8 grand SUV. BMW X5 (E53) or Mercedes ML (W163) ?
Discussion
I've been an ardent SUV/4x4 hater for most of my life but since owning this last year
(2001 Grand Cherokee 4.0 Limited), I have been a bit of an SUV/4x4 convert. I loved the high driving position, comfort, space and practicality and the winters are pretty harsh in this part of the world , so the "off-road" ability and high ground clearance were a godsend, as a lot of the smaller roads that I use every day aren't cleared of snow around here. Unfortunately, it was far from reliable and despite appearing to be in good condition for its age, we had a string of expensive problems, culminating in it requiring a new gearbox. Rather than cough up the repair bill, we decided to chop it in for a new car, albeit a fairly ordinary FWD saloon.
I miss it terribly though and as my 10 year-old-car is up for renewal I'm considering trading it in for another SUV/4x4. Budget is up to about 8 grand, so probably looking at a 2004-2007 vehicle in decent condition with reasonable miles. Don't really want diesel, as I think a large petrol engine will probably be more reliable and I don't do many miles. This car is for me and the car will remain as the "family" car, apart from on longer trips. I would prefer something that feels a bit more modern to drive than a Jeep with more power and (relatively) better fuel economy. My 4.0 Jeep had 190bhp and did 18mpg!
The current favourites are one of these:
E53 X5 with either the 3.0 petrol or V8
or 2004-2005 ML350 or ML500 (W163). I think the newer MLs are overbudget and although not essential, I would like to try and find one with the 7-seat option. I worked at a Mercedes dealership when these were new and always liked them (although I never drove one)! I've heard they're not great but the facelift (post-2002) models are much better?
Am I potentially looking at a whole world of pain again? I could of course get a newer car for my money but nothing I have seen really appeals. Are there any other SUVs/4x4s that I should consider?
I have considered:
Nice but a bit schoolrunnish!
Lovely but poor reliability and potentially crippling repair bills?
2006-2010 Grand Cherokee. Don't actually like the styling or interior as much as my 2001 but a Hemi engine might go some way to make up for that! The new-shape (2011-) Grand Cherokees are awesome but way over budget!
Something American?
Chevrolet Trailblazer? Cheap but truck-based, so probably as agricultural as my old Jeep and I don't think I like them as much as the Jeeps!
(2001 Grand Cherokee 4.0 Limited), I have been a bit of an SUV/4x4 convert. I loved the high driving position, comfort, space and practicality and the winters are pretty harsh in this part of the world , so the "off-road" ability and high ground clearance were a godsend, as a lot of the smaller roads that I use every day aren't cleared of snow around here. Unfortunately, it was far from reliable and despite appearing to be in good condition for its age, we had a string of expensive problems, culminating in it requiring a new gearbox. Rather than cough up the repair bill, we decided to chop it in for a new car, albeit a fairly ordinary FWD saloon.
I miss it terribly though and as my 10 year-old-car is up for renewal I'm considering trading it in for another SUV/4x4. Budget is up to about 8 grand, so probably looking at a 2004-2007 vehicle in decent condition with reasonable miles. Don't really want diesel, as I think a large petrol engine will probably be more reliable and I don't do many miles. This car is for me and the car will remain as the "family" car, apart from on longer trips. I would prefer something that feels a bit more modern to drive than a Jeep with more power and (relatively) better fuel economy. My 4.0 Jeep had 190bhp and did 18mpg!
The current favourites are one of these:
E53 X5 with either the 3.0 petrol or V8
or 2004-2005 ML350 or ML500 (W163). I think the newer MLs are overbudget and although not essential, I would like to try and find one with the 7-seat option. I worked at a Mercedes dealership when these were new and always liked them (although I never drove one)! I've heard they're not great but the facelift (post-2002) models are much better?
Am I potentially looking at a whole world of pain again? I could of course get a newer car for my money but nothing I have seen really appeals. Are there any other SUVs/4x4s that I should consider?
I have considered:
Nice but a bit schoolrunnish!
Lovely but poor reliability and potentially crippling repair bills?
2006-2010 Grand Cherokee. Don't actually like the styling or interior as much as my 2001 but a Hemi engine might go some way to make up for that! The new-shape (2011-) Grand Cherokees are awesome but way over budget!
