Known issue or more serious?
Discussion
Drove out to Henley this afternoon, fine on the way there and then got caught in rush hour.
Sat in traffic in Marlow for about 30 minutes during which time the temperature climbed to around 100 degs centrigrade and pretty much stayed there for the duration of the drive back into London. Hovering between 90 and 100 for an hour and a half or so.
Get almost all the way home and as soon as I dip the clutch or lift my foot off the accelerator the engine dies, just drops all the way off the rev counter and stalls.
On restart it runs very very lumpy indeed and has continued to stall 2 or 3 more times on the way home with the same symptoms.
Now is this related to the heat and being sat in traffic or should I be readying myself to watch it leave on the back of an AA truck again!
BTW the car is a 2001 Chimaera 450.
Thanks in advance.
Matt.
>>> Edited by plotloss on Thursday 25th July 19:27
Sat in traffic in Marlow for about 30 minutes during which time the temperature climbed to around 100 degs centrigrade and pretty much stayed there for the duration of the drive back into London. Hovering between 90 and 100 for an hour and a half or so.
Get almost all the way home and as soon as I dip the clutch or lift my foot off the accelerator the engine dies, just drops all the way off the rev counter and stalls.
On restart it runs very very lumpy indeed and has continued to stall 2 or 3 more times on the way home with the same symptoms.
Now is this related to the heat and being sat in traffic or should I be readying myself to watch it leave on the back of an AA truck again!
BTW the car is a 2001 Chimaera 450.
Thanks in advance.
Matt.
>>> Edited by plotloss on Thursday 25th July 19:27
My Griff went up to 100 which is not normal and two things happened. It had blew a head gasket, and water was leaking into the oil and this was causing the overheating. Check the oil level hasn't gone up and look for mayo in the filler cap and the second thing is that the ECU goes into damage limitation mode and tries to stop the engine from inflicting any more damage on it. Gets lumpy etc and so on. Recovered when it cools down.
If it normally doesn't get to 100 in traffic, then there probably is something wrong.
If it is a head problem then it can be expensive. I caught mine in time and didn't need new heads. If the engine is not stopped, the heads can warp and then we are into four figures...
It is also possible that the engine has coked up the stepper motor and this needs a clean.
Try cleaning it, check that the oil level has not gone up, the water level gone down and that you don't have any mayo on the dipstick or filler.
If the temp gets to 100 and stays there, there is a problem. The handbook says stop the car if the temp hits 100 or above and stays there. Maybe one of the fans failed or something but it should start ringing all sorts of warning bells. If they are ignored then it can get very expensive indeed.
I hope it isn't though...
Steve
Get it checked ASAP. It wasn't that hot today.
Steve
>> Edited by shpub on Thursday 25th July 19:44
If it normally doesn't get to 100 in traffic, then there probably is something wrong.
If it is a head problem then it can be expensive. I caught mine in time and didn't need new heads. If the engine is not stopped, the heads can warp and then we are into four figures...
It is also possible that the engine has coked up the stepper motor and this needs a clean.
Try cleaning it, check that the oil level has not gone up, the water level gone down and that you don't have any mayo on the dipstick or filler.
If the temp gets to 100 and stays there, there is a problem. The handbook says stop the car if the temp hits 100 or above and stays there. Maybe one of the fans failed or something but it should start ringing all sorts of warning bells. If they are ignored then it can get very expensive indeed.
I hope it isn't though...
Steve
Get it checked ASAP. It wasn't that hot today.
Steve
>> Edited by shpub on Thursday 25th July 19:44
Thanks Steve!
I was going to try to turn it over a bit later on when it gets a little cooler (the car, not the weather!).
It does usually get to 100 in traffic, but never over that and the fans kick in between 90 and 100.
Will check for Hellmans in the oil cap as well.
Luckily I think everything is covered on warranty but we shall see.
Matt.
I was going to try to turn it over a bit later on when it gets a little cooler (the car, not the weather!).
It does usually get to 100 in traffic, but never over that and the fans kick in between 90 and 100.
Will check for Hellmans in the oil cap as well.
Luckily I think everything is covered on warranty but we shall see.
Matt.
Matt sorry to hear of your problem. Get onto your dealer in the morning if it's a warranty thing I think. The fans were on weren't they?
I am also concerned by this ...
An hour and a half from Marlow to London? How you 'Smoke' guys put up with this is beyond me ... in an hour and a half I could be turning off at the M62 if I went north, in Yarmouth if I went East, Bromsgrove if I go west, and south ... probably at Heathrow.
Move outta the capital and get yer lives back!
I am also concerned by this ...
quote:
Sat in traffic in Marlow for about 30 minutes during which time the temperature climbed to around 100 degs centrigrade and pretty much stayed there for the duration of the drive back into London. Hovering between 90 and 100 for an hour and a half or so.
An hour and a half from Marlow to London? How you 'Smoke' guys put up with this is beyond me ... in an hour and a half I could be turning off at the M62 if I went north, in Yarmouth if I went East, Bromsgrove if I go west, and south ... probably at Heathrow.
