Governmant clampdown on parking firms
Discussion
It is the Daily Wail, but I'sd suspect there's no smoke without fire.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713646/We...
Two thought come to mind
Has the gov't woken up to the fact that last years changes did nothing .
Is there an election in the offing and motorists are once more having their asses kissed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713646/We...
Two thought come to mind
Has the gov't woken up to the fact that last years changes did nothing .
Is there an election in the offing and motorists are once more having their asses kissed.
Eric Pickled, self-nominated caped crusader against the private parking enforcement industry 
.
Or is he an alternative Bob The Builder "can we f
k it, yes we can" 
(watch this space 
).
Linked Daily Wail item - while being desperately admiring of various peoples' cars and their value (whither their properties' values? ) - is a bit short on yer actual reality of the situation 'n' all 
.
.Or is he an alternative Bob The Builder "can we f
k it, yes we can" (watch this space ).Linked Daily Wail item - while being desperately admiring of various peoples' cars and their value (whither their properties' values?
) - is a bit short on yer actual reality of the situation 'n' all .Must admit my sympathy for those who receive charges for overstaying their paid for time, or park on private land without permission is limited, where the signage is clear is limited.
Its all very well to say one can only seek a penalty that is in line with the losses incurred but its plainly garbage to say that the losses incurred are the £1 or £2 that the parking was underpaid by.
The reality is many businesses are having to pay thousands of pounds in taking steps to prevent people from parking without authorisation on their land. I expect many wouldn't mind so much if that parking was taking place outside their operational hours and not inconveniencing them but the reality is that drivers will park on private land without authorisation at any time, and without consideration for those that own it or have the right to park there.
The problem then comes in how you stop them from doing it. You could install a gate, however thats a significant cost, and a mojor inconvience as you have to stop top open and/or close it every time you go in/out. In addition it takes up significant space due to the room to open it and the need to leave space between it and the highway. It's also not welcoming to those customers authorised to park in the spaces.
You could install an automatic barrier however they are very expensive to operate and frequently get broken, they also need a token or payment system.
You could pay a person to man the car park, except you need more than one so there's a large cost.
Why should a business be obliged to go to these costs to stop people parking on their land? No one would be impressed if they found people parking on their drive! Indeed we see threads of complaints about it occasionally! If businesses have to go to these costs why shouldn't they be able to seek the costs back from those that break the rules? In official car parks why should those that obey have to pay higher charges because others cant be bothered to obey the rules and therefore enforcement is needed? Incidentally I know the law says you can only charge the loss you have suffered but I think that should be changed.
The reality is that if people didn't think they had a right to park anywhere and actually parted in official car parks, or on the public highway, or obeyed the rules of where they did have consent to park then these parking control companies wouldn't exist in the first place.
Parking issues are a bane to businesses and land owners across the country and they need means to try to prevent people parking anywhere for as long as they like.
Now I know there will be occasions where unscrupulous companies or rogue employees of parking companies take unfair action, and that should be stopped, but employing parking companies is often the last resort of a frustrated business that is fed up with the aggro given by those who park without consideration.
To those who constantly say its not a problem, or you shouldnt pay etc post your address on here so that we can use your drive to park on and see what you say then!
Its all very well to say one can only seek a penalty that is in line with the losses incurred but its plainly garbage to say that the losses incurred are the £1 or £2 that the parking was underpaid by.
The reality is many businesses are having to pay thousands of pounds in taking steps to prevent people from parking without authorisation on their land. I expect many wouldn't mind so much if that parking was taking place outside their operational hours and not inconveniencing them but the reality is that drivers will park on private land without authorisation at any time, and without consideration for those that own it or have the right to park there.
The problem then comes in how you stop them from doing it. You could install a gate, however thats a significant cost, and a mojor inconvience as you have to stop top open and/or close it every time you go in/out. In addition it takes up significant space due to the room to open it and the need to leave space between it and the highway. It's also not welcoming to those customers authorised to park in the spaces.
You could install an automatic barrier however they are very expensive to operate and frequently get broken, they also need a token or payment system.
You could pay a person to man the car park, except you need more than one so there's a large cost.