Something American?
Chevrolet Trailblazer? Cheap but truck-based, so probably as agricultural as my old Jeep and I don't think I like them as much as the Jeeps!
Edited by white_goodman on Wednesday 23 July 16:34
My dad has an E53 X5 and has had from new. It's got the M54 (3.0 petrol) and has always been great. Has done some off-roading and been competent with it. Even driven through floods! The 4.4 V8 doesn't have that much worse economy, too. And it's a V8. Car has 180,000 miles on it now and still runs beautifully and starts on the button.
I have a facelift ML55. While it will not better the MPG your Jeep gets, it is probably a lot more fun. 350hp and an AMG V8 sound track.
When I bought it friends predicted doom and gloom on the reliability front but it has been fine. It developed a power steering leak which is a well known issue and is cured with 15 mins of DIY and a new O ring. You are correct to avoid the pre facelift models.
Available for a lot less than your budget
When I bought it friends predicted doom and gloom on the reliability front but it has been fine. It developed a power steering leak which is a well known issue and is cured with 15 mins of DIY and a new O ring. You are correct to avoid the pre facelift models.
Available for a lot less than your budget
andy43 said:
Those Landcruisers are pretty awesome. Probably one of the most durable and reliable vehicles you can buy too no doubt! Better to drive than an X5 or ML on the road though? I hate the phrase because if you want something to drive like a car, buy a car but I would prefer something that has more car-like ride, handling and refinement to the Jeep. Should have also mentioned that I'm not in UK (Canada actually). For some reason, Toyota SUVs and trucks command a massive premium on the used vehicle market here. Even a similarly aged Landcruiser with high kms will cost double the price of an X5/ML (which are closer to UK prices). IanRubie said:
I have a facelift ML55. While it will not better the MPG your Jeep gets, it is probably a lot more fun. 350hp and an AMG V8 sound track.
When I bought it friends predicted doom and gloom on the reliability front but it has been fine. It developed a power steering leak which is a well known issue and is cured with 15 mins of DIY and a new O ring. You are correct to avoid the pre facelift models.
Available for a lot less than your budget
I had a face lift ML270 for 5 years from new. Fantastic work horse and very reliable. Diesel engine not the smoothest but on the motorway it was fine. Lots out there, 7 seven seat option is rare. ML500 are usually fully loaded. Watch for rust under the wheel arches and on the tailgate. Can be fixed under Mercedes 30year corrosion warranty if main dealer serviced. Great car. Would love to own an ML55 as well but my ML420 will have to do for the moment.When I bought it friends predicted doom and gloom on the reliability front but it has been fine. It developed a power steering leak which is a well known issue and is cured with 15 mins of DIY and a new O ring. You are correct to avoid the pre facelift models.
Available for a lot less than your budget
If we are doing shots....
Let's see the LC interior?
On the X5, we currently have a FFRR and a E53 X5. When I did not drive it too often it was ok. As a daily driver it is awful. I can not live with the insane Sports suspension. I know it should be firm, but it is just daft. It's going as given any opportunity I take the Range Rover, which is not good for my pocket or it's mileage.
Our dog will be pleased - currently if we come to a B road he stands as he finds it too bumpy to sit down!
Let's see the LC interior?
On the X5, we currently have a FFRR and a E53 X5. When I did not drive it too often it was ok. As a daily driver it is awful. I can not live with the insane Sports suspension. I know it should be firm, but it is just daft. It's going as given any opportunity I take the Range Rover, which is not good for my pocket or it's mileage.
Our dog will be pleased - currently if we come to a B road he stands as he finds it too bumpy to sit down!
surveyor said:
If we are doing shots....
Let's see the LC interior?
On the X5, we currently have a FFRR and a E53 X5. When I did not drive it too often it was ok. As a daily driver it is awful. I can not live with the insane Sports suspension. I know it should be firm, but it is just daft. It's going as given any opportunity I take the Range Rover, which is not good for my pocket or it's mileage.
Our dog will be pleased - currently if we come to a B road he stands as he finds it too bumpy to sit down!