Move outta the capital and get yer lives back!
Just went down to check for any sign of Hellmans and nothing on the filler or the dipstick. Also she now starts first time as per normal, although did idle a bit rough at first but a quite five minute reserved spin seemed to sort that (is that the ECU remeasuring air flow and the like at the lower temp??).
Will call the dealer in the morning though just to make sure.
Cheers for your help Steve, I was in a bit of a panic there for a moment. Is there anything that can be done to avoid this scenario in the future? I have heard some talk of a lower temp Otter Switch, will this bring the fans in earlier? Would this be preferable to say a fan override switch or are they better?
Questions, questions. Sorry.
Yes Mikey, the SE as whole is a bit of commuting nightmare, though thats not a bad run, living in Henley and working in Tottenham nigh on killed me though! If I could just convince someone to let me work from home I would be off to the Cotswolds like a shot
Matt.
>> Edited by plotloss on Thursday 25th July 21:34
Will call the dealer in the morning though just to make sure.
Cheers for your help Steve, I was in a bit of a panic there for a moment. Is there anything that can be done to avoid this scenario in the future? I have heard some talk of a lower temp Otter Switch, will this bring the fans in earlier? Would this be preferable to say a fan override switch or are they better?
Questions, questions. Sorry.
Yes Mikey, the SE as whole is a bit of commuting nightmare, though thats not a bad run, living in Henley and working in Tottenham nigh on killed me though! If I could just convince someone to let me work from home I would be off to the Cotswolds like a shot
Matt.
>> Edited by plotloss on Thursday 25th July 21:34
A fan override switch lets you turn the fans on when you want and IMHO essential because otter switches do fail. I also have an indicator that tells me when they have come on so I know what is going on.
A lower temp switching otter switch should be a big help as well. And making sure that the stat is the right one is another thing. All covered in glorious detail in the book.
There is also turning the engine off in queues as well. Switch off the air con as that adds another 5 degrees or more to the temp. Saves fuel as well. Mandatory in switzerland I believe.
A lower temp switching otter switch should be a big help as well. And making sure that the stat is the right one is another thing. All covered in glorious detail in the book.
There is also turning the engine off in queues as well. Switch off the air con as that adds another 5 degrees or more to the temp. Saves fuel as well. Mandatory in switzerland I believe.
I have fitted an adjustable thermo switch which is very easy to fit. from www.mod-wise.com. David Beer does this mod, he is listed in PH
This sounds just like what happened to mine, except after initially running with more lumps than a lumpy thing, it packed up completely!!
Mine was the coil. It broke down completely. The dealer told me they check them at every service by removing them and checking 'for an oil' type substance underneath them, so I' recommned just taking a peak at that also.............
Mine was the coil. It broke down completely. The dealer told me they check them at every service by removing them and checking 'for an oil' type substance underneath them, so I' recommned just taking a peak at that also.............
All this is pretty well covered in the Griff/Chimaera bible which has the benefit of not needing a PC, comms line or batteries to use...
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Don't know whether the engine was actually overheating or what other problems may have caused this, but if the engine gets very hot you can sometimes get fuel vaporisation problems in the fuel rail. Symptoms are similar to fuel starvation, with an unstable idle and loss of power. This is more likely when the car is idling stationary and when the fuel level is low. My fuel rails and hoses, exhaust etc are lagged to reduce the heat soak which causes this.
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
Cheers,
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)
Just spoken to the dealer who advised it sounds like the Stepper Motor but its going on the diagnostic machine at 9am tommorow morning.
Interestingly though he said that it sitting at 100 is perfectly normal.
Will definately as the question about the cooling mods though.
I thought it may have been fuel related at the time, but couldnt imagine why, thanks Peter, I reckon in about 15 years I'll understand how a TVR lump is put together!
Matt.
>> Edited by plotloss on Friday 26th July 11:21
Interestingly though he said that it sitting at 100 is perfectly normal.
Will definately as the question about the cooling mods though. I thought it may have been fuel related at the time, but couldnt imagine why, thanks Peter, I reckon in about 15 years I'll understand how a TVR lump is put together!
Matt.
>> Edited by plotloss on Friday 26th July 11:21
quote:
Interestingly though he said that it sitting at 100 is perfectly normal.
The manual says if the temp goes over 100 and stays there, then stop the car, find the cause and rectify it. 100 is normal for the AJP engines though.
If the car is fine at 100 degrees why have you got problems that will require the dealer to address them?
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
quote:
quote:
Interestingly though he said that it sitting at 100 is perfectly normal.
The manual says if the temp goes over 100 and stays there, then stop the car, find the cause and rectify it. 100 is normal for the AJP engines though.
If the car is fine at 100 degrees why have you got problems that will require the dealer to address them?
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Exactly Steve, hence the confusion.
Still if they break it, they'll have to fix it.
Matt.
quote:
I thought it may have been fuel related at the time, but couldnt imagine why, thanks Peter, I reckon in about 15 years I'll understand how a TVR lump is put together!