Why should a business be obliged to go to these costs to stop people parking on their land? No one would be impressed if they found people parking on their drive! Indeed we see threads of complaints about it occasionally! If businesses have to go to these costs why shouldn't they be able to seek the costs back from those that break the rules? In official car parks why should those that obey have to pay higher charges because others cant be bothered to obey the rules and therefore enforcement is needed? Incidentally I know the law says you can only charge the loss you have suffered but I think that should be changed.
The reality is that if people didn't think they had a right to park anywhere and actually parted in official car parks, or on the public highway, or obeyed the rules of where they did have consent to park then these parking control companies wouldn't exist in the first place.
Parking issues are a bane to businesses and land owners across the country and they need means to try to prevent people parking anywhere for as long as they like.
Now I know there will be occasions where unscrupulous companies or rogue employees of parking companies take unfair action, and that should be stopped, but employing parking companies is often the last resort of a frustrated business that is fed up with the aggro given by those who park without consideration.
To those who constantly say its not a problem, or you shouldnt pay etc post your address on here so that we can use your drive to park on and see what you say then!
I agree, there should be a legislated fixed penalty charge that the PPC's and landowners/users can impose.
The current legislation provides for the 'loss' plus the cost to collect. For a free car park there is never a loss as such, and from what I have read more than one County Court judge has taken this view too. The lengths some drivers will take to avoid paying a charge is truly astonishing. Far to many think they can do what they like, and even more appear to support them.
I have suffered the selfish parking recently at my new office. I have 9 parking spaces which I pay for in my rent, but we only use 3 on a regular basis. As it's all open plan (but marked and numbered spaces) there is absolutely nothing I can presently do to stop others parking on our spaces.
The current legislation provides for the 'loss' plus the cost to collect. For a free car park there is never a loss as such, and from what I have read more than one County Court judge has taken this view too. The lengths some drivers will take to avoid paying a charge is truly astonishing. Far to many think they can do what they like, and even more appear to support them.
I have suffered the selfish parking recently at my new office. I have 9 parking spaces which I pay for in my rent, but we only use 3 on a regular basis. As it's all open plan (but marked and numbered spaces) there is absolutely nothing I can presently do to stop others parking on our spaces.
V8 Fettler said:
Where shopping is involved, you'd think that local businesses and local gubbermint would get together to provide ample local, free parking to encourage local people to shop locally.
Many businesses do of course offer free parking, but the problem is enforcement. You can have ample parking for your shop but its no good if office workers park in it, or people then visit your competitors etc.Some local authorities do still provide free parking, it used to be a double whammy for them (if not triple) because they have to provide maintain the car park, the government in calculating the money they needed to operate would assume how much money they could get for parking and deduct that from their operational grants, and they get (actually got now) no contribution from business rates either.
In theory with the apparent need to care for the environment, limit pollution, reduce traffic on roads etc it would seem sensible to encourage free local parking so people werent driving huge distances just to shop.
Chrisgr31 said:
Must admit my sympathy for those who receive charges for overstaying their paid for time, or park on private land without permission is limited, where the signage is clear is limited.
Its all very well to say one can only seek a penalty that is in line with the losses incurred but its plainly garbage to say that the losses incurred are the £1 or £2 that the parking was underpaid by.
The reality is many businesses are having to pay thousands of pounds in taking steps to prevent people from parking without authorisation on their land. I expect many wouldn't mind so much if that parking was taking place outside their operational hours and not inconveniencing them but the reality is that drivers will park on private land without authorisation at any time, and without consideration for those that own it or have the right to park there.
The problem then comes in how you stop them from doing it. You could install a gate, however thats a significant cost, and a mojor inconvience as you have to stop top open and/or close it every time you go in/out. In addition it takes up significant space due to the room to open it and the need to leave space between it and the highway. It's also not welcoming to those customers authorised to park in the spaces.
You could install an automatic barrier however they are very expensive to operate and frequently get broken, they also need a token or payment system.
You could pay a person to man the car park, except you need more than one so there's a large cost.
Why should a business be obliged to go to these costs to stop people parking on their land? No one would be impressed if they found people parking on their drive! Indeed we see threads of complaints about it occasionally! If businesses have to go to these costs why shouldn't they be able to seek the costs back from those that break the rules? In official car parks why should those that obey have to pay higher charges because others cant be bothered to obey the rules and therefore enforcement is needed? Incidentally I know the law says you can only charge the loss you have suffered but I think that should be changed.