That's a lovely interior but I still think financial destitution would loom with a FFRR. You're a braver man than me! Yes, I've heard that about the sports suspension on the X5. I would probably be looking to seek one without it, as I have no real need to go around corners really quickly!Let's see the LC interior?
On the X5, we currently have a FFRR and a E53 X5. When I did not drive it too often it was ok. As a daily driver it is awful. I can not live with the insane Sports suspension. I know it should be firm, but it is just daft. It's going as given any opportunity I take the Range Rover, which is not good for my pocket or it's mileage.
Our dog will be pleased - currently if we come to a B road he stands as he finds it too bumpy to sit down!
Full Fat Range Rover. If you want something with a bit more get up and go (not sure about Canada) you could look for an Overfinch example?
10 year old examples seem to fetch between 5k-6k, and quite a few rich toffs around here have Range Rovers, and you can see a few of them chugging around, piloted by blonde ladies who are vastly more interested in their friend's latest facebook update than ever thinking about maintenance, but they've never gone wrong.
So they're pretty hardy really.
10 year old examples seem to fetch between 5k-6k, and quite a few rich toffs around here have Range Rovers, and you can see a few of them chugging around, piloted by blonde ladies who are vastly more interested in their friend's latest facebook update than ever thinking about maintenance, but they've never gone wrong.
So they're pretty hardy really.
Thanks for all the feedback. Sounds like I need to try both. $ for $ the ML is much better value than the X5 but some quite negative reviews on here (but mainly with the earlier cars (320s) and mainly diesels? I like the look of them, the value, the possibility of 7 seats and traditionally Mercedes have been my favourite non-exotic cars but if it's hateful to drive then that would probably rule it out for me! Sounds like some of you quite like them though! Likewise, some good reviews of the X5 but it sounds like I need to avoid the sports suspension, as comfort is much more important to me than sports car handling. I'm not sure whether the one I have seen advertised has sports suspension or not.
As for the alternatives? Yes, I would love a Range Rover but still think it's a good example of a car that if you can't afford to buy it new, you can't afford to run it at 10 years old! It's a shame they're not as simple as the "classic" Range Rover, as if I was writing this thread 10 years ago, I would have been quite happy to have a pop at a 10 year old Range Rover! Money no object though, that would definitely be my choice.
Landcruiser is a very good suggestion but a relatively expensive one (here at any rate) and I don't see any up for sale at all in my province. I also wonder whether it's a better off than on-road drive and although I want some off-road capability, I don't serious "off-road" and how it handles on the road is more important to me.
Does anyone have any experience with the 2006-2010 Jeep Grand Cherokees?
Also, these seem quite good value second-hand. Any good?
As for the alternatives? Yes, I would love a Range Rover but still think it's a good example of a car that if you can't afford to buy it new, you can't afford to run it at 10 years old! It's a shame they're not as simple as the "classic" Range Rover, as if I was writing this thread 10 years ago, I would have been quite happy to have a pop at a 10 year old Range Rover! Money no object though, that would definitely be my choice.
Landcruiser is a very good suggestion but a relatively expensive one (here at any rate) and I don't see any up for sale at all in my province. I also wonder whether it's a better off than on-road drive and although I want some off-road capability, I don't serious "off-road" and how it handles on the road is more important to me.
Does anyone have any experience with the 2006-2010 Jeep Grand Cherokees?
Also, these seem quite good value second-hand. Any good?
Edited by white_goodman on Wednesday 23 July 20:01
We had a brand new ML back in 2004 and I can honestly say it was one of the worst cars we have owned, really not Mercedes Benz's finest hour, terrible build quality, cheap plastics, many breakdowns, the list just goes on, compared to the BMW its in a different league and priced more now for that very reason I imagine. I also note that there have been a few suggestions for the Range Rover, having had 2 of these new I really can't see all the fuss, yes they are a fabulous place to be, great road presence, great comfort, and terrible reliability, as the service manager said to me and I quote "I can't see what the problem is Sir thats what the warranty is there for, this was after being recovered from the side of the road for the 10th time in what was then a 70k car, why anyone would want to run either of these cars outside warranty is beyond me! stick to a X5 V8 nice car with great engine!
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