Matt.
>> Edited by plotloss on Friday 26th July 11:21
15 years??? My feeling is it could be a lot quicker!!!!!
quote:
quote:
I thought it may have been fuel related at the time, but couldnt imagine why, thanks Peter, I reckon in about 15 years I'll understand how a TVR lump is put together!
Matt.
>> Edited by plotloss on Friday 26th July 11:21
15 years??? My feeling is it could be a lot quicker!!!!!
I fear you over estimate my mechanical aptitude! Either that or this is the top of a slippery slope. Still there is nothing this side of £50K that I would spend the money on other than a TVR.
Matt.
Just contributing my 2p to this interesting thread.
Matt, I've had similar problems with my Chim450 but noone has been able to tell me exactly what's going on. I am not too bothered as this doesn't happen regularly. Basically, I would come to a traffic light/roundabout and the engine revs drops to 500, which sometimes cause the car to stall. What I have found though, was that turning off the ignition and waiting a couple of minutes before starting again would bring everything back to normal. I have a word with David Batty about this. His view as that the ECU programme by TVR do 95% of their job very well whilst the 5% remaining can be somewhat unpredictable. This is what brought me to turning off the ignition and re-start to see what happen - not unsimilar to re-booted a PC running Windows some would say.
I know this is not really a scientific demoonstration, but hey, it does the job for me!
Oh, and my never goes over 90-95. I've got a thermostat that kicks the fans in a 80, which keeps the habitacle confortable even when sitting in traffic with the roof-up.
I heard that a session with Mark Adams was usually the best cure available for this sort of problem.
Steve, Pete what's your view on this? Am I just talking bull****?
Cheers
Roms
Matt, I've had similar problems with my Chim450 but noone has been able to tell me exactly what's going on. I am not too bothered as this doesn't happen regularly. Basically, I would come to a traffic light/roundabout and the engine revs drops to 500, which sometimes cause the car to stall. What I have found though, was that turning off the ignition and waiting a couple of minutes before starting again would bring everything back to normal. I have a word with David Batty about this. His view as that the ECU programme by TVR do 95% of their job very well whilst the 5% remaining can be somewhat unpredictable. This is what brought me to turning off the ignition and re-start to see what happen - not unsimilar to re-booted a PC running Windows some would say.
I know this is not really a scientific demoonstration, but hey, it does the job for me!
Oh, and my never goes over 90-95. I've got a thermostat that kicks the fans in a 80, which keeps the habitacle confortable even when sitting in traffic with the roof-up.
I heard that a session with Mark Adams was usually the best cure available for this sort of problem.
Steve, Pete what's your view on this? Am I just talking bull****?
Cheers
Roms
quote:
Basically, I would come to a traffic light/roundabout and the engine revs drops to 500, which sometimes cause the car to stall.
This is definitely wrong, but there are so many gizmos involved that it can be hard to track down the fault that is causing it. If cleaning the stepper motor doesn't fix it (and it does in 9 out of 10 cases) then your options are replacing the injection system bit by bit, or getting an expert to track the trouble down. Tower View have been very good at tracking down these problems for me in the past, so for me if the problem isn't obvious I'll drop the car off with them for a day and let them do the hard work.
Sorry, but NO way should it sit at 100.I have a theory that the otter switch gradually switches at a higher temperature with age.I recently changed mine,£15,and the car runs about 5 degrees cooler.I also piggy backed David Beers adjustable switch to the otter and set it at 80. The result is that even when I was stuck in Barnet High St last night for about half an hour the indicated temp stayed at just below 90.
So, my advice is change the otter and fit Davids excellent kit.
So, my advice is change the otter and fit Davids excellent kit.
Update:
It wouldnt start Saturday morning without extreme coaxing. Limped over to the dealers for them to fix up the fault diagnosis machine. Nothing on that, so they looked and listened and came up with a coil problem related to the fact that the engine was at 100 so long it cooked the col. So they changed that and all is now well, although still hot getting back into town, must book it in for the otter adjustments etc.
Have to make a noteable mention to Richard and the guys at Henley Heritage. Absolutely marvellous service fitting me in when they didnt really have time even though I was late because the car wouldnt start!! Highly recommended on the whole.
Oh, and this weather, although the car doesnt really like it driving a TVR in this weather makes any tiny little niggle just melt away into the background.
I love this car!
Matt.
It wouldnt start Saturday morning without extreme coaxing. Limped over to the dealers for them to fix up the fault diagnosis machine. Nothing on that, so they looked and listened and came up with a coil problem related to the fact that the engine was at 100 so long it cooked the col. So they changed that and all is now well, although still hot getting back into town, must book it in for the otter adjustments etc.
Have to make a noteable mention to Richard and the guys at Henley Heritage. Absolutely marvellous service fitting me in when they didnt really have time even though I was late because the car wouldnt start!! Highly recommended on the whole.
Oh, and this weather, although the car doesnt really like it driving a TVR in this weather makes any tiny little niggle just melt away into the background.
I love this car!
Matt.
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