The reality is that if people didn't think they had a right to park anywhere and actually parted in official car parks, or on the public highway, or obeyed the rules of where they did have consent to park then these parking control companies wouldn't exist in the first place.
Parking issues are a bane to businesses and land owners across the country and they need means to try to prevent people parking anywhere for as long as they like.
Now I know there will be occasions where unscrupulous companies or rogue employees of parking companies take unfair action, and that should be stopped, but employing parking companies is often the last resort of a frustrated business that is fed up with the aggro given by those who park without consideration.
To those who constantly say its not a problem, or you shouldnt pay etc post your address on here so that we can use your drive to park on and see what you say then!
Ah, but there is private land and private land. The point being that your driveway is hardly a fair comparison with, for example, retail shopping outlet car parks where businesses have an interest in encouraging people to come onto the land in the first place. Without customers they would fold. I would wager that the vast majority of PPC income is generated from such places (and hospitals: systems/regimes which are designed to penalise those who need medical attention and whose duration of stay can be unpredictable are utterly despicable imo) Its all very well to say one can only seek a penalty that is in line with the losses incurred but its plainly garbage to say that the losses incurred are the £1 or £2 that the parking was underpaid by.
The reality is many businesses are having to pay thousands of pounds in taking steps to prevent people from parking without authorisation on their land. I expect many wouldn't mind so much if that parking was taking place outside their operational hours and not inconveniencing them but the reality is that drivers will park on private land without authorisation at any time, and without consideration for those that own it or have the right to park there.
The problem then comes in how you stop them from doing it. You could install a gate, however thats a significant cost, and a mojor inconvience as you have to stop top open and/or close it every time you go in/out. In addition it takes up significant space due to the room to open it and the need to leave space between it and the highway. It's also not welcoming to those customers authorised to park in the spaces.
You could install an automatic barrier however they are very expensive to operate and frequently get broken, they also need a token or payment system.
You could pay a person to man the car park, except you need more than one so there's a large cost.
Why should a business be obliged to go to these costs to stop people parking on their land? No one would be impressed if they found people parking on their drive! Indeed we see threads of complaints about it occasionally! If businesses have to go to these costs why shouldn't they be able to seek the costs back from those that break the rules? In official car parks why should those that obey have to pay higher charges because others cant be bothered to obey the rules and therefore enforcement is needed? Incidentally I know the law says you can only charge the loss you have suffered but I think that should be changed.
The reality is that if people didn't think they had a right to park anywhere and actually parted in official car parks, or on the public highway, or obeyed the rules of where they did have consent to park then these parking control companies wouldn't exist in the first place.
Parking issues are a bane to businesses and land owners across the country and they need means to try to prevent people parking anywhere for as long as they like.
Now I know there will be occasions where unscrupulous companies or rogue employees of parking companies take unfair action, and that should be stopped, but employing parking companies is often the last resort of a frustrated business that is fed up with the aggro given by those who park without consideration.
To those who constantly say its not a problem, or you shouldnt pay etc post your address on here so that we can use your drive to park on and see what you say then!
I have no issue with landowners wanting to control their land. My gripe is with their use of PPCs whose SOLE motivation is extracting disproportionate sums of money from transgressors and who simply don't/won't listen to reason. It's an industry which is out of control, with the BPA and DVLA frequently passing the buck between them. For those who are in any doubt how shoddy many operators are have a look at the latest litany of their shortcomings - http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/search?upd...
It is completely disingenuous to say "there will be occasions" as if it's a rarity. On the contrary, it's endemic. Indeed I suggest it is central to the MO of one of the industry's biggest players. Yes there are people who regularly take the p*** but there has to be another way of dealing with them without overburdening everyone else. There used to be a principle of fair dealing for which this country had a deserved reputation. The private parking 'industry' does little or nothing to uphold it.
In many cases, clamping has simply been replaced with a different and less extreme form of extortion with firms often run by the same unsavoury people. A villain in a suit is still a villain. What concerns me is unless the industry starts policing itself properly the government may step in with a solution which will be even more unfriendly to the motorist. The state's track record in that area doesn't bode well.
It also doesn't help that the DVLA isn't a lot more proactive in banning offending companies from access to their records. A second strike should mean a much longer exclusion. A third strike should mean it is permanent. Of course that wouldn't have anything to do with it hurting one of their income streams would it?
