offence intended, Dan. I personally do appreciate all the effort that you guys put in to provide us with this content, and I fully realise that it's often a thankless task. But really, the Clio has suddenly started oversteering? What, is it because it's now run-in? Or is it because it's clear to see on circuit that it's being heavily provoked? No problem with that, but are we to believe that this is the first time it's been driven in such a way? Again, I'm sorry, but no matter how you cut it, this article reads like a press release.

Previous update said:

...although the steering is quick and direct, there's more understeer than you'd like. Trail brake and the front will respond far more promptly. Indeed, it quickly becomes clear that turning in on the brakes is the key to decent progress in the Clio

Latest update said:

I'd been noticing more mobility from the back end on roundabouts - the Clio was starting to show willing. Given Bedford's breathing space, it didn't take long to turn that glimmer of hope into reality. Whether it was a result of the part-worn tyres, or a bit more commitment on my part, I'm not sure

So Danny has acknowledged factors - tyre wear, growing confidence in the car - in this 'discovery' and it's part of a long-term loan that we have opportunity to explore these things you don't have a chance to do on a launch or week-long test booking. That, to me, is the value of them and why I wanted us to run a Clio on an extended basis. I'd suspected it had talents that didn't necessarily show themselves on first acquaintance and took a while to unearth and that would seem to bear out. The Fiesta, on the other hand, gives you everything in the first few hundred yards and I think that's why it's made such an impression - on a test drive it'd come across as much more the exciting car.

That's by the by though; what's deeply tiresome is the implication that it's impossible to highlight positive aspects of a car - heavily qualified in this instance - without the suggestion we're somehow influenced by the manufacturer.

Cheers,

Dan

[dukebox9reg]

Dan Trent said:

So Danny has acknowledged factors - tyre wear, growing confidence in the car - in this 'discovery' and it's part of a long-term loan that we have opportunity to explore these things you don't have a chance to do on a launch or week-long test booking. That, to me, is the value of them and why I wanted us to run a Clio on an extended basis. I'd suspected it had talents that didn't necessarily show themselves on first acquaintance and took a while to unearth and that would seem to bear out. The Fiesta, on the other hand, gives you everything in the first few hundred yards and I think that's why it's made such an impression - on a test drive it'd come across as much more the exciting car.

That's by the by though; what's deeply tiresome is the implication that it's impossible to highlight positive aspects of a car - heavily qualified in this instance - without the suggestion we're somehow influenced by the manufacturer.

Cheers,

Dan

Agree with the Fiesta, shines on the test drive. All I hear from owners now is the ride is dreadful and gives them back ache but still awesome when you want to be on it.

[Porkie]

I was at the Renaultsport evening and had a drive in one. Was thoroughly impressed. Great little car. Faster than I was expecting, loads of grip, lots of fun in corners. Even the interior was nice for a Renault. VERY good little car. I liked the gearbox a lot as well.

[Kenny Powers]

Dan Trent said:

So Danny has acknowledged factors - tyre wear, growing confidence in the car - in this 'discovery' and it's part of a long-term loan that we have opportunity to explore these things you don't have a chance to do on a launch or week-long test booking. That, to me, is the value of them and why I wanted us to run a Clio on an extended basis. I'd suspected it had talents that didn't necessarily show themselves on first acquaintance and took a while to unearth and that would seem to bear out. The Fiesta, on the other hand, gives you everything in the first few hundred yards and I think that's why it's made such an impression - on a test drive it'd come across as much more the exciting car.

That's by the by though; what's deeply tiresome is the implication that it's impossible to highlight positive aspects of a car - heavily qualified in this instance - without the suggestion we're somehow influenced by the manufacturer.

Cheers,

Dan

Fair enough. Perhaps I misinterpreted the article. Keep up the good work chaps

[aelord]

Dan Trent said:

So Danny has acknowledged factors - tyre wear, growing confidence in the car - in this 'discovery' and it's part of a long-term loan that we have opportunity to explore these things you don't have a chance to do on a launch or week-long test booking. That, to me, is the value of them and why I wanted us to run a Clio on an extended basis. I'd suspected it had talents that didn't necessarily show themselves on first acquaintance and took a while to unearth and that would seem to bear out. The Fiesta, on the other hand, gives you everything in the first few hundred yards and I think that's why it's made such an impression - on a test drive it'd come across as much more the exciting car.

That's by the by though; what's deeply tiresome is the implication that it's impossible to highlight positive aspects of a car - heavily qualified in this instance - without the suggestion we're somehow influenced by the manufacturer.

Cheers,

Dan

Dan the insurmountable problem is that you were a very privileged guest of Renaultsport in the paddock at the F1, a direct conflict of interests when it comes to reviewing objectivity, however hard I am sure you tried.

[G7EGT]

It's funny you are not allowed to say anything good about the Clio even if it is true, keep going Dan.

[jerrytlr]

aelord said:

Dan the insurmountable problem is that you were a very privileged guest of Renaultsport in the paddock at the F1, a direct conflict of interests when it comes to reviewing objectivity, however hard I am sure you tried.

Rubbish. I am quite sure Dan is capable of writing what he thinks however much fun he has had at Renault's expense. Of all the journalists on here he of all people I am sure tells it straight. I also get the idea that it takes a while to really find out what a car is like - my Subaru Legacy SpecB was a bit disappointing for the first few weeks but then I started to get it - and still have it 80,000 miles later despite originally buying it as a stop gap car. Dan thinks the same may be true of the Clio, and I for one am grateful to him for continuing to give us his honest views.

What does amaze me is the negativity about this car on here - OK it is a change in formula from previous Renaultsport Clios but that does not make it a bad car. I have test driven one and it is definitely on my shortlist for next car. A really excellent all round package without the tediousness (and price) of a Golf.

I have not driven the Fiesta ST, I am sure that is great too, but next to the Clio it looks very cheap inside, just seems like a vehicle from the next level down, not really in the same bracket as the Clio any more.

Thanks for the good work Dan

Cheers

Jerry

[iloveboost]

From watching other videos, etc on the 200 Turbo it seems like the suspension is softer and it understeers more than before. Maybe the phrase: 'Is there a wheel-cocking, lift-off oversteering hooligan within the Clio's sensible skin? Yes!' is a bit mis-leading so some people are upset about that?
In the article he says the Clio will only go a bit sideways if you 'provoke' it with the steering and brakes otherwise it's ok on track but better on the road. It seems fair to me.