What properly sticks in my craw is an OGD selling off my bloody data without my permission. In an age where there is almost hysterical protection of data by just about anyone, how is it possible that DVLA can sell my details to a third party? I'm sure there is legislation somewhere to say that they can but to have no say in the matter really really grates with me.
Made me really chuckle when the tabloids celebrated getting rid of clamping, only to be replaced by an identical outcome for those illegally parking. I don't have a problem with ANPR etc... As if you abide by the rules you're always ok.
I do, however, have a problem with an impossible appeals process. I got a PE fine for over staying at M25 services as Days Inn hotel reception forgot to upload my registration. Took forever to get cancelled as no human contact available by phone!
One controversial point for me though is why do so many think the disabled should get free or subsidised parking? As it is I have to park in a different time zone in Sainsbury's as there are over sixty (yes 60) spaces by the door. Never more than 4/5 parked in them either. If disabled people get motability, why should they get additional 'compensation' through free parking? Seriously, why?
I do, however, have a problem with an impossible appeals process. I got a PE fine for over staying at M25 services as Days Inn hotel reception forgot to upload my registration. Took forever to get cancelled as no human contact available by phone!
One controversial point for me though is why do so many think the disabled should get free or subsidised parking? As it is I have to park in a different time zone in Sainsbury's as there are over sixty (yes 60) spaces by the door. Never more than 4/5 parked in them either. If disabled people get motability, why should they get additional 'compensation' through free parking? Seriously, why?
The change in the law was not meant to specifically stop the parking companies charging what they charge it was to stop them being able to extort the money from motorists upfront to get the car back. People can now fight it out in court rather than being marched to a cash machine a 3am by a knuckle dragging thug in a clamping van
This all comes back to the point I keep making in these PPC threads, in that the root problem is brought to us all through the "war on the motorist" stance that just about all local councils have.
This 'war' is also historically backed up by government policy regarding 'green' behaviour and all that tax generating bull$hyte.
So with ever more restrictions on town centre parking, removal of parking spaces and generally forcing motorists out of towns through penalties, taxes and fares then of course it forces people to find what ever parking is left.
This gives rise to private land owners having the burden of sorting out the issue in what ever means they have available (usually PPCs) - as a result of the above it must be pointed!
So I have sympathy with the private land owners, but we should ALL be rallying against local authorities to sort out town centre parking issues so that they are convenient and free.
Why has it become acceptable that parking space should be something that we have to pay extra for when we already pay council tax and income taxes?
It is obvious the effect it is having on town centre businesses.
Instead of the war on the motorist why aren't we electing people in authority to promote the use of the private vehicles and provide accommodation for that in convenient parking?
This 'war' is also historically backed up by government policy regarding 'green' behaviour and all that tax generating bull$hyte.
So with ever more restrictions on town centre parking, removal of parking spaces and generally forcing motorists out of towns through penalties, taxes and fares then of course it forces people to find what ever parking is left.
This gives rise to private land owners having the burden of sorting out the issue in what ever means they have available (usually PPCs) - as a result of the above it must be pointed!
So I have sympathy with the private land owners, but we should ALL be rallying against local authorities to sort out town centre parking issues so that they are convenient and free.
Why has it become acceptable that parking space should be something that we have to pay extra for when we already pay council tax and income taxes?
It is obvious the effect it is having on town centre businesses.
Instead of the war on the motorist why aren't we electing people in authority to promote the use of the private vehicles and provide accommodation for that in convenient parking?
ging84 said:
The change in the law was not meant to specifically stop the parking companies charging what they charge it was to stop them being able to extort the money from motorists upfront to get the car back. People can now fight it out in court rather than being marched to a cash machine a 3am by a knuckle dragging thug in a clamping van
I supported and still support the changes but what it doesnt address is that tiny minority of people who would abuse the system. There is absolutely no sensible cost effective measure to deal with this category of people.A real life scenario of a complete anti social scourge tenantbin a block of flats with several cars taking up residents parking bays. This person has those cars registered with different names and to different addresses. Tickets are issued to these cars on an almost daily basis. He of course ignores the tickets and cars remain in other peoples bays indefinitely....
I am not even sure what one would go to court for if one was to seek legal redress. And even if such an action was successful, he would simply ignore the court order.
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